Nevrekar

I worked there from 1997-1999. It was great then but I hear things are now different, and not as positive. The management is now mostly Saudi although many of the pilots are expats. To the best of my knowledge they are still partial to hiring U.S and Canadians.

They offer an excellent pay package, housing, vacation etc. F/O's can expect to make 70-80K USD taxfree. Capts probably 120K. The fleet consists of 737-700's, DHC-8's, CE-550, DHC-6, Hawkers, GIV's. The 767 is based in Houston. You can find openings and minimum requirements at www.jobsataramco.com.

Negatives include management indifference (I'm told), living in Saudi and the constant threat of terrrorism (Abqaig-recently). Think hard if you have a family and plan to go there.

fly_guy100

Can a US citizen male apply to be a flight attendant? I went on the website and it didnt give me much info. It only gave info about a supervisor flight attendant position.

Nevrekar

The general "unwritten policy" when I was there was that the only male F/A's hired were on the Boeing aircraft and they were all from the third world. They had one male Canadian management type there. The 737's stayed in the kingdom. For all the other flights that involved the ministers or royals, all the F/A's were female. No exceptions.

Riggwelter

I've been there for several years and am very, very happy. True there are problems as you will note in other threads, things that will make you frustrated but as far as the important stuff goes Aramco has it all in Spades. Allow me to elaborate.

Terms and Endearment: Pay is based on Nationality. If you're an American or Canadian you are on the money train, no one else in the region comes remotely close, bar none. In this category money is very good, school is free, heath beni's are comprehensive, tickets home, and vacation time are industry leading. However, Aramco's pay scheme really shows it's legs if you stick around for a while. For example, an American can get retirement benifits after 10 years of service(and age 50). If you're UK, Ozzie, or Kiwi, it's o.k. to pretty good, the moneys fair but as I understand the benefits are not as generous as US/Canadian/Saudi. If you're Asian or "other arab" you can probably do better elsewhere in the region.

Accomodations: Aramco's Dhahran compound is about 10 square miles in area, very green, and is composed of 2,200 homes in 65 different configurations(about 15 major types and variations thereof). It's definitely not the most luxurious in Saudi but it's like a good suburb in Arizona, the big bonus is it's huge (several thousand families and bachelors together) and the facilities are second to none, pick an activity and you can most likely do it.10 soccer fields, 40 tennis courts, several pools, full gyms, wood shop, car shop (both industrial grade and virtually free to use), bowling alley, library, cafeteria and snack bars, dozens of playgrounds, skateboard park, green 18 hole golf course ,bmx track, Horse stables, Yacht club, art complex, and on and on, really too much to list. The houses are in great shape and mx is free and overall pretty good. Most parents agree that the compound is a fantastic place to raise a young family. As a bachelor it's got great facilities but lacks the more vibrant social life of a place like Manama or Dubai.

The job: With the exception of VIP flights in the G-IV( soon to be G-550) you will be home virtually every night. You will fly 3-6 times a week and usually the duty day is 5-8 hours, though there are a couple of longer flights. Earliest flight starts around 5:30 am and last flight arrives around midnight. The Dash 8 and B 737 are basically busses that commute between the cities and the remote oil sites. 3-6 legs a day with 40 minute legs are the average. We also do "special operations" which is basically photo survey in a ce-550 and oil spill dispersal lin an AT-802 (cropduster), we also conduct medi vac and the very occasional SAR flights in the Dash 8. The VIP stuff is called "Special Flights" and is typical VIP stuff; on call alot and when you go lots of sitting around and waiting, having said that Special Flights also fly the least of all the aircrews (100-200 hours per year as opposed to 500 for everyone else). The equipment in every fleet is absolutely top notch (HUD, EGPWS, FMC, Big engines, etc.) and MX is overall very good. Suffice to say that while you're mostly stuck in Saudi it will be the most diverse flying you'll find under one company.

