PPRuNe Forums

PPRuNe Forums (https://www.pprune.org/)
-   Middle East (https://www.pprune.org/middle-east-44/)
-   -   Joining Qatar Airways (QR) - all you need to know about it (threads merged) (https://www.pprune.org/middle-east/288896-joining-qatar-airways-qr-all-you-need-know-about-threads-merged.html)

Obbie 5th Feb 2014 10:20

The article is a collage of different events that is made to appear
to have happened to these three individuals. Every event listed in
the article has happened and is accurate in its details. I believe
however that the stories are from several people and not just three.

ASH 25 5th Feb 2014 10:59

Still unbelievable!

DonLeslie 5th Feb 2014 14:34

"I believe however that the stories are from several people and not just three."

And what difference would that make? :confused:

Flyboy41 5th Feb 2014 14:34

Hi all,

Question about the interview process? Are the questions in the 'latestpilotjobs.com' for the QR gouge any good? Or a combination of that, ACE, JAA bank, etc etc... I know it's impossible to know it all. Referring to the 50 question multiple choice tech quiz. Any latest updates? Thanks....
I promise not to stay out late.... :O

mnop 5th Feb 2014 14:39

A few unpublished sides of QR
If your thinking about Qatar Airways as your next employer there are few not so public points regarding Qatar Airways and Doha, Qatar you should be aware of before considering QR.

Ø Corporate culture
o Fear!!!!, the company is dominated and run on fear, the fear of being sacked for anything at anytime with no explanation. As an employee you have no rights you are subjugated to fear and oppression, you work for Akbar Al Baker[1] who moves through the company with a bow wave of fear, leaving a wake of destruction. If for any reason Al Barker wants you gone, you and your family are out the door, many times without an explanation.
o Promises of a new airport that is more than five years behind schedule[2] filled with excuses for the delay. It is always someone else’s fault.
o Qatar Airways is currently operating out of an airport[3] that is more than 200% over capacity, which in turn places undue pressure and threats to safety to everyone. Al Baker expects everyone to provide additional personal time to cover for his inability to provide the long promised “new” airport.
o In the event you are under investigation for a work related occurrence or any other reason, you are prohibited[13] from leaving the country, your exit permit is cancelled. If you are sacked, in addition to being bared from leaving the country until they have completed the Qatar Airways hazing process as a now former employee, your family is held hostage and unable to leave, your bank account is frozen and the ordeal to depart Qatar becomes titanic.
o Social media, do not post anything on any social site. Akbar Al Baker has his spies who carefully watch every site.
o Al Barker expects control over every aspect of your life, including who you may marry if your single to where your wife works. If he does not like where your wife is working you can be sacked.
o No retirement plan, although you do receive 3 weeks pay for every year of service if you make it to resignation and then follow the ninety day Qatar Airway’s exit plan.
o ON-TIME performances is poor for two primary reasons, first, some flights are under blocked to avoid the cost of additional cockpit crew for inflight relief. This is seen on routes where one leg is under-blocked so the company can dead-head the relief pilot at no cost to the company many times in a middle economy seat, the return leg to Doha is properly blocked with the appropriate use of the relief pilot. Also, some of the longer turn-around flights are also under-blocked to avoid over-nighting the crew. Second; due to the delayed “new[2]” airport. Every employee is expected to pick up their game in all areas, many times at their own personal time and expense while the on going delay creates greater and greater treats to safety.

Ø Remuneration and leave:
o No genuine pay increase for flight deck crew members in more than five years while the cost of living continues to grow at about ten percent per year[4] [5].
o Last “pay increase” was a zero sum raise. Loss of benefits in exchange for increased pay[6].
o No bonuses or pay incentives.
o Depending on fleet, average flight time ranges 50 to 75 hours. The median is around 60 hours.
o Annual Leave Ticket (ALT), flight crews are entitled to forty-two days leave a year. Leave is divided in to two six month block, twenty-one day sections. The bidding and awards, along with moving days are relativity fair. Where the annual leave comes up short is the AL Ticket is upgradable to business for flight crew and by the rules you cannot be bumped. The upgrade is correct, being bumped does happen.
o No pay for deadheading, standbys, simulator, simulator support or ground courses.

