Emirates Days off
 

I know I am going to get flamed for this but I could not find anything on this anywhere. I know they are only guarenteed 8 days off per month.

How many days off does the normal Emirates pilot get off per month. What if I wanted to do local trips or turns or whatever you call them (out and back trips)? I do know they have very long trips 8-9 days, how do guys with families do them. What is the average trip length? I know they are only guarenteed 8 days off per month. Just trying to figure out the QOL issues now rather than later....

Thanks.

Actually there is no guarantee of 8 days off in a month, I think the minimum they can give you is 7. I have even been down at 6 days off as they decided to count one of my days off down-route, as a legal day off, which they are allowed to do.
However the reality is a wee bit better than that most of the time. It also depends on what fleet you are on. If I was to average out my days off over the last 18 months or so (since we started doing 900 hours a year) I would guess I get about 10 days off pcm.
However, keep in mind terms and conditions only ever deteriorate here, they NEVER improve.

Off days as EK A330/340 F/O
 

On average between 12 -16 days off. If you fly only on a330 the minimum is about 11 to 12 days off but only if you are in lower bidding groups (worst case).

B777 fleet might be a different story.....

Hope that helps, cheers

I would say 10 to 14, A330/340 MFF

ruserious,
you've got me reaching for my FOM (wherever it is)! They can count days off down route for the purposes of the 7 then 1 off, 2 off in 14 rules, but not for min days off per month. These must be spent in Dubai. It's all in chap 21, but have to admit I haven't checked recently.
I notice that scheduling seem to have dropped all responsibility for monitoring this type of compliance (clearly out of necessity). We're on our own.
Oh, and my average days off are 9-10.

Hmmm, you may be right Backwater, not saying it was legal, it just happened!
As you know the FOM can be bent at will, but only in one direction, for the company's benefit.

Agreed Ruserious,
If I challenge Scheduling on legality I have found they always fold like a cheap suitcase. THAT'S job satisfaction! On the issue of days off it's in our best interests to know the rules backwards.

Respectfully, I would stay in the States if I were you. Why bring your family all the way to Dubai - an increasingly expensive sandpit? Why not apply to AirTran or SWA when you have the hours? Seriously, EK can change the rules on you AT WILL. Anything they are telling you now they can change and you have no protection. Don't let the allure of flying the 777 or even the A380 (yeah, if that ever happens) convince you to leave the States - a big mistake if you ask me. They tell a great story to prospective pilots, but that story can change on a dime...

B777 Captain- Calendar year 2005- months without vacation- Not including Rest Days:

Average 13.28 Days Off per month

Including Vacation and Rest Days:

17 Days off per month on average.


Typhoonpilot

Typhoon,
Your situation is far from average. It's difficult to say what your roster will look like. Depends on fleet, seat and seniority. Days off (not counting vacation) can range anywhere from 7 to 18. Guys flying only ultra-longhaul will be towards the high side. On the 777, since coming back to the line I have probably averaged 9-11 days off per month. While last year 13 days off average might have happened, it certainly isn't happening now. And averaging your vacation in - are you trying for a management job?

I have to agree with Gillegan. I have averaged 18 days working for the last 6 months. In my reserve month that is 5 weeks I flew 136 hours. I deadheaded to ICN which means I did not actually "fly" 8 hours of that total but everyone gets the point.
Typhoonpilot you are a check airman and we all know that you guys don't work as hard as we do. As you say your mileage may vary and the line pilots mileage sure is different than yours. I believe you should know that we are working our talils off.

Gee it didn't take you too long to spin the company propaganda Typhoon.What relevance does your training roster have to new joiners.Where have you been lately?How did your US recruiting drive turnout?

Low month month...8 days off + 105 hrs
Top Bid month ... 16 days off + 95 hrs.
Last month with leave .. 7 days leave, 6 days off,. 85 hours....cost neutral my arse.
Senior( ha, now there's a fekin larf :ugh: ) f/o A33/340
Just remeber that some folks feel morally bound to put a positive spin on anything and everything..

