PPRuNe Forums

PPRuNe Forums (https://www.pprune.org/)
-   Middle East (https://www.pprune.org/middle-east-44/)
-   -   Joining Qatar Airways (QR) - all you need to know about it (threads merged) (https://www.pprune.org/middle-east/288896-joining-qatar-airways-qr-all-you-need-know-about-threads-merged.html)

flyforfood1 29th Jun 2011 15:42


They already have a big problem with people not showing up for there start dates. Imagine how many people who have completed the interview and are waiting to start will now not turn up as out of the blue they find out they will have to their salary's cut to pay for the type rating...
Couldn't agree more, I know if it were me I wouldn't be turning up - for those that will join on the A320 its almost a pay cut on what todays guys take home (and thats is still very unfair compared to the other fleets).

I think QR will see a big increase in those that are waiting for their first job i.e SO's, therefore requirements will get lower, the experience gap will get wider, and the airline will once again be shooting themselves in the foot!

I'll give this new bond policy 3 months tops before they realise its a mistake.

If you were/are an experienced FO you'd be stupid not to take EK over QR.

JCUERVO 29th Jun 2011 21:37

One more negative (or Fact) to add to the other column...

If you have Children, QTR Airways contract with Allianz health insurance will only cover them UP to their 23rd Birth Day at which point HR will send u a very "polite"(Note, Sarcasm) Email explaining you must Immediately return that Child's Allianz card to the HR department at the tower...

This is NOT reflected in the policy paperwork that is given to us, and just had a very rude awakening regarding this fact with an Email sent to a Co-worker on his offspring's B-day

The race to the bottom continues...

BDD 29th Jun 2011 22:18

I think most companies have a limit on how long they will cover your kids.
I hope the child does not have some sort of debilitating health problem
that would keep them from going out into the work force.

TwoTone-7 29th Jun 2011 22:43

Cover till your child is only 23. Really, you find that unreasonable!? What age would be acceptable for you? Honestly, I completely understand most concerns but then there are some....

There are people I know who were father of 2-3 children by the time they were 23. Grown, responsible young adults at 23. I would only expect cover up to say, age 16 or 18 maximum.

standard 30th Jun 2011 03:53

I think that this 'Bond' is quite interesting and agree with many on this post. Having $1388 removed from your wage ($8100) leaves only $6711us per month, not a great deal of coin particularly if you are planning on moving from current employment.

This bond does not stop people from leaving the company after getting a type rating.

Additionally the cost of $25000 withheld over 36months is far greater than this. Consider if you had this in a bank at just 6% interest this would equate to around $30,000 ($5000 in interest), not to mention if it was used for property or other investments.. now we are looking at upwards of $100,000.

I know that i am considering Qatar but this latest in Bond twists really has me reconsidering my position. $1388 per month or a 18% pay cut really hits the hip pocket, and when it comes to moving and living in Qatar this may make all the difference.

I hope that the company reconsiders their position on this. Obviously if people enjoy the company and conditions they work in, then employee retainment is a no brainer.

TwoTone-7 30th Jun 2011 04:38

How is it a pay cut when you will see the money back at a particular point.

I agree with you in that there is an opportunity cost with what the bond money could be used for but I do not see it as a pay cut. The primary loss is the interest you could have gained ($230 per month according to your calculations). The projected loss on what positive investments you could have made with your $25000 being held away from you are purely wishful thoughts and projections. With the right amount of business acumen, you can make a great deal of money back on investments from $6700 a month.

Lastly, in current times. Who gives a flat 6% interest, you'd be lucky with 2% in Europe.

standard 30th Jun 2011 05:26

Obviously we will not see eye to eye on whether this is a pay cut or not, "if we will see it later". A compulsory payment, means less cash flow and in my terms is a pay cut. I don't need someone to help me save $25000.

In Australia you will get 6%

"wishful thought and projections " I will be happy to discuss investment strategies with you.

I agree you can make a lot with $6700, you can make a lot more with $8100, which is actually the contracted wage!

Look frankly I dont care if u agree or not, I think for those who are not short sighted they can see that this is not a desirable or sustainable situation.