Ø Rostering
o “It’s legal” is the standard line from rostering, safe or reasonable is not a consideration. Fatigue is a daily on going factor due to rostering. The QCAA is of no value in this area CEO Al Baker’s influence at the QCAA is too great to overcome the much needed changes in rostering for safety.
o Rosters comprised of arriving early-departing late or inversely so, time changes of five or more hours per duty cycle is common, schedules which take crews from East to West with no consideration for time change are the norm. Flights exceeding eight hours with twelve to fourteen hours rest time that includes time from shut down to report are common.
o Required report time is 75 minutes: Report time is 75 minutes before departure where the flight crew must be at the plane 45 minutes before departure. The time line is not possible with an average of two computers available to check in thirty to fifty crew member. Software written by Qatar IT is slow and nearly unusable, add to this the printing of flight plans, review and preparing for a flight will take you on an average 20 to 30 minutes (your late and have not left ops), in the event your plane is parked on East bay (the other side) the bus ride can take in excess of 30 minutes. To ensure your on time, you must present your self nearly two hours before departure time. In September of 2013 management issued a notice regarding the increased pressure due to the delay in the new airport directing flight crews to manage their time better. The underling message here is report early, time crews are not compensated for and more importantly time that is not credited towards duty.
o Pay stops at the end of scheduled block, which are frequently less than actual flight time. FA’s post flight duties extend their work-day which in turn extends the pilots unpaid work and duty day by 30 to 50 minutes per flight as flight deck crew must wait for the FA’s. In the end, the cumulative affect of the time not counted toward pay or duty both pre and post flight, flight deck crews give Qatar Airways 60 to 120 minutes per flight.
o Freighter flights are frequently work one-way, dead-head back for free on the same plane with no compensation.
o STBY, 2300 to 0600 provides crew control with two days of availability. This is perpetrated by early on the first day (2300) to find a SMS from crew control advising you of a roster changes with a departure time at anytime during the day leading up to your were originally rostered 2300 beginning of standby. On the other hand when a trip originally ending at lets say, 0600 is taken off your roster the changes will reflect STBY to 2359 on the same day where once you were free at 0600.
o Regardless of your monthly or yearly flight hours, you are permitted only ten days a month off with no more than five days consecutive days off. Standby is the common method of enforcing these limitations.

Ø Housing
o Company housing – Qatar has moved away from company proved housing in favor of new employees securing their own accommodations. The company housing stipends is inadequate for the Doha housing market to cover the vast majority of family housing especially for first officers, captains fair just a bit better.
o There is no rent control in Doha, which means unless you negotiate a multi-year lease, at the end of your lease you will most likely be met with an unexpectedly large increase in your rent.
o Utilities’
§ Qatar Cool, excessively expensive.
§ Water and power are reasonable.
§ Television – expensive and limited.
§ Phone service – reasonable.
§ Broadband services – expensive for the quality.

Ø Schools
o Qatar schools are at over capacity with long waiting lists, the schools are expensive, and sub standard. Some families opted to send their children to boarding schools out of Qatar or the wife and children moves back to the home country for schooling due to the unavailability of slots in Doha schools compounded with the poor standards of Qatari schools[7]. Most schools insist on Islamic studies as part of a child’s daily curriculum.
o Company school tuition reimbursement is a set amount to fit all sizes of family.

Ø Medical coverage is a bright spot at Qatar Airways unless you have family in North America where you must pay additional fees for North American coverage.
o Medical care in Doha falls short.

Ø Life in Doha:
o Cost of living: high and rapidly rising[8] [9].
o Driving is nothing short of dangerous in Qatar[10].
o Shopping, groceries; you may find it, you may not. Nearly everything is imported. This means by the time you get find the food in the store many items will be near their expiration date, or you should consume them soon or it will not be eatable.
o Clothing; expensive.
o Public transportation
§ Busses, run at irregular intervals, buses are unsafe for children and women.
§ Taxies are available and not too expensive but can be difficult/impossible to find on a weekend or holiday. The drivers are of questionable ability.

Ø Holidays
o Ramadan. For the holy month there is no eating or drinking (including water) in public during daylight hours, all public offices including banks work reduced hours and the vast majority of restaurants are closed during the day. Temperatures during the summer months linger in the high 40 ‘s [Celsius].
o National Day, 18th of December; The road in Doha are filled with slow moving horn blowing, engine revving cars that bring the city to a standstill. There is however a spectacular fire works display in the evening.

Ø Weather
o 10C in the winter to 45+C in the summer months.
o Rain, is a rare occasion, you don’t want to be on the roads if they are wet.
o Fog is common in the spring and fall, again you don’t want to be on the roads.

