Amman Marka ILS 24
 

Was asked to conduct a full ILS procedure for RW 24, having left QAA VOR at 6000 ft. Good VFR conditions, given EAT, which was perfectly within our window.

Chose that as the FMA was set up to conduct the FMS/ILS coupled approach. At 6000 ft, and fully coupled in Vnav Lnav modes.

Outbound from VOR as published, called outbound.
Strated procedure turn, towards the OJ(D)-2. Still in Full FMS V Nav mode.

ATC scream that we are entering the DA, and should turn NOW.

Hand flew the remainder of the approach.

Any Amman guys pilots or ATC, who have the same experience.

Dont like being shouted at, even if I was in the wrong, the FMS procedure might be wrong also.

First time actually conducted FULL procedure.

Also when inbound from QAA, the track was almost on the dividing line for direct rather than needing a second course reversal, to get to the outbound leg, without busting the protected area.

Any suggestions how to avoid ear damage.....

Glf

Hi,

Used to be based there on another corporate aircraft and we ran in to the same problems in the beginning (although we disconnected and turned before we hit the area)... :)

The only reason (and solution) I could find is that the approach is designed under the old PANS-OPS and as such the entire procedure is restricted to 150 kts TAS :eek: Not great as we had to fly configured... But it solved the problem :ok:

Hope that helps!

Good luck,

Wiley

Can't honestly count how many times it happened to me.

Essentially the angst ridden call for an 'early' turn appears to be triggered by approaching an obscure, dusty military compound rather than any airspace or topographic problem.

Rob

Had my fair share of obscure instructions at OJAM also.....at the end of the day though, its a danger area, not restricted or prohibited.

GLF,

Agree with my Swedish friend Wiley. In fact it was he who pointed out to me that the approach was pans-ops and if you fly it at 150kts you won't have any further problems with ATC.

CBS

Well my friend , it happen a lot :) here in jordan :) but you should look carefully at the approach plate :) becuz you shouldn't exceed 5.5 DME from AMN VORDME when you turen to 156 degrees heading in order to make your final turn to establish the ILS approach . and my advise fly it without FMC . (raw data) ..

Cheers

Having done the full procedure a couple of times at Marka per the FMS myself I did not have any issues. Maybe I was just lucky and the area was not hot? :}

Nimer, you say the procedure turn should be within 5.5 DME AMN, but looking at the Jepp plate it states the turn should be initiated at 5.5 NM, in other words impossible to stay inside 5.5. If this is incorrect maybe local ATC should contact Jepps to have it revised. Not sure how one would be able to turn a jet within D5.5 and still be properly aligned for the intercept though.

Also, you mention being on a heading of 156 in the procedure turn. Maybe I misunderstand you, but can you please tell me your reasoning there. All I see is 106 outbound/286 inbound in the turn.

No note re speed
 

The FMS is designed to fly the approach as published, and will assume std flap speeds, (or as modified) so unless published difference 180 would be reaqsonable as might 160.

Thanks for all the various inputs....

Perhaps next time I will try 150 Kts, and await instructions to increase.

The OB is 106 and IB is 286. (I assume 156 was a typo.)


On the 06 Mouab 5 Osama 5 sids, the turn (1) is shown within 5nm, is this realistic.


glf

FlyTCI thats correct it's 106 and then 286 , 156 was a mistake .

And regarding the jepp plate , if it says to initiate the turn AT 5.5 DME that means there is somthn wrong with the plate . or the guy who was print it s drunk. :)

happy landings