If it's a jet job you want - take it, or if this bond does not bother or effect your situation, no problem. I am just relaying insight from a different perspective.

TROPICAL-DEPRESSION 30th Jun 2011 05:47

Bonds & QR
 
Just to put and other item on the table. When regards to bonds in QR - What you sign, is what you get for the period agreed apon in the bond.

This meens today you sign a bond with QR, tomorrow no more bonds. The more junior pilot to you, will benefit of the new no-bond policy. YOU WILL NOT.

This is how it's been done and this is how it will continue to be done. My advice is be careful when signing any bond, unless you know, you will last long enough to pay it back, otherwise those 25k are just gone.

3 years after final line check is a long time, less than half the pilots of QR have lasted so long, and many have quit way before.

TwoTone-7 30th Jun 2011 07:07

Tropical Depression, very true!

Standard, you highlight the fundamental issue once again. Take away from it what you want. Not just the contract, the airline, the country.

To me, being left with $6700 is enough because I understand I can make the deficit easily by other means. I also understand that I am getting much more value than just the pay packet by working for QR and living in Doha.

The contracted wage is $8100 which is detailed from the outset AND it is ALSO detailed from the outset that a bond is applied and deductions will be made each month. Therefore the contract is simples, you take home $6700 - you either like the contract or not. There is no tricking, it's black and white. By your logic, you could say that you are unhappy with the company to house you and are able to find your own accommodation so why not get given the housing allowance.....

You must care whether I agree or not because you're hear to vent your anger/frustration/seek advice from others. So, if I find your reasons ridiculous then I will have to make a comment about them. As for making a nice pay packet, head out to China. You wont have to travel that much farther. It is not about being short sighted, it is about weighing up and taking in to accounts the whole deal and all positive negative externalities associated with it.

You have my perspective so there is at least one different perspective for you. :)

scorpio 30th Jun 2011 08:03

as two tone stated consider ur salary 6700 usd and u will get a salary increase after 18 month from FLC if ur making more than 6700 a month where u are now why are coming to qr stay where u are no need to change jobs :ok:

plus all new joiners in this forum u guys where already coming to qr before the salary increase and where ok with the 6700 so just consider there was no salary increase ,the increment that we had to the new salary consider it for paying the rating is that clear enough .:ok:

Dont Just Sit There 30th Jun 2011 11:50

I really don't see the big deal here! Whether you are bonded for $50,000 for 3 years or you are bonded with a salary reduction the difference is quite negligible in the long term if you intend on doing the honorable thing and seeing out your bond period. The numbers jumping ship are huge so the company has to do something. After the 18 months of payments your bond will of reduced to the same amount as you have paid so if you jump ship at that time your all square.

Standard your figures are wrong with regards to your returns on $25,000. @ 6% over 3 years. Your investment assumes you have $25,000 to invest from day 1 in Doha, which you don't. You would be saving $1,389 per month for 18 months which would give you $26,224 @ 6%. Which would then grow at 6% for a further 18 Month with no extra contributions to give $28,687. Based on interest paid monthly. So your gain is $3,687. So divide that by 36 months and your actual reduction in salary could be viewed as only $102.42 per month. Which is about 1 night a month at the pub. Which you won't really notice and the forced savings gives you a nice cheque at the end of 3 years which you probably wouldn't of saved had you been given it on a monthly basis anyway. So one view could be that you'll be better off!! Just my thoughts though!

shamonwillye 30th Jun 2011 18:23

Fast Track S/O on Bond Repayment
 
Guys,

Does this bond repayment also apply to Fast Track S/O joining soon? As the new Fast track s/o are only on around $2600 p/m (Exc flight pay as the line training is extended for fast track to avg 80 sectors, not sure if flight pay is given while during this line training..?)