Ø Driving
o Owning a car is a must, bigger is better for yourself and family’s safety. Auto insurance is high due to the poor driving habits in Doha.
o Land Cruisers are the unofficial national car. Shortly after arriving in Doha, depending on your personality, the site of a Land Cruiser will send you in to a state of panic or rage due to the Qatari way of driving.
o Congested roads are everywhere.
o Construction, Doha city is the largest construction site imaginable. There is construction everywhere. Roads change over night with little or no warning and road closures without notification
o General poor road lay out.
o Near complete absents of traffic law enforcement.
o Traffic laws are not enforced[11]. Qataris in particular have extremely poor driving habits when not passing in the saflty lanes of both sides of the road, they are tail gating while flashing their high-lights, when you don’t move over as quickly as the Qatari drive feel you should they attempt to run you off the road by swerving their vehicle at your vehicle at high speed. Qataris pass on all sides, drive on side walks in order to cut the que, along with excessive speed and many other dangerous habits.

Ø Safety.
o Personal safety in Qatar is dwindling due to the increased population and the near absents of law enforcement in many areas. Compounded with the poor salary payment record of some Qatari business have forced some workers in to crime to survive.
o Don’t rely on the news for safety related items.

Ø Weekends
o Family days at the malls – where the laborers are prohibited from entering the malls, they can be seen setting outdoors in 45+C heat.

Ø Qatari Culture
o Expats are required but not wanted and poorly tolerated by Qataris.
o Entitlement is a Qatari way of life, cutting queues, driving without regard to safety or the well being of others is the standard.
o Dress, locals dress in “National Dress”, expats are expected to dress conservatively. The general feeling of Middle Eastern persons, a woman who is not covered is a whore.
o Public displays of affection not allowed. However it is culturally acceptable for men to walk around holding hands to do so with your wife is frowned upon
o Laws: guilty until proven innocent.
· Laws are unequally applied. A prosecutor frequently interjects his personal feelings mixed with religious beliefs.
· Qatari families often make false accusations against domestic help. The expat domestic help is jailed without proper prof of guilt with no way out of jail. In general if a Qatari makes an accusation towards you or your family you are guilty.
o Religion
§ Islam is the only openly practiced religion in Doha. There are Christian churches, which cannot display a cross or other Christian symbol and are very crowded.
o Exit permits[13] are a way of life in Qatar. Pilots are allowed to posses a multi-exit permit at the cost of 500QR/year. If there is an issues e.g. disciplinary action with the company they have the right to cancel your exit permit with out which you are unable to leave the country. In the event you resign or are sacked you must pay 500QR to cancel the exit permit, this is done as part of the Qatari hazing following your planned or unplanned departure.

Ø Changing airlines:
o Pilots license, it is nearly impossible to have your Qatari pilots license validated by another airline or country.
o There are anti-poaching agreements between Qatar, Emirates and Etihad, the anti-poaching agreement only benefits Qatar Airways.
o Kafala [12] system, the sponsor ship system that maintains control of expats movement from job to job as well as stifles better wages and working conditions.

Ø What you will find at Qatar Airways are challenges, a good number of quality people from all disciplines’, well maintained planes, a wide variety of flying, and potential.

In the end, Qatar Airways has a great deal to offer, but is stifled by the current corporate culture, a reflection of one man[13] , where employees are viewed as a liability not as an asset [14] pilots are view by Al Baker as chuffers. In general Mr. Al Baker regards and treats employees as liabilities, not as company assets. Until there is a more moderate approach towards all Qatar Airways employees, planned and unplanned attrition will remain high, a cost that is clearly not taken in to account at Qatar Airways. With out improvements, Qatar Airways will remain a Third World place to work.

A recent newspaper article further exemplifies life at Qatar Airways, although embellished in a few points, over all the writing is accurate[15].

As you look at airlines, at this time Qatar Airways should be at or near the bottom of your list you would be better served seeking employment[16] else where including the other Gulf carries.

[1] Akbar Al Baker - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[2] Hamad International Airport - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[3] Doha International Airport - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[4] Report: Qatar most expensive place to live in the Gulf | Doha News

[5] Qatar most expensive country for living in GCC | Qatar Living

[6] Qatar Airways pilot jobs, payscales and entry requirements.

[7] http://www.qatarliving.com/qatar-living-lounge/posts/qatar-unhappiest-kids-worst-schools

[8] Cost of Living in Doha, Qatar. Prices in Doha.

