Legality of Missed approach considerations
 

I was suprised to see how quickly the interesting thread on the "Correct missed approach path to be flown after a visual approach?" was closed.
It was evident that pilot opinions were varied as to the safe and legal aspects and this subject IMHO needed sorting.
Whilst I nolonger have to do missed approaches...being retired...I favoured the published missed approach as it should keep me clear of hitting anything and avoid any noise monitoring posts.
I often felt nice cooperative pilots were often Suckered into a visual by ATC and pilots would often violate the AIDS read out tape and cause passengers to become concerned trying to accommodate late ATC requests for runway changes.
Uk pilots especially ex military would happily accept a night visual if offered and sometimes request it...the results were sometimes a next day office visit...the "Black hole" night visual to Bahrain runway 12 has caused at least three aircraft to crash...it seemed such a waste of crews and passengers when the conditions were next to calm and the ILS localiser and glide path were fully servicable and available on 30.
Anyway something to think about and possibly discuss with the trainers.

Missed App
 

IF you are cleared for a visual approach, and go around, you are not legally permited to do any missed approach procedure, the correct procedure is to fly a visual pattern @ 1500' either left of right depending on what's published on the AIP for that runway. If you can't do that in the event of a go around, DO NOT accept the visual approach. You should continue on the instrument app procedure and fly the published missed.

It was closed because the thread was about JFK, nothing to do with the Middle East!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

EGGW

And the 3 major Airlines in the ME fly to JFK, so everybody benefits from this interesting thread, getting valuable information from various sources so what"s the point closing it. Thanks for the clarification Kenny on the closed thread...The Capt..:ok:

Togaluck. I was once in a simulator session run by an ex Easyjet know it all Check Captain who is now in standards role in the Middle East and was failed because I was given an ILS onto one runway with a break to the right for a visual approach onto another runway about 40 degreees offset, Zurich from memory. He told me to go around just to see what I would do, so I asked for radar vectors and my ears are still ringing because he said I should have tracked back over and picked up the missed approach from the other runway. I asked an ATC tower controller some time later and of course it is the last thing they would want you to do because they could have cleared an aircraft for take off on this runway once they could see that you were tracking for the other runway visually.

Well, it depends, if the clearance was a "clear for the ILS rwy XX, CIRCLE TO LAND rwy XY" then yes, that is the correct procedure to fly RWY XX missed appch, but if you are in the ILS for another runway and they clear you for the VISUAL XY, it's not the same.... you were right about it, even if you started the ILS rwy XX. You can trust you ATC friend, I mean, he should know right? as opposed to that know it all easyjet guy.

Once cleared for a visual approach, the instrument procedure is finished and no longer applicable. That applies to the missed approach also.

It really is that simple.

Well ..... I started the thread and I am still a bit in the dark. I fly for a ME carrier hence the posting on this thread. The situation in JFK that we encounter on a daily basis is that we are cleared for a visual approach to 31L from radar vectors. the ILS is radiating but we are not cleared for an ils. I know for a fact that most crews brief and plan the GA based on the ILS GA.I dont think this is right. ATC does not offer instructons prior to GA. Maybe they would if queried.

Just wondered on your thoughts. I emphasise that this is going on EVERY DAY - hence the interest, and the fact that 2 guys just lost their jobs for a F$$$D UP GA. (A bit different I know but you get the drift)

All the best out there!!

Seems to me you should ask Fleet or Training Dept for an official company line on this.

FAA AIMS on visual approaches on an IFR flight plan
 

http://www.faa.gov/airports_airtraff...html#WV8c8ROBE

pretty much what it says is that ATC will give you or you should ask for alternate missed approach instructions.

in a real life scenario, if you go around they will immidiately give you vectors most likely rwy heading (in JFK) and reposition you for a second one.

if you want to play strictly by the book ... everytime they clear you for a visual you should ask them for missed app instructions.

Another link explaining that ther is NO missed approach segment in a visual approach for a A/C on an IFR flight plan.

http://www.faa.gov/airports_airtraff...7/atc0704.html

Another link that talk about what the "cleared for the visual" implies
 

That's exactly what happens. Tower will give you a heading and an altitude and then hand you back to Approach.

As already stated,

Cleared to circle and cleared for a visual are not the same.

If cleared to circle - transition as best you can back onto the
missed approach procedure that belongs to your originally cleared
instrument approach.

If cleared for a visual - then you are to REMAIN visual, and fly a visual
pattern, either left or right, as appropriate for the airport.

Any North American tower, will have a new heading and altitude in
your lap before you even get the gear in the bay, if they don't want
you flying a pattern on a visual miss.

On a side note for all NY airports. If by some very bad luck you go
no comm on a visual miss in NY. Then you must fly a visual pattern.
Do not go any higher than 1500 AGL and keep the pattern as close
as possible to the runway. ATC will move all your conflicts.

excellent-that clears it up.. I did ask fleet and training but I guess they are too busy firing people.
thanks for all the replys.

Ok guy/ ladies, for all of you who keep stating that "when cleared for a visual, then fly the missed approach with a visual pattern..." - What happens if you are base and turning final visually and you now find yourself in IMC conditions?

Our company discourages visual approaches, though, in the event that you do a visual approach, we are required to establish what ATC want in the event of a go-around.

Simple.

LR, I think most would say "...then WTF were you doing accepting a visual approach in such conditions?" If you're a pilot with the Middle East's largest airline who finds himself in such a situation after accepting a (gasp!) visual approach, you'd do well to call the wife immediately and have her get the maid to iron your best white shirt so you look your best for the tea and bikkies morning you'll be invited to upon arrival back at base.

Seriously? US ATC will give you an appropriate heading and altitude whatever the conditions, and if you find them unacceptable, tell them.

This debate and all the differing answers people have come up with might give some hint as to why management adhere to the KISS model and insist we fly an instrument approach when one is available.

777-200lr
 

Are you SERIOUS??

do you HONESTLY think that ATC would clear you for an approach, if they in any way thought that you could not continue such app or go around and remain visual????
just for your info, there are parameters called "MINIMA" that ATC and pilots use to evaluate if a visual is safe and legal or not. (in the US is 3 statute miles visibility and 1000 ft ceiling).

I honestly think there is no such thing as a "dumb" question, really, but it's just common sense! I guess is the least common of all senses.
It just shocks me that a pilot flying a 777-200LR HEAVY WIDEBODY aircraft, would ask what to do if suddenly you encountered IMC.

But, IF you ever find yourself in that specific situation. (common sense)
TELL ATC!! I'm sure they would be happy to give you vectors and even give you a new clearence to shoot another approach in IMC.

Happy flying mate.