As with most places, if you want to find stuff to get upset about, Saudi Aramco won't disappoint you. Even if you are a positive person with a good sense of humor you will sometimes be faced with some really dumb and frustrating situations. Having said that, I find that most of the frustrating stuff is no worse and actually pales in comparison to stuff our colleagues face at other companies worldwide. For example, while I am annoyed at some policies or situations I have never worried about my paycheck coming at the end of the month.
In summary, Aramco is a pretty good deal, depending on your nationality. I find that most family people like it and most singles do not. Bahrain is close by and that helps but again, it's not what I would consider a really happening place in terms of night life. Having said that, some of the craziest parties I've been to were in Saudi.
Two caveats, though;
Caveat #1: Pilots in Aramco are split into two groups; employees and contractors. This thread is about employees. These days any new pilot will start as a contractor and if the company likes them, there is a vacancy, and the moons are in alignment, they will be offered a full time job. In the past 6 months there have been 6 offers of full time employment that were accepted. I would say that everyone that accepted the offer is appears very happy about it.
Caveat #2: Everyone is concerned about security in Saudi Arabia. While nothing is gauranteed I think Aramco is a safe place to work, and Saudi Arabia (at least in the eastern province) is a safe place to be. Unfortunately Saudi Arabia suffers from "plane crash" syndrome. That is to say, everyone makes a huge fuss when there is a disaster but statistically speaking you are more likely to die crossing a busy road. Anyway, my two cents (actually more like a buck fifty! )

777junkie

Riggwelter,that was one hell of a good reply.Pretty comprehensive.Keep it up.

Nevrekar

Yes I agree that was a great post. All always the grass is always greener on the other side. ARAMCO is a top notch company when it comes to pay and benefits.
Also very family oriented. They will send you back home ASAP when you have a family emergency. I can say that based on first hand experience. You just have to weigh what is important to you. I calculated that each year at ARAMCo was about equal to 3 years of work stateside, financially speaking. So 5 years there and you could have quite a nestegg. 10 years and you're done!

vagabond 47

Is Vic (f-18) still there?

Cheers.

Riggwelter

Vic is still here, and doing quite well. If you private email me I'll forward him your email.

pltskiracer

Very nice post Riggwelter. I will be in the contrac pilot category category. So whats it like for a contract pilot??
I am a single guy, norwegian national currently flying charter in a B737-800.

vagabond 47

Riggwelter.

Tell Vic to retire and take his Aramco Pension so that the Oil Price can ease back off $USD 70/barrel.
Cheers.

Riggwelter

Vagabond 47,
If Vic's staying is keeping oil prices up, I hope he doesn't leave soon!! Vic is actually a second generation Aramcon (he grew up here while his folks worked for Aramco) and like the other "Aramco Brats" he's probably sticking around because he really likes the place. As Nevrekar accurately said, you put ten years in here and you're set. At the interview we're told "Stay with Aramco ten years and you can build any house want, stay 20 and you can put it on top of any mountain you want." Vic falls into the latter category so I'm pretty certain financial security is no longer his main motivation for sticking around.

PLtskiracer, here's the info on contractors:

Terms and Endearment:Pay is around $7,500 per month (as B 737-700 F/O), plus a free ticket to your domicile (point of origin) once a year. The schedule is 10 weeks on, three weeks off. You are NOT paid during the off time, so net result is ~$70,000 tax free per year. Contractors do not recieve Iqamas (residence papers) so you cannot own a car and other silly stuff like that, Having said that many guys have found workarounds for all that. We're short F/O wise, so the work is a little bit busy(4-6 days a week) but as I mentioned earlier we have short duty periods (4-7 hours on the job, plus the commute is 40 minutes each way, but you're chauffered in a Suburban, so we read, chat, sleep or iPod) and you work early in the morning (4:15 pickup for 6:00 departure, usually done well before noon) or pickup early afternoon and work until 6-10 pm), basically were picking people up before work and dropping them off at work in the field or taking people home. Most think this is the easiest flying job they've had, work wise. You'll have more downtime than you know what do do with, most of us play sports, have a hobby, video games, or hang out, since we all live in the same compound it reminds me of University life.There is no bid list, work is pretty much shared equally, and everyone flys all the routes. I forgot to mention earlier that the Boeing goes to only 11 regular destinations, so combined with clear skies, no traffic, no terrain (except one place, and it's gnarly), great equipment, safety first mentality (i.e. no pressure to rush or cut corners) and pretty cool crewmates the flying is actually quite (dare I say it?) fun. It's the only place I know where we're encouraged to hand fly 3 mile visual approaches and we're cleared VFR and off ATC at FL240.The accomodations are very nice. Contractors are provided a 700 sq foot bachelor pad with a living room and kitchen downstairs and the bedroom and bathroom upstairs. It's clean, well maintained, and the nurses and secretaries live in the same neighborhood. You also have a tiny front yard and laundry room. I'm not certain but I think medical is NOT covered, except for emergency medicine (break a leg in a car wreck and we'll fix you). As long as it's not serious you can get cheap and adequate medical attention in Bahrain or even Saudi. You're driven to work, uniforms are provided and cleaned for you, and the food is good enough that most of us bring it home. It is very easy to save the majority of your money and guys have left here after three years with quite a chunk of change.

