They were probably asked to resign for not having thier ties on during the incident or hats on afterwards...

It's all about image than substance at EK, always has been. It's a nasty corrosive culture we have here of sycophantic wannabie 'managers' enforcing the policies of control from above.

Most of us knew we were going to have an incident. Unfortunately this will not be the last. Thankfully this time no one was hurt, except that is for the crew involved.

Maroon.....statiscally what you say is true,but its only statistics.Thats all.

The investigation will continue.
 

Gents,

The pilots can be pressured to resign, but this is a major accident and will be investigated accordingly.

If two competent pilots committed such a serious error, while two more competent pilots were observing from the jumpseats, certainly someone will want to know how and why. Maybe the regulators, maybe the traveling public, maybe the training or safety departments at Emirates.

The pilots can resign, the company can duck and cover, Airbus can claim they build a safe aircraft, but this investigation will continue.

If it was a fatigue related error, maybe some changes need to be made, maybe ULR flying and only 12 days off in a month is an incompatible mixture that should be handled with the utmost care?

This is a systemic error despite what happened on this particular flight. One would assume no-one set out to deliberately do anything dangerous.

There have been several incidents of takeoffs with erroneous figures.
I understand the LOSA audit conducted recently criticised the airline for the amount of disturbances in the flight deck prior to pushback. Little, if anything has been done about this.
The amount of complaints about crew rest on the A340 are also telling.
Performance training was taken away from pilots and handed to engineers. There is a difference in perspective. The engineers tell you how to get it right but the pilots tell you how to detect it may be wrong.

I believe there will be an "internal board of enquiry". Odd to make it internal given that this problem keeps happening. I believe some of the blame will probably be allocated a bit higher than the flightcrew.

Clearly the actual error made on this flight is known so why has it not been promulgated internally. It might prevent a similar incident occuring.

I don't think the resignations are over....

Ed the talking horse might soon be Ed the walking horse.:E

Why just Ed, it happened on TCAS's watch... Now both of those going... that would be better than a profit share.

Then there is AAR, ultimately the head of flt ops... he wanted the responsibility, now he should have the accountability.

Safety is a culture. Ours is less concerned with safety than the appearance of being concerned with safety... we continue to be reactive and not proactive and we suffer the consequences.

Djehennah will freeze over before any local (AAR is considered as such) has to assume any kind of accountability or responsibility around the ME if something turns ugly.
That's what they hire expats for, not only to do the job, but just as much to do the walk. AS watch out!

I said it on another thread: Two men are enough in the cockpit preparation phase. The augmenting chaps need a SEAT to get out of the way of active crew, cabin crew, ground crew, mechanics and finally boarding passengers (this in itself sounds enough of a disturbance already ....). Once on taxi, and ONLY on request of the active crew, one or two can be present on flight deck as a back-up.
This brings back the whole issue of seats for augmenting crew, and they obviously need to be right behind the cockpit, as to be able to call in the guys if deemed needed in the T/O and Ldg phases (I won't get into the embarrassing and safety compromising issue of crew bunk placement ....)

It seems that not even safety can beat greed around here.:yuk:

"nice" to see the blame is still culture alive and well:ugh:

very sad.It can happen with everybody.

A link to Kieran Daly's blog on the subject. Interesting reading about the "resigned" issue!

Pilots in Emirates A340-500 Melbourne near-disaster "resign" - Unusual Attitude

EGGW

i read ,very disturbing if it's really happening this way.

I'd like to express my sympathy for the crew members concerned. It is appalling that Emirates as an Airline is putting the blame on them. The DFO (joke) should be sticking up for his crews and working to prevent a repetition. Blame Culture just ensures that no-one will give a heads -up when they come across another likely problem.

I hope other Emirates pilots are supporting this crew in some way although I guess it won't be public.:hmm:

Are you kidding ??? Someone said 2246 EK pilots are, as we speak , Thanking God it didn't happen to them !!
At least it's making 2 poolies happy.
So they screwed up !! Don't all airlines do at one point or another ??
Unless it was a clear and conscious decision to disregard SOp's, this matter needs to be looked into very seriously. Axing the guys won't change a thing. Boy am I glad I'm not working in this joint.
As to support from colleagues...................life must look very lonely all of a sudden for these poor chaps. A bit llike farting in a crowded elevator
You don't particularly attract sympathy.

Legal Insurance...
 

What is apparent from this incident was that the guys were initially on their own.

What could be very helpful in such incidences is either some kind of legal insurance or an independent SOS number we can use to access a local lawyer to look after our own interests. BALPA have such a scheme and I know there will be problems implementing such a scheme here but surely it is worth a try.

Perhaps it could be offered as an add on and administered through LIPS?

These pilots were more than likely still in shock when they were answering questions, answers that would have direct legal ramifications. They should have had an independent lawyer present not one provided by EK (if there was one at all).

Here's what Kieran wrote in his blog:
Wonder if his 'contact' got his information from PPRuNe because there's still no internal or external statement from the company and the guys are still showing active on the roster.

Brokenenglish

You said the same thing in post #63 with regard to the crew rosters. I think you might be looking at the augmenting crew rather than the primary crew. Go to Crew rosters (old), Duty, type RR.

SM

Snake man

Yes I did mention it in post #63, that is why I wrote still in my post 2 days later.

RR means removed from the roster usually temporarily, RG means resignation. Look at the rosters of the operating crew and you will find that their RR phase ends later this month and they are both scheduled to return to the roster for normal duties.

The rumours of resignations on the two threads are not supported by these facts. In fact it's mentioned on the other thread that the press are quoting PPRuNe as the source of the resignation stories.

Maybe we should wait for some official comment. I'm not saying that they haven't resigned, but at the moment the evidence doesn't support that view.

Brokenenglish..

Post # 63 on the 1st April you said: "Fact is both guys are still on the roster and both scheduled to operate flight(s) later this month."

SM

And so it was, and still is in the case of one of the crew, the other has been rescheduled for other normal duties.

Taken from here

Emirates pilots resign after Melbourne Airport incident