So basically this means your getting $2600 - $1388 (bond repay) = $1212. and im sure like myself they have loans from their own country to pay back, in my case around $1000. So I would come out with $212 a month? You cant be serious? seriously, until the line training is done and get a descent wage as F/O, but thats impossible to live on $212 p/m for 4-7 months! :=

Also, does anyone know when the safety pilot leaves during line training on Fast Track s/o (A330), how many sectors? As I hear once the S.P leaves then Flight pay is granted during line training? Is this true? :confused:

Thanks all!!

nutwrencher 30th Jun 2011 19:04


Guys,
Does this bond repayment also apply to Fast Track S/O joining soon? As the new Fast track s/o are only on around $2600 p/m (Exc flight pay as the line training is extended for fast track to avg 80 sectors, not sure if flight pay is given while during this line training..?)

So basically this means your getting $2600 - $1388 (bond repay) = $1212. and im sure like myself they have loans from their own country to pay back, in my case around $1000. So I would come out with $212 a month? You cant be serious? seriously, until the line training is done and get a descent wage as F/O, but thats impossible to live on $212 p/m for 4-7 months!

Also, does anyone know when the safety pilot leaves during line training on Fast Track s/o (A330), how many sectors? As I hear once the S.P leaves then Flight pay is granted during line training? Is this true?

Thanks all!!
Not 100% sure on all details of S/O recruitment but I will answer as best I can!

Yes the bond applies to ALL new joiners as stated in the latest company memo....
The deduction from salary is bond amount divided by 36
So for S/O bond $50000/36 = $1389 So Salary $2600-$1389=$1211 :{

So I'm afraid yes it looks as though your maths are correct. I didn't think how badly it would affect the new SO's joining before :eek:

Unfortunately SO's didn't get a pay rise recently as I'm sure they are flooded with applications.

As far as I know yes you will receive flight pay after the safety pilot is released. Im afraid I also have no idea how long SO training will take either but I think 4months might be wishful thinking but I have no idea..

But Tropical Depression made a VERY good point!!!


Just to put and other item on the table. When regards to bonds in QR - What you sign, is what you get for the period agreed apon in the bond.This meens today you sign a bond with QR, tomorrow no more bonds. The more junior pilot to you, will benefit of the new no-bond policy. YOU WILL NOT.
Don't forget that if you are hoping this new policy will change soon as I'm sure it will

Linerider 30th Jun 2011 19:11

Once the safety pilot is removed then you get sector pay. I don't know the answer to your other questions though.

standard 1st Jul 2011 09:05

Gee you guys are short sighted!, this is an airline job not GA. As it is the wage isn't flash. I understand that they are losing crew. But by deducting any amount is not going to keep crew if they are unhappy.

If it suits you do it!. If not there are plenty of other jobs.

My figures were rough, if $1300 makes all the difference so be it.

Balvenie 1st Jul 2011 12:19

If the company is doing this, then you have to ask why ?? The answer is probably because of the attrition rate . So, the answer, to try and force people, financially to stay for at least 3 years.

Many people come here and say, I can do 5yrs, 10 yrs, get my command etc, only after living here for a year to say this isn't for me !

As, most people have never been here before, you will not know how you feel until you have lived here for a while, in that case, would you take a chance on this type of bond package ??

In fact it may encourage people to decide to jump ship sooner...

Fubaliera 1st Jul 2011 12:28

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it will still be a pig. Doha is just a dusty outpost fueling stop in the middle east. Anyway anybody with a brain would try EK/EY/GF or Saudia/Flydubai/Air Arabia/Oman Air before Qatar.

yancharlie 1st Jul 2011 18:25

Qr is having an open house in the US this month! Does anyone know if it's just a meet and greet, present your CV and if they like what they see, they will call you for an interview later on? Or if you show up to the open house, expect to be tested on something? Do you have to call and reserve a slot? Any answer will be appreciated, thanks....

jamieboy 2nd Jul 2011 10:38

Hi. I was wondering if somebody could post a typical 320 Captain roster. It would be very much appreciated. Thanks

loc22550 4th Jul 2011 12:42

typical a-320 captain roster ::E
To make it simple:
Unfair-corrupted-tiring-lots of changes-minimum days off-lots of unpaid
duties.


All times are GMT. The time now is 05:46.


Copyright 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.