Just a flesh wound!
Oh!Had enough, eh? Come back and take what's coming to you, you yellow bastards!! Come back here and take what's coming to you! I'll bite your legs off!
Courtesy of The Black Knight
:) :)

I forgot to metion in my above post that when I was top bid 5 months ago I had 7 days vacation and also my recurrent training in the same month. I flew 83 hours. Yes that is right. 83 hours spread over 20 days of avialable flying. I wish I was treated how the check airman are treated. Cost neutral to who?

Just an observation from a casual observer:

The threads delineating unhappiness among EK pilots are prominent on this forum, from who flies the airplane to the housing allowance to days off to upgrade issues to the heat in Dubai to how to pay your bills back home.

Sounds like you've got yourselves a bad deal over there with no apparent mechanism for change. This can only lead to one question:

Why are you still there ?

I don't have a horse in this race ( and wouldn't WANT to ) and I'm not trying to pick a fight with anyone so don't react as if I am, but the same question keeps coming to mind:

Why are you still there ?

No emoticons in my first post. Pure fact, seat and aircraft type clearly stated. Still a line captain in 2005 so you can't spin the TRI thing against me. Will days off in 2006 be fewer for a normal line captain? Yes, probably.

A factual post to answer an honest question. Just because I'm known as a positive person I will get attacked here, which is why I don't post very often. Even something like this where I post fact without any comment gets attacked. :ugh:

TP

another positive person here
 

There is so many bad posts about EK ... Is your job & lifestyle really that bad? Some of us have to live with 1/5th of your salary, 8 days off per month, fly 8x less than you, extra paid only for transportation costs and pension scheme, no free villa, no utility allowance etc ... And we also have a bad management (ministry of defence that is :}) which just bought a bunch of armored vehicles instead of fighter jets :ugh:

And I'm still happy to have a job.

TP, that just about brought a tear to my cynical eye :}

Airman, there are many people who are undoubtedly worse off than we are, who would kill for our jobs, just as there are many people starving in Africa. That's not really the point, it is the continual degradation of our lifestyle, as well as , terms and conditions of employment that is the problem.
Our management regards us and treats us as if we are disposable. This has happened for many years to the cabin crew, they are now doing it to us. It in effect has become part of the company culture.
PPrune serves as the only vehicle we have to bitch and moan and share our frustrations. If you find it annoying to listen to, don't read it :ok:

Wake up and smell the coffee...
 

>>Our management regards us and treats us as if we are disposable.<<

I hate to burst your bubble, ruserious, but it has been ever thus with all airlines in the middle east...and many other places as well.:hmm:

Reading all the posts about EK, I'm wondering if it is worth my $1500 airfare to go to the interview. :confused:

TP

The facts sounded clear enough to me.

Ruserious (and other bitchers and moaners....sounds good)

Bitch away.....but snide remarks (Gillegan) only drive people with a different perspective away from the dark side. Let the likes of TP state his facts, correct them for the present if need be, but I want to hear what he has to say as well as the bitches.

But of course, tactically, we want to convince the world and ourselves how dark it really is here.

airbustoboeing

If you base your career decisions on what you read in prune (good or bad) then I wouldn't bother wasting $1500.

411A

Should that be "most businesses in the world"?

12 days of leave in July but still rostered for 80 hours block the remaining days off. So in other words EK has found a way so that you actually pay your own leave.

I think that TCAS once told us that this was not going to happen!!!???:D

Manual adjustment may be required....

Typhoon Pilot
 

You have not had 13 days off in any month this year let alone an average. You are clearly counting rest days as days off. Just goes to show that you are happy to manipulate facts to try and support your pro company stance.

I have no problem with you being pro company, just don't mislead others with mischievious answers.

The question asked was how many days off do you get per month. Now go back and look at your rosters and tell us how many days off you have really had.

Stick to the facts.

Devils Advocate
 

Vorsicht Typoon Pilot said Your talking about 2006 TP is talking about 2005 2 different years in my book.

TP did not tell any porkies.

Have to say my average days off more like 9 a month I'm just a line guy. Been my experience that the company will work the butt of you then you stand round doing nothing. Done the 900 hr maximum hour thingy and I try and avoid going Ultra Long haul Flights.

Even had X0 or Extra days off because being high on hours and had the company ring me up to do...wait for it SIMM SUPPORT.....which I regretfully declined.

