Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Worldwide > Middle East
Reload this Page >

EK Pilot Mental Health Survey-2023

Middle East Many expats still flying in Knoteetingham. Regional issues can be discussed here.

EK Pilot Mental Health Survey-2023

Old 12th Sep 2023, 00:43
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Cutting grass on more unpaid leave
Age: 43
Posts: 141
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
EK Pilot Mental Health Survey-2023

Aa an ex-serving EK pilot, please respond to the following questions:

1. As an EK pilot, if I felt depressed and/or am suicidal, I would freely report this to an EK AME to get the help needed; or

2. Iím already on the SSRI anti depressant pills and bid for the ULR cargo flights, and take my pills after customs in DWC that I hid in my pants;

3. I hide my depression diagnosis until I leave the airline, then try to help others but itís already too late for me.
Yorkshire_Pudding is offline  
Old 12th Sep 2023, 05:48
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: stuttgart
Posts: 275
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Yorkshire_Pudding
Aa an ex-serving EK pilot, please respond to the following questions:

1. As an EK pilot, if I felt depressed and/or am suicidal, I would freely report this to an EK AME to get the help needed; or

2. Iím already on the SSRI anti depressant pills and bid for the ULR cargo flights, and take my pills after customs in DWC that I hid in my pants;

3. I hide my depression diagnosis until I leave the airline, then try to help others but itís already too late for me.
kind of obsolete questions
you canít tell your EK AME if you are snoring, and if you do see what happens next - sleeping like Darth vader on your own expense!
flyTheBigFatLady is offline  
Old 12th Sep 2023, 23:53
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Sisjordan
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I just get tired of seeing things about this company in this forum. Everyday a crazy guy says something. Rooster is bad? But do they follow the GCAA regulation? So you know what to expect... Is training bad? or was that you? What about giving a feedback if so? Salary or benefits are not good? Sorry, for all the 5 golden eggs people from all the world applies based in the ME are almost the same thing, little differences that at the end of the day will not define which one to choose. annoying pilots in the cockpit are everywhere, try not to be one of them, but worst than them, is someone trying to burn a company reputation in a internet forum. Go there, not good? Move on. Dont put things in the head of guys trying to get a nice job and that could think about not applying because of bullsht someone posts here. Maybe the company was not for you, but will be a huge advance for someone and someones family giving then some opportunities they would never had back home.
BOEINGANDROLEX is offline  
Old 13th Sep 2023, 06:10
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: stuttgart
Posts: 275
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by BOEINGANDROLEX
I just get tired of seeing things about this company in this forum. Everyday a crazy guy says something. Rooster is bad? But do they follow the GCAA regulation? So you know what to expect... Is training bad? or was that you? What about giving a feedback if so? Salary or benefits are not good? Sorry, for all the 5 golden eggs people from all the world applies based in the ME are almost the same thing, little differences that at the end of the day will not define which one to choose. annoying pilots in the cockpit are everywhere, try not to be one of them, but worst than them, is someone trying to burn a company reputation in a internet forum. Go there, not good? Move on. Dont put things in the head of guys trying to get a nice job and that could think about not applying because of bullsht someone posts here. Maybe the company was not for you, but will be a huge advance for someone and someones family giving then some opportunities they would never had back home.
if that was targeted to me

ok I know 6 guys personally who ended up in a sleeping test center coming home with a machining including the mask, which has to be worn at night while asleep. The device has to be bought out of the patients pocket and your medical was hanging on it.
all have mentioned something about snoring and ended up in a sleep test center. Just to let you know - these are things are real are actually happening there - now go figure what happens if you tell someone you are on anti depressants or you actual need them!
flyTheBigFatLady is offline  
Old 13th Sep 2023, 07:00
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2023
Location: In the sky
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by BOEINGANDROLEX
I just get tired of seeing things about this company in this forum. Everyday a crazy guy says something. Rooster is bad? But do they follow the GCAA regulation? So you know what to expect... Is training bad? or was that you? What about giving a feedback if so? Salary or benefits are not good? Sorry, for all the 5 golden eggs people from all the world applies based in the ME are almost the same thing, little differences that at the end of the day will not define which one to choose. annoying pilots in the cockpit are everywhere, try not to be one of them, but worst than them, is someone trying to burn a company reputation in a internet forum. Go there, not good? Move on. Dont put things in the head of guys trying to get a nice job and that could think about not applying because of bullsht someone posts here. Maybe the company was not for you, but will be a huge advance for someone and someones family giving then some opportunities they would never had back home.
There it is again- the rooster 😂

When it comes to the GCAA regulation your are probably referring to the Flight time and Duty Limitations.

