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Willing to leave RHS for LHS qatar/emirates

Middle East Many expats still flying in Knoteetingham. Regional issues can be discussed here.

Willing to leave RHS for LHS qatar/emirates

Old 15th Sep 2022, 07:24
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Originally Posted by Skyfl410
I worked for nine years in the middle east. I'm Currently back in the EU, working for a ''civilized'' airline...Based on my experience, I'm very disappointed in the T&C airlines offered in this '' Civilized'' world. I fly more than I used to in the ME with less than half the salary on a 5/3 roster, four sectors per day without food and only one 1litter of water offered by the airline. Without mentioning all the extra operations on the ground ecc ecc ecc ..
No worries...we are ''protected''... Let's tell our excellent, civilized manager/Unions to increase the salary and provide us with a snack on 10/13 hour duty and a 5/4 roster (which is still a killer) ....but the answer from our great managers was '' Like it or leave it''... this Sounds a bit like ME correct? So who's the slave now?

Let's report fatigue after a 13hours duty ...ahh, no, better not because the managers will want to ask why...
So better call in sick when you feel fatigued? Ahh, no, they don't pay when you are sick.
All these things are worst than the middle east and just a small part of this'' Protected and civilized'' world you like so much.

I passed a few interviews with other ''civilized'' airlines, but the story is always the same T&C suck. If you are not part of a major in the EU, you better do some flight hours and leave. Go to the middle EAST or Asia, where a pilot earns a good salary and still has a few practical benefits. It hurts to say, but it's the truth. Come back with full pockets and enjoy Europe as a tourist.

I'm glad to know you have 4/6 days off after a trip, and please tell us what reality you live in.
Well, I’m sorry you landed a crap job in a crap airline. I didn’t, I was lucky after more than 17 years in the ME. So my reality is great, I’m enjoying my new job, I have a great management and an awesome company culture. I fly less for the same money as in the ME, if I work more I’m making more than before. Again, sorry if that don’t fit your narrative.

I agree, LCC in Europe sucks, but nobody is forced to work there with a gun to their head. If you accept these shitty t&c‘s then don’t complain afterwards but look for something better.

There are great jobs out there, you just have to find them…
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Old 15th Sep 2022, 08:41
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Originally Posted by White Sausage
Well, Iím sorry you landed a crap job in a crap airline. I didnít, I was lucky after more than 17 years in the ME. So my reality is great, Iím enjoying my new job, I have a great management and an awesome company culture. I fly less for the same money as in the ME, if I work more Iím making more than before. Again, sorry if that donít fit your narrative.

I agree, LCC in Europe sucks, but nobody is forced to work there with a gun to their head. If you accept these shitty t&cĎs then donít complain afterwards but look for something better.

There are great jobs out there, you just have to find themÖ
Could not agree any more.
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Old 15th Sep 2022, 08:57
  #43 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by White Sausage
Well, Iím sorry you landed a crap job in a crap airline. I didnít, I was lucky after more than 17 years in the ME. So my reality is great, Iím enjoying my new job, I have a great management and an awesome company culture. I fly less for the same money as in the ME, if I work more Iím making more than before. Again, sorry if that donít fit your narrative.

I agree, LCC in Europe sucks, but nobody is forced to work there with a gun to their head. If you accept these shitty t&cĎs then donít complain afterwards but look for something better.

