Airline Management
 

Well said.:):):):)

It has become obvious in my years of flying, that aviation attracts the 'bottom of the barrel' management types. They all love saying they are in management at an airline because it sounds good to people who don't know any better but the fact of the matter is that it is not a desirable job for someone of ability and intelligence.

We are condemned to be led by people who have generally not been successful in their first choice of careers which says a great deal about their abilities.

Even moderately decent and smart human-beings eventually fall in line with the mentality at HQ. It is almost inevitable.

There's also the analogy that sh!t floats.
Fits management pretty well....they all started at the bottom and made it to the top!

Another ineffective, immature, naive, idiotic and uneducated rant at the EK management.

For the record, my reasons behind writing are not as simplistic as the moderator imagines nor am I cabin crew.

And for the record, I will not deny that there are some ineffective managers within the company. Perhaps some of the writers on this forum should apply for posts and let their genius benefit all the underlings.

The point most don't seem to get is the reality of today's world. Big companies, mean big money, means big power, means they get their way. Corporate fraud, corruption and ethical abstinance surround us all. Emirates may be worse than some but is better than many.

Ironically you all contribute to the system in which we live. And most are too stupid to find effective or collaborative ways to effect change. Industrial action, anonymous threats, petty sabotage, or plain wishful thinking based on unsubstantiated facts are the best tools that most can come up with. What a sad bunch. No wonder you are the drivers not the managers.

...gotta ask...managementmotion....do you own a goldfish?

I can't believe that I am actually going to answer a post to you MM, but why not. For starters, I am actually going to give you credit in a few things that you have said over several posts you have made now and in the past. For starters, many do make mean and scowling remarks towards EK management and some are supported while others are not. Secondly, You are spot on when you say now and said in the past that this business is purely run on economics. This past year, economics supported your argument. Third and finally, I can see as how you get frustrated and would dislike the pilot types due to the fact I have rarely see any legitimate responses to your posts. No wonder management hate pilot as much as pilots hate management.

Now, all the above being said, I must call you a bit ignorant in your latest rumbling which is the one I will address. When you state that we cannot find collaborative or effective ways to effect change, maybe that because such a system just simply doesn't exist at this airline. Let me give you an example. In the past you have said that instead of bitching here on PPrune, we should approach our managers and simply express our concerns. I will argue that we do indirectly do this every day and week through our ASR system. My example I will ask you to comment about is the continuous barrage of fatigue reports being filed (usually 2-5 per week depending) We have continued to approach management on this particular issue time and time again, through these reports, online fatigue analysis forms, at wash up meetings during training, and through bitching on PPrune. However, to date, the ASR system has never raised the risk level to even medium, we have seen no decrease in our working hours, and to be honest maybe even flying more. We now have to read fleets response to our cries for help on this subject in the weekly updates and not to be too mean or too blunt, but A.S.'s responses, although possibly good in intention, show that fleet management could give a crap about this and don't find fatigue an issue here at all. Certainly, it shows management are going to do nothing about it. Sure, its business, but fatigue will get people hurt if let ride long enough, and unfortunately, management have let this one go for nearly a year now in all ranks across the company but especially on pilots and even more so on cabin crew. So I ask you to tell me and all the others here this: WHAT ARE THE EFFECTIVE AND COLLABORATIVE WAYS WE CAN EFFECT CHANGE? HOW DO WE GET OUR POINT ACROSS TO OUR MANAGERS? I agree with you that this website is not the answer, however, it does show the others who are looking in what is going on in this airline and in this region. The problem is now, I just simply don't think our managers are in any position to actually help us. They are being pushed by the beans counters and we suffer the effects of that.

This is just one example of several I can think of. It is however I think the one that is of greatest consequence at the moment as it truly is running our lives, ruining our marriages, and effecting our health. Its the one that we have approached management time and time again about to no avail. So please, tell me how we are suppose to do something about our complaints. Tell me who we are suppose to go to when the one established system has done virtually nothing to help us. I'm sure myself and everyone on here would like to know.