As it says in itself - itís a LIMITATION! Thatís the MAXIMUM one could potentially do on the occasional basis, but should not do over and over again.

One of the problems is, EK turned this Limitation into a target over the years and that is a massive problem in regards to fatigue and health issues.

In regards to the snoring and potential sleep apnea problem. I know three guys personally, who told their AME accidentally about the fact, they snore on the occasional basis. All of them ended up in a sleep lab and two of them had to pay out of their pockets for one of these apnea compressors.

There are implications one should be aware of picking up this job and yes the perception is definitely different, depending on where you come fromÖ

Where I come from, would I do it again?! Nope



FQT2YS is offline  
Old 13th Sep 2023, 07:52
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Dubai
Age: 55
Posts: 313
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by flyTheBigFatLady
i now go figure what happens if you tell someone you are on anti depressants or you actual need them!
I believe there are 5000 pilots under investigation in the land of the free and brave for this - doesn't seem your point is limited to Emirates.

As to sleep apnea, that is actually a very real and deadly threat. Perhaps the company is doing these individuals a favour. Agreed it is not pleasant and expensive, but then again, so is dying.
Kennytheking is offline  
Old 13th Sep 2023, 14:26
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: not radlett
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Kennytheking
As to sleep apnea, that is actually a very real and deadly threat. Perhaps the company is doing these individuals a favour. Agreed it is not pleasant and expensive, but then again, so is dying.
Yes, 1 in 4 males over 30 suffer from it according to an Australian health site. It's a miracle that so many of our colleagues are still with us, those masks must be pretty good. Hang on... most of us don't admit to the snoring.

Wasn't it part of the long gone gnomes empire building strive for better health for flight crew along with BMI?

https://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/...s/sleep-apnoea

radlettrejoin is offline  
Old 14th Sep 2023, 06:07
  #8 (permalink)  
short flights long nights
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 3,821
Received 90 Likes on 33 Posts
Originally Posted by radlettrejoin
Yes, 1 in 4 males over 30 suffer from it according to an Australian health site. It's a miracle that so many of our colleagues are still with us, those masks must be pretty good. Hang on... most of us don't admit to the snoring.

Wasn't it part of the long gone gnomes empire building strive for better health for flight crew along with BMI?

https://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/...s/sleep-apnoea
You got it in one. It was all the Gnome. He once told me he was pushing to have all pilots with a BMI not above 25!. I wonder if that idea got him any more letters after his name?
SOPS is offline  
Old 14th Sep 2023, 08:58
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Doomadgee
Posts: 262
Received 39 Likes on 20 Posts
Boeingrolex -

I just get tired of seeing things about this company in this forum. Everyday a crazy guy says something.
Are you even at EK? By your posts you were COPA and Qatar.

I am sorry you are sick of guys telling you how things actually are at EK.

Thanks for your sage advice of [QUOTE]​​​​​​​[Go there, not good? Move on. Dont put things in the head of guys trying to get a nice job and that could think about not applying because of bullsht someone posts here/QUOTE]

but what about the 1000s of people who were there for years and years and were not given the choice to stay?

The ones who were not sacked are too scared to tell it how it is, and the ones who went back are also too scared to tell it how it is there.
Capn Rex Havoc is online now  
Old 14th Sep 2023, 11:01
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: stuttgart
Posts: 275
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
really you come across with a stat from Australia - wow

maybe au should work on their work life health balance. And now itís clear where the threat comes from, because not everybody who snores has automatically sleep apnea except in au apperently


flyTheBigFatLady is offline  
Old 14th Sep 2023, 13:43
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Dubai Hills
Age: 37
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
[QUOTE=Capn Rex Havoc;11502548]Boeingrolex -



Are you even at EK? By your posts you were COPA and Qatar.