Doesn't matter which fleet your on these days now or in the future your going to end up working harder.

airbus2boeing

If you're unemployed you have to come and try for a job otherwise do yourself a favour and save our money. :ugh:

Yup. Average this year of 9 days off per month. Had 8 days leave in March so only got rostered for 82 hours. The other months have been quite busy.

Top bidding month!!
 

May was my top bid, I had totally 15 days off. So, in those "active" 16 days I logged 88:45.... I don't mind to fly if I just have my days off, but when you're able to bid off (possibly) You'll fly anyhow as mmuch as the system can create. I just hope dear fellow pilot frinds that you are not accepting this new "Implementation of Open Time on Crew Portal". It is just another way for the company to find a solution out of foxhole they have created for them selves. If you are flying volunteer on your day off, you are p*ssing in your own pocket...your.... upgrade (if applicable) and so ON. Please, guy's consider before you volunteer.:cool:

Thanks Uplock.

As we all know it's easy to manipulate statisitics. Vorsicht thinks I've done that with my first post. I did not, was just simply answering the question with my 2005 schedule. I have also clearly stated that pilots will probably work harder in 2006 due to staffing and training issues.

So, just to show how easy it would be to manipulate the answer to a simple question of how many Days Off one has on average lets look at a couple of possible answers. We'll use my 2006 schedule now since it's the only one I have.

If I were to answer truthfully and pedantically how many Days off I've had in 2006 the results would look like this:

January 2006 = 10
February 2006 = 8
March 2006 = 10
April 2006 = 8
May 2008 = 8
June 2006 = 6

Now that would really make the naysayers happy wouldn't it ?

If we were to delve a little deeper and ask how many days do you have at home and included rest days and midnight returns ( that is those flights that block in from 0001 to about 0100. ) The answer would look like this:

January = 15
February = 12
March = 13
April = 13
May = 11
June = 8

Taking it that last step and adding vacation days would yield and even better answer to this question: " How many days do you get to spend with your family, should you so choose? " = This answer:

January = 15
February = 15
March = 20
April = 13
May = 17
June = 25 ( including 28 days in a row free of any duty starting in May )


The key here for those on the outside is to ask the right question for the information you seek. If you just ask for days off the vast majority of posters here will only answer with the number of xx days they have on a monthly roster. A pedantically correct answer, but probably not giving you the information you seek.


Helmet on, thick skin attached, flame away boys :ok:


Typhoonpilot

Typhoon Pilot and uplock
 

My point is, when someone asks a question in June 2006, he is not interested in what people were doing in June 2005. And as we all know, our lives have changed significantly over the last 1-2 years with regard to days off, and hours worked and hours paid.

I never said you lied. I just said that your answer was mischievious.

And rest days are just that. When you have consistently been working back of the clock, 90+ hrs a month, i don't think many rational people consider rest days as productive quality time doing recreational activities. Once again, misleading and mishievious.

Another point that begs a reply. If you were so happy with all your days off, why did you get into training.

We all know there is more money to be made on the line. My guess is, it is because you were sick and tired of being sick and tired, so decided to go training in order to stay at home and sleep in your own bed once in a while. Therefore i would hypothesise that you don't even believe your own BS.

Just over 8 days of per month so far this year, looks a bit different to your original post , however factual it may be.

As for the bits of other days , I'm pretty sure that when asked about days off it was xx days the guy was after, ie whole days without duty, in other words days off, not rest days because they are , well days for rest and a duty that is 15 hours long and gets you home at 8am is also not day off despite the the fact you spend most of the day at home, well in bed mostly.

Emirates is not a charity we all realise that, neither is it a rest home for the world weary airline pilot, but the roster quality and lack of crew make it a very tiring place to be. Fatigue is a constant problem for many people as is poor quality of life when they do get their 8 days of recuperation. A few more crew and less restrictive roster build criteria would be great. If I want to do 3 JFK in a month why cant I, same for trips to Europe, why only 3 allowed. I would hazard a guess at the piss poor bidding system and general ineptitude of the management to realise that it would not take much to please people, and I know that you will never please all of the people all of the time, our bosses use that as excuse tho' not to do anything.

TP, you are happy , that much is obvious, from your many postings on this and other forums. I'm glad you are happy, but you and a very few others are the exception rather than the rule.