[9] The Peninsula Qatar - Rentals push up annual inflation to 2.7pc

[10] Driving in Qatar | InterNations.org

[11] Traffic in Qatar - Driving You Insane

[12] Kafala system - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[13] Doha's new airport ready to spread its wings ? Business 360 - CNN.com Blogs

[14] CNN Business Traveller in Qatar - YouTube

[15] The truth about the luxury of Qatar Airways | Nyheter | Expressen | Senaste nytt - Nyheter Sport Nöje TV

[16] Human rights in Qatar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

atpcliff 5th Feb 2014 15:49

About how many pilots are leaving QR per month...for any reason (leaving for another carrier, retirements, loss of medical, etc.).

About how many pilots are joining per month?

Boeingrestricted 6th Feb 2014 08:21

very complete ...
:D, mnop an extensive and objective description of most of the negative aspects , without elaborating on the matter in order not to inject your personal feelings towards the matter. Really I :D you. I missed the intrusive company searches coming in from certain flights :ugh:.

mnop 6th Feb 2014 09:17

Salamalikum2 & Boeingrestricted
With any writing somethings will be overlooked. In this case, between the two of you have added value to "A few unpublished sides of QR".
Thank you

jaarrgh 7th Feb 2014 06:16

Whilst most of what has been said is true, I feel that some posts make slightly unfair generalisations. As stated, the Qatari population is a small minority in Doha. General descriptions of 'locals' include people from all over the Middle East. I believe that are many Qataris who share the same frustrations with Doha, the government, employers, etc. In many cases they do not have a voice, and in many cases they are not rich. I applaud the recent media coverage of working conditions in Doha, and especially QR. However, perhaps the focus of this outrage should not be directed at Qataris in general.

Stone_cold 7th Feb 2014 07:04

I see very little outrage directed towards Qatari's in general. The links and the thread is to do with QR and it's treatment of staff, but the general disregard of basic human rights is an issue throughout the country. Is anything said in any of the links posted recently in dispute?

Boeingrestricted 7th Feb 2014 18:05

I understand your point of view, because I do agree it has nothing to do with the Qatari's in general they are as good/bad as any other nationality.
As a matter of fact I do have some good friends amongst them . The other side of the coin I specifically mentioned that mnop mentioned almost all of the NEGATIVE aspects regarding QR and counting...

Smoothflight 11th Feb 2014 13:03

Joining Qatar Airways (QR) - all you need to know about it (threads merged)
New doj September 2014.

airwjo 11th Feb 2014 13:29


You really hit the nail, can't say it better, all true, very true unfortunately

Qr has a lot of potential, but nobody cares.

One thing to the locals. There are those and those. While some youngsters try to kill you, others are very approachable well educated and friendly, but they are the vast minority.

The biggest problem is, they can terminate you without an obvious reason and you have no rights, not at all, you regarded as a staff number, not more, and believe me, it is a big head ache getting out.

As I mentioned in another thread, nothing will change, money talks, that's it, and there are a lot of people from a certain area in this world, who change their opinions and behavior, like a flag in the wind, everybody who lives in the Middle East, know whom I mean.

Anyway, pilots and their families should really read this comment from mnop, as it is the best statement and sum up, I have ever read in pprune.

All the best

Cheers :ok:

mmorel 12th Feb 2014 01:11

Staff ticket
I know that First Office are eligible for business class ,If all the economic seats are full ,will they upgrade you to business class or you would need to buy an ID90 business class?

TinkerTailor 12th Feb 2014 01:17

You would need to buy a id90 business class.

N4865G 13th Feb 2014 06:01

Talent Pool
Good day,
Interviewed mid January, just got the reply of being placed in the talent pool.
NTR 777 FO.
Is it reasonable to assume the DOJ could be this year still?
Is the assessment valid for 1 year?
Thank you very much,

waas 13th Feb 2014 06:40

Same here, just got positive reply concerning the assessment FO B777/787. Now waiting for an offer. Just a bit worried about the 'talent pool'. Is this normal procedure when they can not offer you a joining date right away?
FYI: 9 days between applying and receiving a email stating they would invite me. Got the invitation 21 days later and 10 days between the assessment and email with the result.
Now let's see how long the waiting will be till the offer..:8

winterinhell 13th Feb 2014 14:32

Earliest class for 777 mayb july,airbus is next year..they're really short of instructors..thats what they told me during interview end of january..

Vmax400 14th Feb 2014 15:16

Thanks winterinhell for the info.

Guys im wondering, is the holding pool the same as the talent pool?

Iver 15th Feb 2014 01:17

How soon before we start to see newhires going to the A350? 2nd half of the year? Or will those be primarily staffed internally from the A330/320 fleets?

Anyone know the delivery rate of the A350 once it starts to arrive?

All times are GMT. The time now is 10:27.

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.