I am sorry you are sick of guys telling you how things actually are at EK.

Thanks for your sage advice of
[[color=#222222]Go there, not good? Move on. Dont put things in the head of guys trying to get a nice job and that could think about not applying because of bullsht someone posts here/QUOTE]

but what about the 1000s of people who were there for years and years and were not given the choice to stay?

The ones who were not sacked are too scared to tell it how it is, and the ones who went back are also too scared to tell it how it is there.
Only the best pilots weren' sacked....that's what the untouched EK colleagues tend to believe. Hey believe whatever you need to, to stay healthy mentally.
You have to take care of yourself. No one else will.
Halas
​​​​​​​
Shazeem is offline  
Old 16th Sep 2023, 05:38
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Internet
Posts: 113
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Two points really, years ago it was pointed out to TCAS (the DSVP at the time) that we protect the engines, we don’t operate the engines at full power all the time as it’s not good for engine life and leads to increased maintenance. If we use full power all the time we would be in trouble!
Why then in comparison is rostering trying to use maximum flight hours every month?why does nobody care if flying so much with little time off leads to fatigue / medical / sleep / psychological or family problems! Why are pilots flight time limitations TARGETS, to which he came out with usual blah blah blah, fatigue system, rostering standards etc! He couldn’t care and that is EK attitude to this day.

Second point leading on from that is I’m sure if asked truthfully most pilots at EK suffer a constant amount of fatigue, sometimes it’s worse than others, but it’s constant fatigue. I know at my medical the doc always asks how I am, the reply is always tired but dealing with it the best I can, to which the doc then says you’re not alone! He says the senior AME doctors do tell Flt ops management but nothing changes and then he adds by the way the doctors are fatigued too, same problem!

that’s a small insight into EK for those interested!
Pif Paf is offline  
Old 16th Sep 2023, 11:02
  #13 (permalink)  
short flights long nights
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 3,821
Received 90 Likes on 33 Posts
Originally Posted by Pif Paf
Two points really, years ago it was pointed out to TCAS (the DSVP at the time) that we protect the engines, we donít operate the engines at full power all the time as itís not good for engine life and leads to increased maintenance. If we use full power all the time we would be in trouble!
Why then in comparison is rostering trying to use maximum flight hours every month?why does nobody care if flying so much with little time off leads to fatigue / medical / sleep / psychological or family problems! Why are pilots flight time limitations TARGETS, to which he came out with usual blah blah blah, fatigue system, rostering standards etc! He couldnít care and that is EK attitude to this day.

Second point leading on from that is Iím sure if asked truthfully most pilots at EK suffer a constant amount of fatigue, sometimes itís worse than others, but itís constant fatigue. I know at my medical the doc always asks how I am, the reply is always tired but dealing with it the best I can, to which the doc then says youíre not alone! He says the senior AME doctors do tell Flt ops management but nothing changes and then he adds by the way the doctors are fatigued too, same problem!

thatís a small insight into EK for those interested!
FWIWÖI did not realise how fatigued I was, until I had not flown for 6 months. The difference in how I felt, was amazing. Fatigue and all the problems it can lead to is very real in EKÖ and anyone who does not believe that is delusional.
SOPS is offline  
Old 19th Sep 2023, 01:54
  #14 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Cutting grass on more unpaid leave
Age: 43
Posts: 141
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by BOEINGANDROLEX
I just get tired of seeing things about this company in this forum. Everyday a crazy guy says something. Rooster is bad? But do they follow the GCAA regulation? So you know what to expect... Is training bad? or was that you? What about giving a feedback if so? Salary or benefits are not good? Sorry, for all the 5 golden eggs people from all the world applies based in the ME are almost the same thing, little differences that at the end of the day will not define which one to choose. annoying pilots in the cockpit are everywhere, try not to be one of them, but worst than them, is someone trying to burn a company reputation in a internet forum. Go there, not good? Move on..
Iím sorry, but at no point in my original post did I mention rosters, salary, training, GCAA, EK brand trashing, etc.

