What are my chance
G'day Guys
Nice forum and I enjoying lots of people trying to inform me and make me more aware of what I just about to do this year I live in Australia im 34 now... got Degree in Computer science and math ... thinking of going to Oxford Air Training school... This is the course http://www.oxfordaviation.net/air_appfo.htm I need advice from pilots as to 1- What are my chances of getting a job after this course in the middle east.... If so, what types of job would I be able to get after such course.. (please specify as in will I be able to fly 737-400 or I have to have some experience flying smaller planes before that) 2- Is it worth contacting LCC in the region and try to secure a job before I start the course... 3- Will the B.Sc in computer Science will ever help say when I start applying for bigger airlines.. Thanks in advance and appreciate any constructive answer Sam West Australia |
Sorry mate.......but you'll need to improve your level 2 before anything else:ok:;)
VTSP chinny |
SamAustralia,
If you are going to spend the 70k pounds on the APP course, you might aswell try and find work in Europe, things are pretty good job wise for them right now.BA comes here to get there cadets occasionally. If you are going to spend the money on a JAA licence I'm guessing you have EU citizenship ? otherwise its pointless spending the cash on a JAA licence, especially the APP. There are alot more oppurtinities in europe than Australia. If you want to work in the ME, its possible if you know the right people as a low hour expat, otherwise you will need some experience. PM me if you want more details, was in a similar position not so long ago.... |
Those programs that train you from scratch up to type rating and hours on type actually work. Then, you ethics will start playing when you start questioning wether all that money was worth it or not. There are various programs like that now a days. They are the "proper version" of what some years ago would be a simple conversation with a potential employer who would say: "Get a type rating and call me". Sometimes they hired you as they said... and sometimes they didn't even remember you.
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To attempt to give you some direct answers-
1- Not great. Most ME carriers only employ experienced pilots (EK, 4000hrs + jet time as an example). You might check out the likes of Jazerah or Air Arabia, but my feeling is you'll need some time elsewhere first. I assume you are of an Arab nationality? That won't hurt. 2- No. They employ Pilots, not Wannabe pilots. Achieve their minimum requirements before applying. 3- As an indicator of your education and ability to study,yes. But as an actual qualification, no. Out of interest, why have you chosen a UK based school? Training is much cheaper in Australia, and the GA work scene there is pretty good. |
Why the hell are you thinking of joining these suffering community?
Listen to me stay away from aviation ..it's not worth it anymore...and it will get worst and worst.. Find a normal job...have a normal and happy life... and if you really like flying do it as a hobby , join an aeroclub, do some aerobatics..what ever but don't do the error of following your passion and try get into this job. Do you really think that waking up when normal people goes to sleep, spending up to 17 hours closed in 2 cubic meters of pressurized tube avoiding weather with that feeling hidden deep inside you that anytime something can get screwed and may be you are in the middle of nowhere. is so much fun...? No it is not... and you will not be paid enough for that. |
I agree with furbpilot, and also you are in Australia why the hell not learn and get a job there you are crazy to leave it.
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Out of interest, why have you chosen a UK based school? Training is much cheaper in Australia, and the GA work scene there is pretty good. |
Don't listen to these grumps mate.Follow your dreams and aim for the sky.Been in the game for over a decade and haven't regreted it for a minute.There isn't a single proffession I can think of that makes more cash then a legacy/major airline Pilot.Cousin is a Dr. and makes half my wage at 2 yrs younger(although in about 5 years he'll be on about the equal salary as I which then will increase up to about 400k for him with time..long time, mind you he'll be an old fart by that time and I won't be too far behind anyway).I've been to and seen places and things that my friends and family can only dream of and I still have a good 2 decades in me, so it ain't over yet.:ok:
A view of blood/guts/nurses surely can't be better then clouds/buttons/FA's(with an acception to QF) |
"with an acception to QF F/As" Haha :D One of the few things you said that made sense! Love it
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He's from Perth, so must be a pom... Out of interest, why have you chosen a UK based school? Training is much cheaper in Australia, and the GA work scene there is pretty good. QFcaptain, thanks mate, check your inbox. Wizofoz thanks a lot mate |
Bankstown
Bankstown in Sydney has many flying schools from 0 to ATPL...They charge lesser than Oxford and are of an equal standard...
Try there... Cheers! |
QFcaptain..get real..my plumber makes three times the money that I make...he buys an apartment a year.. There is plenty of job out there that may be don't have the "sex appeal" of flying but that pays much better...and like you to spend wiyh your family every weekend.. You don't know probably because you were to busy flying and looking in the mirror thinking .." ooohhh I'm so cool in this uniform..." all this years , thinking you are the king of the skyes...and it is cause of people like you that we get screwed so easily....