Lifestyle: More than any place Aramco is what you make of it. It's easy to hang out and have a hobby, there are facilities galore. As the work schedule is light, you'll have time to indulge in anything that tickles your fancy, as I said earlier, most guys are into some sort of sport(s). Socially there are lots of private parties and get togethers, and it's fairly easy to make friends. The weather is really nice from October to April (10-30c) and mostly sunny. The summer is hot, and in August to end of September, pretty humid. Bahrain is only an hour away and much more liberal than Saudi Arabia, clubs, girls, movies, etc.

The bad stuff: The big thing I see that makes most contractors leave is actually two things. First, you never have a good idea if, when, or ever, you'll be offered a job in Aramco. Hiring seems to happen in spurts every two years, and if you miss the boat it can be very frustrating. This coupled with the fact that you can't bring any significant others to Saudi (wife, kids, girlfriend, boyfriend, dog, whatever) can lead to a lot of stress from home. We lose lots of great guys because we do not hire them in a timely manner and they want to get back together with their loved ones. Guys with no ties can and do stay here for several years.
Second, chaos. For a company to have a 99.96% (or something like that) on time dispatch rate for aircraft it's amazing that there is so much chaos regarding promotions, training, vacations, visas, iqamas, housing, internet access, etc. As mentioned earlier in the thread there seems to be a problem at a management level with handling some issues that are near and dear to all employees hearts. It can be very trying, frustrating, inconvienient, and stressful trying to get the company to attend to your needs. I sometimes wonder if Dilbert wasn't an Aramco employee. Having said that, however, it almost always seems like in the end (like at the very last, absolute second) everything gets done, more or less. Also, kudos to our management for almost always pulling out the stops when it really, really counts. Death in the family? The company will have you on a plane and on your way home within 24 hours, you can come back when you've sorted it out. Once you're an employee it's even better; Lose your medical? As long as you're not dead the company will keep you on full salary if it looks like there's a chance you'll recover your medical, and I'm not talking a week,but I've seen over a year in at least one case.
In short, It's really a pretty unique place. Even though the equipment is immaculate and Aviation really runs like clockwork it's very casual, no one in the company wears a tie and we all know each other (there's about 70 fixed wing guys). You can fly a B737 or Dash 8 to the cities, a Twin Otter out to the desert, A crop duster at 30 feet, a single pilot photo reconnaisisance jet (well, a citation with a hole in its floor), or VIP's in G-IV's and Hawker 800's, so if you like to fly there's plenty of different things you can do. Hisotrically it takes around 9-12 years for someone to enter the company and work his way to the top positions in the Boeing and G-IV fleet, which isn't so bad, considering the number of aircraft types and seats you'll be filling. For now, the price of oil is hurting everyone in our industry except us, and it looks like the price is here to stay for a good long while.
Again, I've really rambled, but I know when I was looking at other jobs I was dying to get inside info, so, I hope this helps. Happy hunting.

Dr_Vandenburg

Riggwelter... what a selfless and kind man you are to say the very least.
Indeed when others are searching for information within the industry this forum always hides the answers in one form or another.

There are some very helpful people wondering the corridors of this site.
May we see more of them and less of the pot stirers.

It is people like you the world needs more of.