There are great jobs out there, you just have to find themÖ
if nobody signs those TnC they must go better, but pilots are their worst enemies, always have been.
there is always a few who feel happy to sign in, later complain and/or leave the outfit.

and I nobody would sign in on such TnC, and pilots are loosing their regencies airlines would be required to cover those costs later on too. So there is a way to change the system, but itís needs to be all together rather than complaining. I have my part not to sign up for everything- it was hard but it payed off now. I work less - I decide how much money I want to earn and control the income by controlling my flight hours. Yes itís not ideal but better than what all the LCC offer - by far
Training became a pleasure, not like with the best of the best, where you look which trainer comes across and you consider to call sick on a particular person in the back.
in EK only the minority was going into a check relaxed without any paranoia. And for some of them it ended badly not to be.
so what is world class in the dessert.
With AAR has the wrong count of sugar in his tea your career can change upside down in an blinck of an eye - because rules change instantly (ask all 330/340 guys) how things ended up with that fleet. Progress is depending on so many things in this company where you have absolute no influence - unlike than in many other carriers in a civilized world where seniority and flight hours have the saying over your career - not LCC of course.

Last edited by flyTheBigFatLady; 15th Sep 2022 at 13:40.
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Old 15th Sep 2022, 11:34
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Originally Posted by White Sausage
Well, Iím sorry you landed a crap job in a crap airline. I didnít, I was lucky after more than 17 years in the ME. So my reality is great, Iím enjoying my new job, I have a great management and an awesome company culture. I fly less for the same money as in the ME, if I work more Iím making more than before. Again, sorry if that donít fit your narrative.

I agree, LCC in Europe sucks, but nobody is forced to work there with a gun to their head. If you accept these shitty t&cĎs then donít complain afterwards but look for something better.

There are great jobs out there, you just have to find themÖ
Great jobs in Europe? Seriously?

90% of the jobs are LCC, other than that you can count on one hand or less the opportunities to get a DEC entry into a Legacy/Major. I am really curious to know How you can make a NET salary comparable to EK in Europe by working less. I spent 20 years in the ME most of those at EK and I relocated in the Old Continent getting into a LCC where I work as much as before for less than half the salary including different training allowances. You must have hit the jackpot.
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Old 15th Sep 2022, 13:16
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Originally Posted by nickler
Great jobs in Europe? Seriously?

90% of the jobs are LCC, other than that you can count on one hand or less the opportunities to get a DEC entry into a Legacy/Major. I am really curious to know How you can make a NET salary comparable to EK in Europe by working less. I spent 20 years in the ME most of those at EK and I relocated in the Old Continent getting into a LCC where I work as much as before for less than half the salary including different training allowances. You must have hit the jackpot.
Yes I hit the jackpot, absolutely. I didnít expect that but it happened. And yes, itís not a LCC or other bottom feeder but a pretty big widebody airline that treats me and quite a few former EK colleagues (all of us DEC) very very well. Nobody of us would ever go back.
I understand that we were very fortunate. Nevertheless itís not a mine is bigger than yours competition here (I think we left that behind in the ME) but just an honest opinion that one should be very careful to leave laws and rules behind and join EK. I had a good time there but these good times are way over since 2008 and itís getting worse and worse there.
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Old 15th Sep 2022, 13:36
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Originally Posted by nickler
Great jobs in Europe? Seriously?

90% of the jobs are LCC, other than that you can count on one hand or less the opportunities to get a DEC entry into a Legacy/Major. I am really curious to know How you can make a NET salary comparable to EK in Europe by working less. I spent 20 years in the ME most of those at EK and I relocated in the Old Continent getting into a LCC where I work as much as before for less than half the salary including different training allowances. You must have hit the jackpot.
of course you cannot make the net sal of EK in Europe itís an illusion.
nevertheless what is the quality of life you want. For EK and itís salary you have to give up everything, mostly your friends, family and yes also parts of your freedom. If you are happy to live in the golden cage yes of course it great, but donít forget after 10 years you start at zero at home and the big question is, is it worth it or is better to have a less paying job not giving up everything. I still believe the burden wich comes with EK, EK is by far not paying enough.
yet alone thinking about how suddenly against all promises the life in Dubai can end without any of your personal wrong doing, you left with absolute nothing.
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Old 15th Sep 2022, 13:45
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Originally Posted by Mike Koal
That must be a joke. Australians are generally harmless, the majority are the best pilots in the industry, just a reasonable percentage of them that are just very very different to most other aviators, never known what is particularly but it's just the way they operate and conduct themselves that can present some challenges in CRM. The vast majority are probably the best in the world though from my experience. All have a little bee in their Bonet still though.

