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AUH's Missing Hold
Has anyone seem the "standard (non) published holds" ATC keeps talking about when going into abu dhabi?
ATC are getting the arse because EY crews dont know about them yet they are not mentioned on the Jep approach charts that were just updated on 7th April. Everyone is holding on different radials and getting vectors....would it not be easier to issue a NOTAM until they are clear on AUH approach charts? Just a thought! |
I hate to say this, cuz I missed it to, but there is a notam. Its buried away in the enroute section I think. But, it does seem kind of stupid to issue a hold on a waypoint that is not on your route of flight or on any chart.
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Think it may be an en-route hold. You can find it on the sectional en-route chart. Undrerstand that OMAA Radar/App were not consulted by UAE Centre on the changes and knew nothing about it....
Me think co-ordination between UAE and OMAA/OMDB could be improved. Not sure why it is like this... |
not mentioned on the Jep approach charts Sounds like your company ops problem to me, Jeps are not the authority in UAE, the AIP is. Pretty fed up with that ol 'But it's not on the Jeps' malarkey when there is a niggly grizzle from the operator. Local ANS ATC authorities and providers will make no reference to, or use JEPS (a wholly owned subsidiary of Boeing) in the UAE, and for that matter probably most of the FIR's! A reminder of some of the Jeppesen caveats: EXCEPT AS EXPRESSLY PROVIDED TO THE CONTRARY IN A WRITING BY JEPPESEN, THE SITES, THE SITE MATERIALS AND THE SERVICES (INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION THE CHART SERVICES AND ANY SOFTWARE OBTAINED THROUGH THE SITES) ARE PROVIDED ON AN "AS IS" AND "AS AVAILABLE" BASIS WITHOUT WARRANTIES OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED. WITHOUT LIMITING THE FOREGOING, JEPPESEN DOES NOT REPRESENT OR WARRANT THE DESIGN, ADEQUACY, ACCURACY, RELIABILITY, SAFETY, OR CONFORMANCE WITH STANDARDS OR REGULATIONS OF ANY FLIGHT PROCEDURE PRESCRIBED BY A GOVERNMENT AUTHORITY OR OTHER OUTSIDE SOURCE OR THAT THE SITES, THE SERVICES OR THE SITE MATERIALS (INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE CHARTS AND ANY VIEWING/PRINTING SOFTWARE OR OTHER SOFTWARE OBTAINED FROM THE SITE) ARE ACCURATE, COMPLETE, RELIABLE, CURRENT OR ERROR-FREE. |
Have a look in the ME(H/L) 7/8 supplement chart, you will find them there.
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XAKUM was causing so many problems the other night, I think they will re-name it XANAX... you would think after the 8th aircraft asked for the spelling and hold info ATC would be more accomodating just to save time on the frequency... "say again fix.... say again.... uhh.. can you spell that?" The guy was getting so pissy about it.
I found the published hold on the area chart, not the 7/8 ME... but it was so congested that it didn't have room to show the inbound course (317 i believe it ended up being) |
Hey foxsnapsh!t :p
Pretty fed up with that ol 'But it's not on the Jeps' malarkey when there is a niggly grizzle from the operator. As drivers, we are reminded daily we are at the bottom of the food chain, and as such we can only work with what we have available to us. In my opinion, as Pilots/Controllers we are side by side toiling at the coalface, and we have to help each other out at times to get the job done. If this issue is a known threat, then those in the know,know they have to do something about it. |
It's amazing how BAW, DLH, etc etc can fly to this 'mystery hold' without any problems. If we get 'pissy' it's because we get frustrated with having to spell/repeat ourselves so many times. With increased numbers into AD, people need to start getting used to going to the hold and not questioning why every time?
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i'm sure we dont want to go dwn the who is ot blame thing...we can all throw stines at each other, the simple facts are the main or only hold being used for AUH is not on the main airlines approach plates..its not ATC's fault, or indeed our as simple drivers..it does need fixing though.
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It's amazing how BAW, DLH, etc etc can fly to this 'mystery hold' without any problems. |
Originally Posted by MrMachfivepointfive
(Post 6400329)
BAW are very sensibly not using Jeppesen charts.
Back on topic, I'm not that familiar with the airspace but is there a suitable "published" hold that could be used instead of this semi-secret one? By "published" I mean on the plates that the crew would have handy, not in some reference tome that is inconvenient to use in flight. |
XAKUM
It was always on the SUPPL Enroute Jepp chart ME(HL)-7A...
And GADVO hold has been completely withdrawn A0191/11 A0991/10 A)OMAE D)H24 E)XAKUM RNAV5 HLDG PROC ESTABLISHED AS FLW: PSN XAKUM 245833N 0535222E INBD LEG : 117 DEG MAG TURN : RIGHT OUBD : 1 MIN SPEEDS : STD UPPER LIMIT : FL260 LOWER LIMIT : 5,000 FT NOTAMR Q)OMAE/QPHCS/I/BO/E/045/999/2500N05430E999 B)1103060620 Happy holdings... |
The whole concept that was introduced needs to be scrapped and started again. Consider that when the changes were brought in only half the atcos were trained to work the airspace, the other half (more critical) were not trained? Add to that, the changes were made by notam and not brought in through the normal airac cycle was even more moronic. A real feather in GCAA's cap.
EYZ Quite correct, it's the pilots and atcs that end up trying to sort the cr@p out. One wonders why atc management did not take the lead and walk next door and give a briefing? Too busy admiring their offices no doubt? |
shortfuel
I believe the inbound course is towards the NW Something like 300 or so:ok:
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stand corrected
I believe this hold has been designed for W inbound traffic into the UAE...so inbound course 117°.
My post is a copy-paste from GCAA official monthly NOTAM release (here). You're referring to ATBET (not sure of the spelling) hldg perhaps. |
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