God bless you.

BrasiliaCaptain

Riggwelter,

Thanks for the great information on Aramco. I am an Aramco brat, and I've been seriously considering returning to Saudi to fly for Aramco. My father has been with Aramco for almost 15 years as an engineer. He's retiring later this year.

Right now, I'm an ATR captain and instructor pilot with a large regional airline. I really, really like my IP job, but the turmoil in the airline industry is knocking on my employer's door right now. I am very close to finishing my BS degree. I have 5700 hours of total time, almost 1000 hours of jet time, and 1150 or so hours of PIC time in turboprops.

One thing my father has told me over and over again about Aramco is the way he has been treated. I've seen the Dilbert thing first-hand, but I've also seen how they treated him when he had to have major surgery, and he is very well-compensated for what he does, and he really likes the vacation time he gets.

I've sent resumes to Aramco many times over the years; the last time I gave it to Khalil Joharji in person, he told me that if I had time in type (DHC-8 or Boeing 737), they would gladly hire me. Are they still looking for guys with time in type? Would I stand a chance at being offered an interview right now?

Once again, thanks for the good info Riggwelter, and I hope someone has some good input for me, positive or negative.

Riggwelter

Doc,
Man, thats alot of love you're showering on me, as per your private email I'll take it as a compliment. Doc was also wondering about employment as a Flight Attendant, Nevrekars explanation was accurate but I'll expound.

W have two types of flight attendants, VIP flight attendants and "everyone else" flight attendants. The VIP flights are staffed by women only, no exceptions. They are from Oz, Godzone (NZ), France, and The U.S. They fly only on the G-IV and are paid around $25,000 and live on camp with us. They have a very nice work schedule and from what I hear the passengers they care for are great. They are contractors and not employees. As far as I know there is no possiblity of becoming an Aramcon.


The regular flight attendants are employees of Unasco, an Aviation contracting company in Saudi Arabia. They are males, only, and are from third world countries with a growing proportion of Saudi Nationals. They work very hard and are in my opinion very poorly paid (like sub $1000) and live off camp in a communal apartment block. Unless you are from a 3rd world country and really need money I would not suggest entertaining a job as a flight attendant at Aramco. As I mentioned they are contracted out from a local provider, and provides no beni's except for a low salary.

The flight Attendant supervisor's name is Abraham "Andy" Ohanes, he IS an employee of Aramco, and I see we are advertising for a position similar to his. This link will take you to a page that describes his job: Just click "Aviation" and then Flight Attendant supervisor.
http://www.jobsataramco.com/index1.html



BrasiliaCaptain;

An Aramco Brat, huh? We have a few flying for us and usually we hire you guys on principle, The only thing as far as I can tell thats holding you back is the degree thing. It has nothing to do with the Aviation department but is a Govornment requirement that you have a 4 year degree. Your flight time sounds more than adequate,numbers wise. Do you have any 737, Hawker 800, CE-550, or Dash 8 time? If not, I know one guy who went and bought a 737 type (we used to have 737-200's and it was about $6000 to get checked out) and was able to get hired on. He was a fighter pilot and had zero multi time, but he had friend on the inside and we gave him a quick checkride over here in the plane, he was really good so he got the job. I guess I'm saying that while we do prefer guys with time in type (and currency) we have under certain circumstances hired guys without time. I would apply again and strongly suggest having your dad talk to anyone he knows in the company who can help you. Does Gary Bain in Houston already have your resume? If you could show up in person and do a check out ride that would go a long way to helping you get a job (provided, of course you kick butt). I know for a fact we are hiring and I'd say you have a pretty good chance. Finish your degree and get someone on the inside working for you. By the way, did you go to Aramco schools?
Two more very important things, if you check the link I gave above it will also show jobs for pilots, it's a little out of date and says we need Hawker and Dash 8 Captains, that may be true but I know our current focus is 737 F/O's. Also, the job description states that a degree is NOT required for the job provided you have 3000 hours, I'm honestly not sure what this means, maybe as a contractor you do not need a degree, or maybe now we are hiring without a degree. I don't know, sorry. Good luck!

