The main difference
 

The main difference between long haul and short haul is that you have to perform when your body does not want to. In others words if you need to be 100 % on the short haul you will suffer badly on the long haul.

DEC or not.

Well, that would be one of the differences but I would suggest that there are more challenges than that. It really is impossible to compare the radar enviroment in Europe, whith VHF comms everywhere, to a (say) procedural RNAV approach into Addis. To say nothing of the fun on the ground once you get there.

Europe has its own challenges but they are completely different to the ones we face on a day to day basis on the EK network. You don't need to be God's gift to aviation but it does take time to adapt.

Just a few comments on the "baby-sitting" issue.

A DEC with 20 years airline experience and 10 years as captain will (almost) always be a better overall commander than an F/O with 10 years total airline experience.

Granted, the cosmetics of company SOP's and certain local knowledge will be to the F/O's advantage in comparison with the new DEC, but overall, the old guy will be the more suitable Commander, simply because he's more experienced.

DECs are the future, accept it. For financial reasons as someone rightly illustrated, but also because it makes sense to recruit the necessary overall experience to a growing company. You don't see doctors applying for nurses jobs.

Those that see themselves as "baby-sitters", I think your comments reflect on your lack of suitability as future Commanders. Sadly.

incoming :}

I think Fastman has a valid point

Looks like he did!:)

Gents, when was the last time you were concerned or even aware of the seniority and grade of the flight attendants. If one of the flight attendants was junior but held a higher position than one of their co-workers it is unlikely that I would even notice. On the occasions where I did notice I certainly would not give it much thought. All I am concerned with is do I have the required crew to do the job. That is exactly how our managers look at us. As long as the job is getting done as cheaply as possible they will be happy. Individual issues do not matter.

7

NO DEC
 

Just attended the recurrent GS. They said the hiring of DEC was not true and the company has stopped hiring of DECs.

What's the difference between information from pprune and information from any EK body?

The one is a rumor, the other a blatant lie.

I actually don't know anything about the DEC stuff, but please, information out of a GS?????

To cite a fellow poster on another thread: I have not been lied to as many times in my previous life as in the very few years at EK. They pretend it's cultural, but extremely well duplicated by "western" spit-bowl-holders.

Regarding DECs suitability.

Just to clarify, my generalization refers to captains that have been trained in normal, well-renowned flying organizations and as such have had their command aptitude put to the test.

Naturally guys from less than desirable backgrounds should not make the cut, and maybe that's where airlines fail in the selection procedures. I maintain the notion that experience in normal airline operations counts in the left seat, and that's why DECs are here to stay.

The DEC thing is no longer an issue. The fellas that joined post 2003 knew all about them before joining. In fact they had to scroll down below the DEC info to find the FO info on the emirates careers website. So knowing that EK hired DECs and what this would mean they still decided EK was the right place for them.

The Fos that joined prior to 2003 were shafted and lied to by the company, and really are the only people that have a real gripe with the DEC issue.

the Don

Everybody that joined prior to the announcement of DECs in 2003 had now had a chance of a command course. As Don says, the situation is not good, and not right, but it is not a secret either. The company has hired and will continue to hire DECs to meet their needs. It isn't going to change.

Agreed that those who joined post '03 have always known about the DEC program, but as with everything at Ek the goalposts were continually shifted. Initially it was only for those with substantial wide body command time on an Ek type aircraft. Then when the applicants that were eligible dried up the requirements were reduced until (as mentioned by one previous poster), there were candidates accepted from the left seat of narrow body aircraft who had never ventured outside Europe.

Those from my previous employer who joined Ek up to 18 months after I did came in as DEC's where as that opportunity was denied to me as the criteria were higher when I applied. Fortuitous, yes, but fair?

Pre '03 upgrade chances
 

edited at the request of another

Positively correct.

Agree.

Not only that, but suitable for the RHS job as well.

IF I was running EK, I would hire Captains to be Captains, and First Officers to be First Officers...with the proviso that the latter category might be upgraded, if I felt like it.
SQ had the right idea, many years ago.

At SQ years ago, locals had a well defined career path.
Expats?
You were hired for a specific FD position, period...with a very few exceptions.
When locals were due for Command training, their complete files were checked, especially the monthly fitness report filed by each line Captain they had flown with, that past month.
Too many black marks?
Rejected for either upgrade to larger equipment, or upgrade to command.
SK (Charlie) Chan, the DFO at the time, ran a tight ship, and his policies kept First Officers on a short tether.

A wise precaution, in my view.

411A, do you own a goldfish?

Guess a few guys here (maybe) new to the PP forum, or otherwise unfamiliar with 411A's role as "Winder-Up-in-Chief", in which case serves you right for taking the bait.

However, for the more observant, it must be said that there is often a germ of truth in a lot of his (obviously) more unpopular observations:ok:.

What I say is-"To thine own self be true"-if you are going to be fit for the left seat, (ability, attitude, preparation, etc, etc.), nothing will stop you. Fairly simple, isn't it?

p.s F/O once said to me, "never trust a Captain!". (in jest, of course). Replied back -"Agree absolutely; Never trust anyone!":)