It's hard to quantify how many people are happy with EK at the moment, depends on background and expectations, our American brothers, from both North and South are blissfully happy with there new lot, and I bet that our Local management are pissing themselves laughing at pilots willing to prostitute themselves to the lowest bidder.

I know how hard it is to get genuine factual info about Emirates and how we work , but like the stock market past performance is no indication are future performance. We work harder than we should for the salary we get.
I just wish I knew then what I know now, and is seems a shame that it has gone downhill so quickly so fast, when I joined there was little negative written about EK. Has change now, there is very little positive written, and I think the best way of putting it is, "it's better than no job ,but not by much" .

It used to be regarded as thee job to get, now it's just a quick way to wide body time before you get a proper job with a decent carrier....


EMIRATES...English
Managed
Indian run
Arabs
Take
Enormous
Salaries

dayz orff wherever
 

Very interesting read ...

Just flicked through todays telegraph (uk) according to the Saudi oil minister if Dubya decides to drop something on Iran the price of oil will TREBLE.

So which is better working for a company owned by someone with their own oil ( down wind maybe?)or an outfit where everything is going to stop due to fuel costs?

BTW it is not just in the ME that you are having to work harder it is sadly everywhere, just without the benefits of low to zero tax free house etc

I do not mean to have a dig at you EK chaps but it is the industry globally that is sliding down the crapper and there is very little if anything any of us can do about it.

Keep it safe
BBO

Big Bald One
 

You are right on the money. That's what most people seem to fail to understand. EK is no different to anywhere else. Except that you are living in an undeveloped country where you have few rights and 45 degrees for 4 months. That maybe an improvement for some but its not for most.

See things as they really are, not how you wish them to be.

Am I missing something or are guys really having "guns put to their heads" and forced to sign a contract and emigrate..OR.. do they go cos it is no worse than anywhere else, in fact can be a whole lot better.

One thing I do know is 45 degs is bloody hot but it's a dry heat :E .

Kidding.

12 minus 4 equals..... 8 months of pretty nice wx against 2 weeks ok stuff in the UK and 50 weeks of :mad: .

I know that in a factual sense the grass is greener elsewhere but green grass don't fill up your car or pay the kids fees. The latest from the office of national stats in the UK says that since TB and his gang got into power every family is paying £8,000 a year more in tax. So in real terms my salary has gone down without the variances of exchange rates just some:mad: er stealing it.

Got to go and have drink now every time I think about TB I just want to get drunk!

BBO

If it's dry heat maybe you could explain to me why even the windows sweat:}

Yes
Nobody put a gun to our heads 10 years ago, just slapped us about the head repeatedly, over the last 4 years or so

No amount of money, tax free or otherwise, replaces the quality of life that comes with an established community in a democratic country.

Sure you may be able to buy all the toys you want (although you wont have any money left) but try and join your kid up to the local football competition. Sure you can get a beer, but going to a 5 star pub everytime you want a drink is not quite the same as your local.

Try and lobby you local MP to get a speed hump outside your school.

Classic article in yesterdays paper about workers safety. The government reply, as always, is "but we have laws". Sure they have lots of laws, like the ones that say you can't drive dangerously, but they are never enforced. So while they (the government) can claim to be doing their bit to improve things, in reality they are doing nothing. People are dying on the roads and in the workplace because the goverment fails to enforce the law.

As I said, try to see things how they really are. It is not the same as living at home and having a tax free salary. And to answer your question, yes you are missing the point.

To come here you need to be in a position that you can stay for 5-10 years and walk away. If you are in that position then it is great. What has happened to many here is that they came with that expectation, but once here realise that it is likely they will be here for the rest of their career if they want to accumulate the sort of money they expected. As this realisation dawns on people, so too does the fact that conditions are always changing for the worse (like most places) and that the dream of putting a few bucks away and enjoying an early retirement somewhere nice is quickly slipping away.

145qrh

That has to be the best post I have ever read on PPRUNE. Very factual and unemotional. This time next year you will be including your 8 days off HOWEVER during those days you had to log-on, which will be monitored, and do company work for your recurrent - where are the days to recover !!!

Very eloquent, not to mention accurate Vorsicht.