Rest is fairly accurate.
idiocy doesnít have a nationality in this company.
never met an Ausi who had been difficult to work or go to the sim with. Most lads with personal problems in training are coming from a far more western place e.g. Europe impairing a big complex of being the best.
ausis i met may a Little strickt on Little things but that hasnít been bad at all.
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Old 15th Sep 2022, 16:24
  #48 (permalink)  
 
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Well, Iím sorry you landed a crap job in a crap airline. I didnít, I was lucky after more than 17 years in the ME. So my reality is great, Iím enjoying my new job, I have a great management and an awesome company culture. I fly less for the same money as in the ME, if I work more Iím making more than before. Again, sorry if that donít fit your narrative.
Yes I hit the jackpot, absolutely. I didnít expect that but it happened. And yes, itís not a LCC or other bottom feeder but a pretty big widebody airline that treats me and quite a few former EK colleagues (all of us DEC) very very well. Nobody of us would ever go back.
For a minute I though you were posting about the 600's @ EGHH, then I saw the bit about the same money as EK so I knew it couldn't be. But money is not everything, I do understand that.
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Old 15th Sep 2022, 17:51
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There is many alright aussies out there to be honest.
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Old 15th Sep 2022, 19:07
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Isn't there loads of people willing to give up the RHS to go LHS in EK or QR... is that what they are offering to get people to come now? Upgrade on arrival. Nothing would surprise me. Having said that, EK has had lots of great applicants, usually they invite half the subcontinent to the interview along with a few westerners and all the westerners get in.
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Old 18th Sep 2022, 10:15
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Originally Posted by Mike Koal
Isn't there loads of people willing to give up the RHS to go LHS in EK or QR... is that what they are offering to get people to come now? Upgrade on arrival. Nothing would surprise me. Having said that, EK has had lots of great applicants, usually they invite half the subcontinent to the interview along with a few westerners and all the westerners get in.
yea it was a typo. like i wrote on the message, I did the upgrade recently.. i cannot change the title. ive been trying to, after i submited the post but no luck
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Old 19th Sep 2022, 16:35
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if only management knew..

The only reason many pilots aren't joining right now is because a lot of them would like to keep commuting home with rosters like 3-1 or like US 17days on 13 off.. it's not for everybody to live in Dubai 365, not because it's bad but because part of your family stays in your home country.

This type of contract would cost 0 extra money out of their pocket but increase pilots joining.. many pilots I've spoken with flying for other airlines making less than in emirates rather stay there because they can commute home, not all is money, for many ike myself, familiy comes first.

I wish the best for all my colleagues out there flying in the ME.
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Old 19th Sep 2022, 18:07
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Originally Posted by vennnz
The only reason many pilots aren't joining right now is because a lot of them would like to keep commuting home with rosters like 3-1 or like US 17days on 13 off.. it's not for everybody to live in Dubai 365, not because it's bad but because part of your family stays in your home country.

This type of contract would cost 0 extra money out of their pocket but increase pilots joining.. many pilots I've spoken with flying for other airlines making less than in emirates rather stay there because they can commute home, not all is money, for many ike myself, familiy comes first.

I wish the best for all my colleagues out there flying in the ME.
Thank you kindly for a somewhat primitive account of the situation.

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Old 19th Sep 2022, 18:30
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Originally Posted by nimrodjoe
Thank you kindly for a somewhat primitive account of the situation.
it can be as complex or as simple as you wish depending on your point of view. I've seen the good and the bad and everyone has a different perception of the issues or benefits of the ME. i am referring to new joiners, like many of colleagues flying in Asia or even Africa for less bucks because the can commute home.

ME needs foreign pilots bur not all pilots want to be away from home for their remaining years of career.

