Emirates trainers shafted again!
 

The EK training department has just announced that there will be a 100% increase in the training workload next year. In an effort to give us some sort of life, we now have the option of not training when in the top bid group (once every 5 months). In the next breath it is casually mentioned that oh by the way if you exercise this option to every now and then improve your lifestyle YOU WILL NOT BE PAID YOUR APPOINTMENT ALLOWANCE FOR THAT MONTH!
Feel free to take a $4000 a year pay cut, or do an extra 2 weeks flying overtime a year in your top bid group months to maintain your present salary. :ugh:
That should attract plenty of new guys to a department that is already the laughing stock of the line drivers!

YOU WILL NOT BE PAID YOUR APPOINTMENT ALLOWANCE FOR THAT MONTH!
what a joke ..and they want to attract more trainers :hmm:

Hahahaaaaaaaaaaa, the department that is the butt of many jokes, has sunk lower yet.
I admire the guys that still hang in there, no way Jose would i EVER contemplate with these conditions. What bloody planet do they think we are on. :mad::mad::mad:

I love the adverts in CBC for the training dept, just right for defacing....

EGGW

Ve haf zer sayingk in zer Fazzerland; "Get out auf zer oven if zer temperachure rises, yahvohl!"

I thought "Appointment Allowance" was for an appointment hence always applicable if the post was held. Will trainers get a letter from HR changing their status every time they are entitled to the month of line flying?

I suppose the next thing is leave will be considered as non-appointment holding.

I cant see how this is really going to work anyway. Interacting with the bidding system, leave, sickness etc. will turn up more grey areas and opportunities for system abuse by one or other party. More chaos and discontent in the offing.

As most trainers stick with it because they need the money (certainly not the rosters or days off!) I cant see too many volunteering for a pay cut every so often. You would think they would offer a retainer at the very least.

What a joke. Order lots of aircraft then slap the trainers in the same week. At least their HR skills are consistent......

Chaps, you're reacting exactly as they knew you would. No one will take the month off therefore they'll be able to cope with the training demand, well sort of.

I know I'll be throwing in the towel in early next year. With the calibre of trainee recruited nowadays I don't want to face some judge in some first world country, never mind a third world country!!!

"Who is going to tell the king he has no clothes on", not me, I'll be elsewhere.....

Mmmm Kingpost....the calibre of the intake is not what will get you in front of a judge, it is the calibre of the trainees you have signed off...:hmm:

Fair point Kingpost..........but then why offer it in the first place??

The sad part is that only the j***s with the small ...., hm, egos will remain, to compensate - and the good ones throw in the towel with these conditions.
Sim rides will revert to a "xx"-horrortrip again (fill in whatever you feel like):{

Fart, the answer to your question goes something like this:
A few months ago, when it looked as though the wheels might be coming off the training department with so many resignations, management got together at one of the local hotels for the day for a "life-style symposium" and then dug into the bag and pulled out a few carrots.
"Don't throw in the towel just yet" they said. We're working on a few ideas for the trainers that will make them very happy.
The ideas included the possibility of getting one month off in five from training, but no-one mentioned that there would be a financial penalty for the privilage. And so they bought some time while they got the outsourcing sorted out. Well, writing the cheque is easy, but getting AAR to sign the damn thing is a different matter!
So here's the idea that was promised. On the off chance that the trainers like it, the managers look very good. On the other hand, if the trainers don't like it, the managers are not at fault because they can't sign the cheques.
It would probably have been a lot smarter to have said nothing until they had a proper deal signed by the boss, and then presented it to the trainers. Then again, they probably would have lost a lot more trainers between then and now.

SM

Simple Ans to PP and the higher echelons of EK who read this.

Take a month off and dont get paid = A LOSS or just go back as a line pilot.

4 months at work training and a 100% increase in work = double the hassle for little more reward.

AND THEY SAY THEY ARE GLAD TO ANNONUCE THIS PACKAGE!!!

FOR GoODS SAKE GET PHUCKING REAL GUYS AT THE TOP. YOUR COLLECTIVE INTELLIGENCE IS EMBARRASING!!!!

This is disappointing to say the least, a "work/life balance" at a bargain price of Dhs4000 a month. It basically says we acknowledge your work but to get some reprieve from it you are going to have to pay for it. Why offer it at all under those conditions? Personnally I would have prefered they said it didn't get approved than offer this with so much excitement. Hopefully there a few who get some advantage from it.

6500 dhs which includes transport and if you are already doing 100% training you cant do anymore, it only means farming out more training and more problems for EK TRE's. Cant remember the last time I did a line flt, as it is nackered all the time doing 100% training and if you are lucky 9 days off is a good month 8 standard and very very little O/T

Here's the way I see it, or more accurately, how the phone conversation will go on that month "off".

Scheduling - "Hi TRI/TRE this is scheduling. Since you have 18 days off this month could you help us out by doing a sim, one of the instructors called in sick?" "We don't have anyone else who can do it"

TRI/TRE - "Well, yes I'd love to do it for you, but I need to get my appointment pay for the month re-instated because I'm not officially able to help you otherwise." "Also need to have my transport allowance re-instated because I can't pay for the Salik fee out of my own pocket."

Scheduling - "We can't authorize the appointment pay, but we will give you call out pay". "Sorry, but can't help on the Salik charge"

TRI/TRE - "Well, not sure that I can actually do it because I'm not an authorized TRI/TRE this month." " Call PP and JH at home and have them re-instate my appointment pay for the month then I'd be happy to help". :}



Typhoonpilot

its simple STOP training if you are not happy...

Become a trainer and:

Get less pay then a line pilot...
Get less days off...
Get buggered around more and forefit line block pay to attend any meeting/training course as reqd by the idiots in the training dept...