In closing, just remember one thing. A pilot can tell you that you can run a jet engine at 110 percent for a while even with no maintenance. So can a mechanic, a flight attendant, a cadet, and even a manager. What none of them can tell you is when it will fail. The only known fact that cannot be argued is that it WILL FAIL in a matter of time. Our managers at EK are running, and have been running this airline at 110 percent, with arguably negative maintenance for a long time now. Like you said, economics says they can. I just hope I don't wake up in the morning and see an EK tail on the news like I saw Air India this morning. It will truly be a sad day indeed, but one that you in management could have at least attempted to prevent even though economics said you could do as you wished. The day, I fear, is nearer than all of us want to admit. :bored:

Here, here, a747jb!
:D

This post is pretty much identical to the european airline i work for. Same things same problems. September 11 changed this industry dramatically.
It is now sadly beancounters that the final saying.
We have in our airline a union that is struggling to keep up with the mad cost saving initiatives coming from management.
I am afraid that the only thing that can turn this negative spiral around is an accident severe enough to get the authorities involved.
Sadly the air India crash might shed some light on the abuse that is going on. Fatigue is the thing that will make your day go bad. Then try at the same time raise a family with all the hard work that is:ouch:

Me ?? Paranoid.......Never !!
 

Chill out MM !!

EK management was not mentioned in any of the posts prior to yours. The first few posts seemed to be referring to airline management in general, i.e. all airlines.

Are you feeling a little persecuted and unloved old boy?

At least you come across as a well balanced individual - with a chip on BOTH shoulders !

I would suggest that you guys ignore MM.

History repeats.

Oz

Quote "It has become obvious in my years of flying, that aviation attracts the 'bottom of the barrel' management types. They all love saying they are in management at an airline because it sounds good to people who don't know any better but the fact of the matter is that it is not a desirable job for someone of ability and intelligence.????" (Neither is being a pilot!)

Is there an antithesis to Mensa ? Some sort of idiot group who is perhaps looking for a leader to validate their unbalanced views and lend weight to their sweeping statements? :ugh:

MM,

Just a few thoughts on your last post:

In an earlier post, you said "I will ignore the less couth as it merely indicates the measure of the man."
May we measure you by the same standard? In one post alone, you have referred to the pilots as "ineffective, immature, naive, idiotic and uneducated" as well as " most are too stupid".
You do neither your position, nor your argument, any favours by resorting to statements like that.

In this post you refer to our "anonymous threats", and yet in several posts you have said " Don't bite the hand that feeds. Undoubtably it will have undesired repercusions" and "P.S. Word of advice: Don't bite the hand that feeds" and "But you cannot compete with the company in the hardball arena".

You mention that "The point most don't seem to get is the reality of today's world. Big companies, mean big money, means big power, means they get their way". Does the knowledge of this unfortunate fact make it right? You say that we are " too stupid to find effective or collaborative ways to effect change". Where does that leave you, M? At least we're trying, and as Edmund Burke said "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. "

Finally "No wonder you are the drivers not the managers".
Well, you may be a manager, but not necessarily a good one.

I honestly think you should try a little harder. "Raise the bar", so to speak.

SM

Ps: It's "abstinence", not "abstinance".

I am sure that many airline pilots have advanced degrees if not even Doctorates. In my early career this was a prerequisite for hire at all major carriers.

I fell sad that you feel that you are no more than just a driver. I learned long ago that to be a good airline pilot you have to be a great manager.

okay ... I reply anyway.
 

Got a masters in aerospace engineering (TU Berlin) and another one in air transport management (CU London). Still: The syllabus was nothing like what Ms. surgeon had to go through. And believe me... Being a great airline pilot has as much to do with being a great manager as a match stick can be compared with a supernova (Douglas Adams).
But, I agree: That doesn't mean all management pukes we work for a great.

Hmm...guess I should have never given up my career as a surgeon. Funny you should mention DA here is one my wife told me when I moved to the Middle East. She is a Pulmonologist "He was a thinker, a speculative philospher...or, as his wife put it an idiot"

I think every EK ultra long haul pilot will need a quick response para medic team and then a heart surgeon wife to stent or bypass or transplant him!
Certainly the max duty min rest rosters have a massive amount of premature mortality working away compounding major medical event risks.
Thus it was proved at Gf as it will be even sooner in EK.