And by the way...to be attracted by that "sex appeal" you either have to be a maniac (...and how many I met..) or blind... Flying was a good job when it was not massified and you really needed guts and a lot more knowledge and culture ( are you able to use a sextant..). You got loads of money and could retire quite soon...before your health started to deteriorate.. I see people here getting old at the speed of light... think Einstein was wrong! |
QFcaptain, are you Sponge Bob's brother?
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furb,
So...you hate everything about what you do for a living, yet continue to do it, apparently to the detriment of your family? |
Furb,
First of all I never said that we get payed enough mate.It could be better but I do stand by my comment about the salary being better then most other jobs.From the people I know, I don't know any other proffessional that makes more than I do so I don't know where you work and how much you make but I did say legacy/major airlines.I'm refering to age vs salary so lets say when a kid starts training to be a pilot at 21 and gets their first airline gig at 26. Who makes more then 100k at 26years old?please tell me.Captain by 35 approx so that puts them on 150k+ or at QF(this may take longer) well over 200k and upwards.Although Oz does have some of the lowest Pilot salaries appart from QF being half decent but still 250k+ isn't so bad compared to to a lawyer or a dr and let's not forget a potential 200k+ a VB in the long term.So anyway the point is get outa here asap! As for plumbers/brickies etc., Australia is the ONLY country on the planet where a tradey makes more then a f****ing doctor! "equality" ey! more like discouraging education:ugh:. Airline Pilots in 90% of the world are considered the higher earning proffessionals especially in Asia and EU and the respect comes with that. It's a high earning proffession, that's fact. It could be much better in regards to T&C, that's fact. cheers qfskip :cool: |
Australia is the ONLY country on the planet where a tradey makes more then a f****ing doctor! "equality" ey! more like discouraging education:ugh:. Its disgusting and its the result of bad immigration policy and unions !! In Japan pilots and lawyers have a high ranking in the society .. here we have plumbers and tilers |
What is wrong with plumbers or immigrants ? Aren't you willing to migrate ?
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If you have to work everyday, then you are in wrong profession!
Flying is all about passion and I dont give a damn how small the space is or what time I wake up. I dont care how much money I make or what respect I earn! As long as I am flying, I will never have to work a single day of my life. I will enjoy my life! Therefore, if you feel you are not "normal" in the society or cant give time to your family on the weekends, you are in the wrong profession. Regards Edit:
Originally Posted by frijmagnit
you also sound like a typical whingeing expat indian.
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Very well said Aatif. I couldn't agree more with you.
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Aatif
You know I think that the reason I'm getting badly payd.. is because there is people like you going around screaming how much they love flying. By your age and location I wouldn't be surprised if you were a local guy. Well lucky you..man while I'm here with no rights and paid like a european truck driver you get your nice extra allowances and a real 100% salary pension...on my back. Well if you love flying so much why don't you send a letter to management and tell them you want to fly for free because it is such a passion for you ..right? And by the way I'd like to be a fly in the cockpit if one day you'll find yourself in some big ****...I mean big... you know ... the one that from time to time happens....I want to see your smiling happy face....with the oxigen mask on it...in that moment.. |
Originally Posted by furbpilot
Aatif
You know I think that the reason I'm getting badly payd.. is because there is people like you going around screaming how much they love flying. By your age and location I wouldn't be surprised if you were a local guy. Well lucky you..man while I'm here with no rights and paid like a european truck driver you get your nice extra allowances and a real 100% salary pension...on my back. Well if you love flying so much why don't you send a letter to management and tell them you want to fly for free because it is such a passion for you ..right? And by the way I'd like to be a fly in the cockpit if one day you'll find yourself in some big ****...I mean big... you know ... you know the one that from time time happens....I want to see your smiling happy face....with the oxigen mask on it...in that moment. I hate going off-topic in this thread. Here's my suggestion to SamAustralia: Why dont you have a look at schools in Archerfield, Brisbane. AAA/RQAC (Royal Queensland Aero Club) is a great school for 0-ATPL ground/flying training. Good luck with your endeavours in Aviation and I honestly hope you join this profession for your passion as you can realise, not everyone's happy here. Regards |
Well SamAustrailia i advise you to check Basair Aviation College.It is Located at Banks town.I m also joining Basair for my training .