AND NOW THIS!

They have put themselves in this situation of having insufficient training resources and will make those still in pay for it. They are going to increase 3rd party training where the imported instructors are paid MORE than our own trainers...

It's a joke, well it would be if it wasn't so sad. FUEK.

No one is forced to train against their will, if you don't like what is on offer then resign from training.

stop crying and resign from training, nobody forced you to become a trainer

GoreTex

Very useful comment. Inspired stuff. Identical in essence to that of Emratty two posts before, so it really adds value to the debate.

Its wonderful to see such independent thinking in the aviation community. Logic and sound judgement is a virtue every pilot should work towards.

Thank you

And now they expect the trainers to wear little third world gold stars so that the students can identify them! How embarassing. All because rostering clerks kept f....g up. The old story once again, a knee jerk reaction and the majority suffer because of the useless few who can't do their jobs properly. Heard that the guys are going to silent protest anyway by not wearing them.

Gortex/emratty:

“The only thing more expensive than education is ignorance.”

'If you don't like it leave' is the constant mantra spewed out from these idiots when issues of concern like this are discussed.

It takes a great deal of time and effort to become a trainer. There are some excellent trainers in EK some of which 'didn't like it and have left'. There are still some very good trainers but also some very average trainers starting to come in.

Perhaps the 'star' should be replaced with an ar*e and carrot because that is how it will be interpreted now.

Training should be something we respect and perhaps aspire to but it is being undermined and debased by the attitude of the training management, a clerk and an engineer at a time we can least afford it.

I picked up my new bars and wings the other day after a sim as I was essentially in the building. Had to take a number and wait - no fast track here. The wait was 2 hours, fortunately occupied by the 20 new goo goo eyed cabin crew asking stupid questions about their newly learned SEP etc.
Doing the math though I would say that there will be about 300 man hours lost just to pick up something that could easily be dropped in our letter boxes at the training college.
Now that's a good use of a scarce resource.
Just do it on a day off in your top bid month - if you get a day off, chasing the o/t to make up for your pay cut...

a few years ago lots of great trainers left training to make a point against the deteriorating conditions but lots of brand new captains signed up for training and undermined the resignations, now these guys are complaining about the deteriorating conditions, there will be new guys who will take their jobs and so on, it will get worse and worse, just face it, in EK pilots are their own worst enemies.

GoreTex

On that I must agree.

Marooned i certainly don't have a " if you don't like it leave attitude" the fact is trainers do the job for a variety of reasons lifestyle,money,career, even now maybe the gold star however like recruiting, crm instructor etc it is optional. Many of the highly respected senior trainers have left training beacause of the crap lifestyle that the training roster offers but they are instantly replaced by eager recruits who then in turn get cheesed off when they realise its not all its cracked up to be.
Until they put a package in place that will retain the trainers (lifestyle more than the money) this cycle will continue and the company will get an ever deteriorating experience level in the training department.

Gortex/Emratty...

Points taken, but this time it is a little different:

The last time this happened yes the trainers resigned and their places eagerly taken by others. At that time the training demand was slow but it was also an opportunity to build up the department to cope with future requirements... an opportunity lost. The difference now is that there is absolutley no slack in the system. Resignations now will cause substantial delays to transitions, upgrade and recurrent training that cannot be mitigated by expensive third party training which itself is struggling to cope with demand. There is a significant lag in a system, that is already struggling to stand still let alone go forward, to train trainers and get them on the front line.

The aircraft are coming thick and fast and the system is falling apart.

It takes several months to train a trainer and only one more stupid ill-conceived policy to lose one.

The lunatics are running the asylum.

And you guys were thinking Emirates would give you something for nothing?
It has been like this since day one: whatever they offer you comes at a price. They give you something, they take something else from you.
The company is already 22 years old, but still with "the guy-who-trades-goats-for-camels" mentality and style :}

When going to work on a non-training. non-appointed, non-paid month......do you wear the stars and stripes, or just the stripes?

SM:bored:

Speedbrake: Go stow yourself.

You totally miss the point: You can have SYD/MEL and day flights... that is a training department decision, trainers cannot bid for trips they would rather have instead.

More money!!! What a joke. It simply isn't. Roster is perhaps a week earlier.

Tosser. :ugh:

Marooned

I think there is a point or two that you may have missed :eek:

Speedbrake and others make some valid points.

However, it is a fact that training take a percentage of the 'choice' flights which, very obviously, reduces what's left for us mere mortals.
It's also a fact that you do less night flying (turnarounds), know your life some time ahead of the 'line' and take more money home.

You all volunteered for training, happy to take the money so presumably you were happy to take the crap, sorry.... conditions, that go with the job.

Being the superbly trained specimens that you are, you DIDN'T really expect to get something for nothing........ did you?:}

So, if you're not happy with the level of crap that is now being offered.....
LEAVE.

It's really not that difficult. Dubai, Emirates and the training department all have a shelf life. When the time comes, dump them or it.:{, individually or collectively.

Every time I think about going into training, I just look at my rosters and for 3 or 4 out of 5 months, it just ain't worth it.

Peace of mind, lower stress and it only costs AED 3,000 per month :p

Speedy, Helen et al, if you believe the trainers have it so good already, no night turns, SYD/MEL etc etc then why not become a trainer? Oh thats right, your rosters (work/life balance) is so much better on the line. That my friends is the whole point.... The aim is to make training attractive compared to the line. The fact that you don't believe trainers should still be paid their training allowance on their non training month would indicate that management got it wrong and should pay them. I am happy if someone, anyone, is getting a good deal, isn't that better than no one?