BrasiliaCaptain

Riggwelter,

Thanks for the response. Yes, I went to Aramco schools, but only for the last half of the 9th grade, then it was off to boarding school. Dhahran Class of 1992, that's me. I actually asked Gary Bain a couple of years ago if it would be worth getting my B-737 type rating to make myself competitive, and he didn't think it would make a huge difference at the time. I should give him a call sometime and see what he has to say. I rode Gary's jumpseat when I was a returning student; most returning students tried to get trashed on sid, I tried to hop on the jumpseat of the 737 whenever I could to learn as much as I can. I liked those old -200s. I'm definitely going to get the connections in motion through my dad's contacts. When the job posting said that they were looking for Dash 8 captains, I got pretty excited. I don't have time in any aircraft in Aramco's fleet, but I've been flying big turboprops for many years now. Of course, I'm not too particular about which aircraft they put me on if I get the job. I think finishing the degree will help, and I hope to be finished late this year. Thanks again for all of the info so far, and I'll keep you posted on my progress.

opster

For those reading this thread, the comments by Riggwelter and Navrekar are probably the most accurate and unbiased you'll find concerning Aramco.
Opster
(Aramco emplyee: 1980-1985, 1997-2000

Dr_Vandenburg

Riggwelter,

Many thanks for the reply, cleared up lots of questions I had.

atuk

Hmmm..interesting. Correct me if im wrong.. does aramco allow flyin 2 @ afew a/c type at the same time. I've got some 8000+ tt, currently capt/IP 737-400 with about 3500hr on type-all P1, 3700hr twin-otter time & rest are Fokker50 n ab-initio time. The idea of flyin a few a/c type at the same time sounds pretty exciting...bored of airline flyin..

Riggwelter

Atuk,
Yes, Aramco allows flying of two types at the same time. Several years ago a Safety Audit recommended that our pilots be allowed to fly more than one type at the same time to help dispel complacency. Currently we have the following aircraft pairings:

Dash-8 F/O - CE-550 F/O
Dash 8 F/O - Hawker 800 F/O
B 737 F/O - AT -802 Captain
Hawker Captain - G-IV F/O
Dash 8 Captain - Twin Otter Captain
CE-550 Captain - AT-802 Captain
B 737 captain - AT-802 Captain
B 737 Captain - Twin Otter Captain

We also have many pilots who fly both left and right seat on the same aircraft type.

Although this list only shows what's currently going on we've had virtually every concievable combination happen, including a very few guys selected for triple positions (usually F/O in all three seats like CE-550, Dash 8, B 737) and senior management guys holdng G-IV Captain - B 737 Captain.
Lately to avoid scheduling problems we've moved away from having people hold positions in two "busy fleets" I.e. no Dash 8 - B 737 combos, however, if you're current in both and needed we do move guys around as required (usually to cover a temporary shortage), pay by the way, is not affected by position filled. You could be paid like a 737 Captain but fly as skipper in the Twin Otter (becaue primarily you are a 737 Captain).
In fact our pay is very different than most airline ops, it's complicated but in short you come in at a pre negotiated salary and it just goes up (and up) each year. Unlike most other airlines we ARE evaluated SUBJECTIVELY based on performance, personal skills, whether you're upgrading eqiupment, extra duties performed (officework, extra aircraft flying, etc.) and other stuff that management deems important. Average increases vary between 4% and 15% per year. Being pilots we always whine about the injustice of our merit increase but in reality very, very few leave because they weren't paid enough for the work performed. Of course theres alot of other variables that go into pay,but I'm really deviating from your question, I just wanted to press home the point that you are typically paid for the highest paying position you perform.
As far as flying multiple types I think it's great, no one is really forced to do it and many actively ask for it (I always have), I consider it a major perk of working fror Aramco; you can bush fly while still making airline wages. If you're tired of airline flying try this for a bit, it's really different, even if you only fly our 737 operation, it's unique.

atuk

Interesting. Worked with MHS Aviation in Malaysia which provide air transport services to Shell and other oil company for 5 yrs before joining my national airline-MH. The idea of flyin a few type of a/c at the same time always excites me...but... ...that is..hmmm