Lazy,

I do try not to be too naïve, there are things I would change about Dubai and Emirates tomorrow if I had the chance; needless to say I don’t.

ERP is not perfect but the endless and largely baseless conspiracy theories undermine the validity of real concerns. If you would like to read my contract ERP is there in black and white.

Well said SS.

Once again, somebody is trying to discuss a valid point. But the "If you don't like it, you can leave" all come to the rescue of the company.

Sad. If I start an airline one day, I'll hire them all. Then I'll cut their salaries and benefits. On their only off day of the month, I'll have them come and wash my car, for free.

Love you bunch of s..kers!

Seamen et al,
Maybe you can cast your opinion on my dilemma.
I have been offered DEC at EK. (no Im not a wannabe , previous widebody flying).I went to the interview purley as it coincided with days off and I was curious. I am aware of the unpopular element of this policy.Another arguement

I have also been offered a charter wideboby (command and trg) in UK.

Now charter can be dodgy , in terms of take overs fluctuating market etc.
Dubai can be a marmite place, but the job is steady.I am not a new boy to expat life.

Last month whilst on a short haul fleet sojourn , I made more money after tax than an fd07 at ek without tax. (6 Flights from 3 to 12 hrs)I will make more back on the long haul (approx 5 to 10 flights usa/carib bullets and lays) I dont get a hse or lift to work and i use NHS dentists, i get 3 months paid sick pa but essentially the contact is the same,with a less diverse route stucture obviously with no staff tvl worth mentioning.

Is it so bad at ek/dubai now that the move would be silly or is it a minority of moaners in a world where very few companies can offer security of tenure.(my biggest issue) and diverse flying (id like)
The same issues do seem to surface on each thread.
Uk doesnt appeal to me anymore but is DUbai the way out??
Any reasonable opionions welcome.
I apologise for thread creep but this thread seemed to have reasoned debate as oppossed to the usual ek vitriol witnessed on here
Cheers
Fork

You have a tough decision because I understand the issues with charter flying. If you come as a DEC I have no doubt you will be happy for a period of time. Then, if you are like most pilots here, things begin to wear you down over time.

You will NOT be looked after by the company. Sometimes yes, when it comes to things like an illness or a family death. (although even that one has become tenuous at best) But overall the company does not give a rats ass about pilots here.

You allude to the fact that you are better off financially now. Did i read that correctly? If you are better off financially then think twice about coming here. As far as coming as a DEC, you will be treated the same as if you joined as an F/O and did your time. Pilots here are pretty good about that, in other words not blaming you personally for a flawed and idiotic policy.

Here is my guess for your future if you come to EK. You will come here, find the immense growth of both the city and airline to be fascinating. You will enjoy the flying too because the route structure and aircraft are great. Everything else, such as bidding or FTL's will be a negative. After 4 to 6 years you will be seriously considering some other expat job because the growth of both airline and city becomes an irritant to you as it affects your daily life in a negative manner.

If you are married, your biggest issue will be if the family likes it here. Their happiness or lack thereof will have a bigger effect on you, than all the other crap or good things about this job and this place.

My best advice is this. If you are happy where you are........ stay there. If you are not happy where you are, then the veneer of Dubai will last longer for you and subsequently will result in you staying a few more years in Dubai, thereby making your move a better choice.

Best of luck.

Mensa,
Thanks for the reply. I do make more net than a fd07 with about half the work. Thats on the shorthaul fleet. Obviously I have to pay bills out of that but thats a winter paypacket.With occaisional Dops and duty it regularly gets to the point wher after tax and bills its still about the fd07 i have on the sample contract.(using 7.3 d and 100 hrs duty.)
I have considerable seniority but it is charter so kind of mute.

The move appeals but I agree its a function of how long individual tolerances are. The thought of worldwide 777 is tempting but is it enough?

Back to the musing.
Thanks again

Mensa is spot on with his assessment, one of the best I have seen. I would argue that Dubai and the airline will pi** you totally off a bit quicker than his 4 to 6 years, as the decline is like going down the back side of a drag curve (accelerating rapidly).
A tough decision to be honest, never under estimate the benefits of living among civilised people, where you have some rights, even though you don't notice or exercise them on a regular basis.

Fork (love the Handle)

You and I are in the same boat mate. I fly in the Far east but have been looking at EK for some time. My research is done in bars for the most part, and the ones in Dubai have got expensive - inflation is a worry.

Two main problems have kept me avoiding the nice girl in recruitment who keeps calling.

One is the duty times. EK seem to be playing with these and not counting bunk time or something. I have met guys who routinely fly over 100 in 28. Maybe this is voluntary, but if not there is no way I can do this. Too old, and hear that the EK bunks are awful anyway.

More recently there seems to be an issue with commuting. I knew of guys who do commute to Aus - Perth mostly. My T&S won't live year round in Dubai, so this is a deal breaker for me.

Have heard that there are more Aus commuting contracts in the pipeline with Chinese and Indian airlines. Will wait for these I reckon.

Good luck with your decision.

Reading 'Roo's post above...seems the word is out, be careful EKM, you might get what you wish for.....:cool:

A good example of the style of management you can expect is the use of factoring.
The GCAA were concerned that cadet pilots would count time spent as augmenting pilot when adding their hours for the issue of an ATPL. They wrote to EK about it. The letter was misinterpreted (hey anyone can make an honest mistake, right?) and the current policy is that augmenting pilots now only count 'stick time' when calculating their flight hours for FTL purposes.
In other words you can augment to SYD (14 hours block) but only count 6 hours toward your 100/28,900/12mth totals. The pairing includes a SYD_CHC_SYD (7hours) and another 14 hours augmenting back to DXB. The result 35 hours of block of which only 19 hours count!
In EK there is no union and no meaningful dialogue with the pilot group. Nothing is voluntary here except working on days off!(for now).

Leave is another big issue. A recent change limited the maximum period of leave to three weeks. If you live 8-10 time zones away that impacts your quality of leave. There was no consultation prior to this change. The reason for the change was that more guys would get the hallowed 'peak leave' (school holidays). I have yet to see any evidence of this.

A recent letter outlawed the use of vacant cabin seats for longhaul rest if a Crew Rest Cabin was available. If you augment to SYD, at 10.30am you are expected to lie horizontal in a coffin space and sleep for six hours during a circadien high. There is no option. I hear the 777 CRC is very noisy and uncomfortable.

Just a few examples illustrating the pilot groups lack of power in EK. There are many more.

Virgin Australia are looking for B777 drivers......