And follow your dream if Flying really is your dream.If u want any information Please Don't hesitate PM me and i really help you. |
Hello Tahir
I've been to Basair, trust me not very organized/professional. Plus, Bankstown airport has a lot of issues lately. I'd suggest looking somewhere in Brisbane if you have not joined already. Regards. |
By your age and location I wouldn't be surprised if you were a local guy. Well lucky you..man while I'm here with no rights and paid like a european truck driver you get your nice extra allowances and a real 100% salary pension...on my back. Who forced you to move over there ? Who's forcing you to stay being so badly treated ? You should call your embassy, they may offer you a one way ticket out ! |
For SamAustralia
because the course that they do have at Oxford is completed course and take you all the way to airline or Airline ready let me say with their 40hrs B737 simulator included at the end of the course. Now, having a type rating is what would "legally" mean to be airline ready (and still you would have restrictions before completing line training). Consider that a type rating alone is about 20.000 euros now a days. For the 70 grand that you pay a flight school, what you get is CPL+ME+IR plus frozen ATPL, and an MCC. Your frozen ATPL would be "activated" into ATPL, once you complete 1500 hours and an flight exam (if im not wrong). And only then you would be able to be a captain. |
Be careful with that. Those 40hrs are part of the MCC course, and that's not a type rating. They can be done in a 737, a320... even on the smallest multi crew airplane sim like say a B1900c. MCC stands for Multiple Crew Cooperation, and according to JAR, is the requisite for operating any airplane that requires 2 or more pilots. Added to an Instrument Rating, is what you need prior to getting a type rating. Now, having a type rating is what would "legally" mean to be airline ready (and still you would have restrictions before completing line training). Consider that a type rating alone is about 20.000 euros now a days. For the 70 grand that you pay a flight school, what you get is CPL+ME+IR plus frozen ATPL, and an MCC. Your frozen ATPL would be "activated" into ATPL, once you complete 1500 hours and an flight exam (if im not wrong). And only then you would be able to be a captain. Yes I know that not type rating, I though they were few weeks agoo.. but oh well we all learn thats why I come here to talk to people who know better than me, who been through it and know how it feels... so yeah I actually changed my mind and will do my study here in West Australia Reason are.. A- Financially AUS $ = 0.91C American Instead of spending 80k Pounds i will spend about 50KAUS(45kUS) that is about 60% less... Plus I have my online business which I can operate while I study that will give me a return of about lets say 50% of the course cost ... I do my course at the Royal Aero Club of WA http://www.racwa.asn.au/ Will do Aviation diploma for 1 year that should get me a CPL at the end... after that I will do the ME CIR ( about 16k AUS) and Night rating(about 4k) Course Info are here http://www.racwa.asn.au/getfile.aspx...3&ObjectID=526 Course pricing here http://www.racwa.asn.au/getfile.aspx...3&ObjectID=526 Total is 50+16+4= 70k at the same time I will have passive income from my online business for about 35-40k.. Tahir, I will stay here in Sunny WA (NO RENT COST) try to do the course with minimum cost.. so I could ahve more money when I finish the course.. QFcaptain Thanks man... |
Truth is seldomly pleasant...sorry... keep discovering.
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34 years old and considering a career in aviation? Either you are independently wealthy or you need your head examined, haha.
My advice..... get into one of a number of different professions and do your flying on the side. You will have more fun that way, be paid better and live 10 years longer. |
34 years old and considering a career in aviation? Either you are independently wealthy or you need your head examined, haha. independently wealthy? or you need your head examined, haha. My advice..... get into one of a number of different professions and do your flying on the side. You will have more fun that way, be paid better and live 10 years longer. Having said that.. please explain to me why you think so its too late for 34? |
34 isn't too late. You're just behind the "normal" curve. The way the business is these days, "normal" doesn't exist.
IMO, just be prepared to either skyrocket to the top of a seniority list or dwell at the bottom forever. You can't tell if you've made the proper career moves until you retire. Good luck. TC |
Well Sam I wrote that just as a reality check. Hopefully things will progress faster for you but when I started out it took me an awfully long time to make a decent wage. First 5 years pathetic, next 5 livable, next 5 got out of debt, next 5 actually saved a little. That would put you at 54 years old.
The trend is for lower wages, more work and degraded T&C's over time. Knowing what I know now, I would not start a flying career at 34, unless I knew I could slot into an airline quickly with my career progression pretty much assured. (aside from things such as medical issues, world-wide economic issues, etc) If you really want it.... go for it. I just think its better to start something with eyes wide open so when those peaks and valleys arrive in your career you will be better prepared. Seniority is everything ! It dictates aircraft type, rosters, salary.... which directly affect the important aspects of your life, lifestyle and family. I will say this, if money IS one of your prime motivators (does not appear to be for you), then you will be disappointed. |
Well,I agree with AA717driver 34 is not too late.I Know a person who did his training in the age of 39 and did it from Pakistan and now he is in Major Airline.So i think as u are in Australia.You can get job after your training as a commuter or charter pilot in AU.
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SamAustralia,
Was on course here with a guy of similar age to you. Had a interview before he even finished his course and is now accepted on to the 737. He was modular. Left a well paying stable job and took a gamble. He could not be happier. However this was in JAA land. Australia is not exactly the land of oppurtunity for pilots. If you have a EU passport then I would say definatly look into it. If you will be quite happy as a instructor in Aus then go for it. Unfortunatly alot of expats don't like the middle east even though they choose to be there (must be a reason for it)... so I guess its up to the individual. best of luck with it all. |
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