Again, good luck with management and I hope all the worries and nonconformity with current situation improves i. The short term for all flying there.
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Old 19th Sep 2022, 19:12
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Originally Posted by Skyfl410
I worked for nine years in the middle east. I'm Currently back in the EU, working for a ''civilized'' airline...Based on my experience, I'm very disappointed in the T&C airlines offered in this '' Civilized'' world. I fly more than I used to in the ME with less than half the salary on a 5/3 roster, four sectors per day without food and only one 1litter of water offered by the airline. Without mentioning all the extra operations on the ground ecc ecc ecc ..
No worries...we are ''protected''... Let's tell our excellent, civilized manager/Unions to increase the salary and provide us with a snack on 10/13 hour duty and a 5/4 roster (which is still a killer) ....but the answer from our great managers was '' Like it or leave it''... this Sounds a bit like ME correct? So who's the slave now?

Let's report fatigue after a 13hours duty ...ahh, no, better not because the managers will want to ask why...
So better call in sick when you feel fatigued? Ahh, no, they don't pay when you are sick.
All these things are worst than the middle east and just a small part of this'' Protected and civilized'' world you like so much.

I passed a few interviews with other ''civilized'' airlines, but the story is always the same T&C suck. If you are not part of a major in the EU, you better do some flight hours and leave. Go to the middle EAST or Asia, where a pilot earns a good salary and still has a few practical benefits. It hurts to say, but it's the truth. Come back with full pockets and enjoy Europe as a tourist.

I'm glad to know you have 4/6 days off after a trip, and please tell us what reality you live in.
You went for DEC in some shitty airline I assume?
why donít you apply for RHS at a decent one?
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Old 19th Sep 2022, 19:22
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This is a breakthrough moment for sure. Commuter contracts, nobody has ever thought about this before.

cats out the bag now though, this is really going to take hold.

GAME CHANGER.


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Old 20th Sep 2022, 03:52
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Originally Posted by nimrodjoe
This is a breakthrough moment for sure. Commuter contracts, nobody has ever thought about this before.

cats out the bag now though, this is really going to take hold.

GAME CHANGER.
But remember when they introduced commuting contract for freighter 26/13 and how it turned out. At the end they flew 100% productivity on 80% no housing and school allowance (school allowance only if the kids go to school in Dubai) hotel in Dxb and flights on your own (class a and c)
medical only on duty and in Dubai

many wanted it only a few took it due to the side conditions
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Old 26th Sep 2022, 16:04
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Originally Posted by SaulGoodman
You went for DEC in some shitty airline I assume?
why donít you apply for RHS at a decent one?
Correct! 2022 already changed 2 airlines... All the same '' amazing shiity T&C''. for the moment, I prefer not to leave the Left seat. Ill just wait for the ME or Asia to open up. Not happy in EU.
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Old 26th Sep 2022, 18:12
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Originally Posted by Skyfl410
Correct! 2022 already changed 2 airlines... All the same '' amazing shiity T&C''. for the moment, I prefer not to leave the Left seat. Ill just wait for the ME or Asia to open up. Not happy in EU.
Pretty much all EU operators that hire DEC are crappy outfits, with a few exceptions obviously. The ME3 isnít any better though. You will earn a lot more, but you are going to need it as the cost of living is immense. If you are not too old I suggest looking into FO positions in good EU airlines. Iíve done just that and appreciate a much better QoL.
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Old 29th Sep 2022, 08:36
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Originally Posted by SaulGoodman
Pretty much all EU operators that hire DEC are crappy outfits, with a few exceptions obviously. The ME3 isnít any better though. You will earn a lot more, but you are going to need it as the cost of living is immense. If you are not too old I suggest looking into FO positions in good EU airlines. Iíve done just that and appreciate a much better QoL.
Once Housing and schools are paid by the airline, its money coming in. After it depends on you what life style you choose
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