I opened a genuine pilot forum chat on airline pilot mental health at Emirates Airlines, and/or the ME3 in general. Because, until now it has been very much a taboo subject. Iím sorry if you are offended by the very nature of this open conversation, and perhaps, you would like it shut down. I understand.

I personally know of numerous ex-EK pilots that hid their mental health issues and sought help/medication prescriptions in secret outside of the UAE whilst serving their time in the sandpit, and buried their medical medical records/prescriptions etc overseas/online. Most of them have now now left the UAE, you will be pleased to hear.

if you have a genuine contribution to this forum post, we look forward to discussing your feedback.







Yorkshire_Pudding is offline  
Old 19th Sep 2023, 02:13
  #15 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Cutting grass on more unpaid leave
Age: 43
Posts: 141
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Virto
I'm sorry you faced such a problem.
Of course, you can hide that you tke antidepressants, but you can't be sure you won't face any side effects. This is a risk.
On one hand, you worry about your career, and it is understandable.
On the other hand, you ned to take care of your health and think about your personal life.
Do you have anyone at work you can trust and talk this situation over? Yes, there are rules and regulations, but there is also a human factor.
Germanwings was supposed to be The wake up call for our industry, yet we still have Emirates Airline pilots, past or present, that feel forced to resign solely over their mental health issues (perceived or otherwise). Hopefully the rosters and salaries will improve 👏
Yorkshire_Pudding is offline  
Old 3rd Oct 2023, 02:50
  #16 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Cutting grass on more unpaid leave
Age: 43
Posts: 141
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by SOPS
FWIWÖI did not realise how fatigued I was, until I had not flown for 6 months. The difference in how I felt, was amazing. Fatigue and all the problems it can lead to is very real in EKÖ and anyone who does not believe that is delusional.
Agreed. Falling over left, right and Centre from fatigue. Not being able to walk in a straight line to the hotel crew buffet. Welcome to ME U-ULR fatigue. Takes 6-8 months to realize it was the roster, not you. Then again, the sun always shines in Dubai 🫡
Yorkshire_Pudding is offline  
Old 3rd Oct 2023, 07:05
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: under the bridge
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Yorkshire_Pudding
Germanwings was supposed to be The wake up call for our industry, yet we still have Emirates Airline pilots, past or present, that feel forced to resign solely over their mental health issues (perceived or otherwise). Hopefully the rosters and salaries will improve 👏
Hopefully the rosters and salaries will improve 👏
Salaries might improve but rosters I guarantee they will not !! You will suffer fatigue even if you think you are fine!
All the best to you all in the ME carriers
flap1 is offline  
Old 3rd Oct 2023, 08:34
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Dubai Hills
Age: 37
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by flap1
Hopefully the rosters and salaries will improve 👏
Salaries might improve but rosters I guarantee they will not !! You will suffer fatigue even if you think you are fine!
All the best to you all in the ME carriers
I agree. The company is aiming for max asset efficiency as we are replaceable assets. Salaries might go up. Rosters will be "optimised" wrt max productivity and efficiency regarding legal constraints. Managing your fatique is even more so, your own responsibity.
​​​​​
Shazeem is offline  
Old 3rd Oct 2023, 21:07
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: New York
Posts: 95
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Kennytheking
I believe there are 5000 pilots under investigation in the land of the free and brave for this - doesn't seem your point is limited to Emirates.
.
Well thatís a complete misreading of what the issue is in the US. I know a few people caught up in this, itís concerning disability status (not exclusive to mental illness mind you) with the Veterans Administration and the FAA Medical Database which asks poorly worded questions then enter in multiple bureaucrats from both sides that want to fight it out and the end result is the 5000 airman in question having to submit the requested information concerning their disability (which was never asked in the FAA medical application form) to satisfy all the bureaucratic fiefdoms. Only 100 or so are under serious investigation for less innocent omissions.
VThokie2 is offline  
Old 5th Oct 2023, 22:50
  #20 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Cutting grass on more unpaid leave
Age: 43
Posts: 141
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by flap1
Hopefully the rosters and salaries will improve 👏
Salaries might improve but rosters I guarantee they will not !! You will suffer fatigue even if you think you are fine!
All the best to you all in the ME carriers
True 👏
Yorkshire_Pudding is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.