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EK Salary Review Time Again

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EK Salary Review Time Again

Old 8th Aug 2022, 05:33
  #121 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by AIMINGHIGH123 View Post
It is looking very bad. Next 18 months going to be very tough. Honestly the financial charts my friend has sent me if rates going to 2-3% which they will do show a lot of pain in the housing sector.

Yes Dubai recession of 2008 was really bad. Again UK wasn’t a bed of roses. Don’t remember BA getting rid of anyone then but Virgin certainly did. I was working in the city at the time and saw hundreds of people made redundant, divorces, families lost houses plus some guys who just couldn’t cope.
you sound like a child
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Old 8th Aug 2022, 06:14
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Originally Posted by Rhodes13 View Post
The problem is you come on here spouting half truths as though you know it all and pontificating about a place and a job that you know nothing about.. and I was talking about Virgin Atlantic. For a person that claims to know so much about airlines you don't seem to know the basics about what happened in your own backyard.

You then advocate moving to an airline and a country where you literally have next to no rights or recourse should you be wronged, whilst simultaneously saying that the sky is falling. Given how EK literally treated people less than a year and a half ago I really don't see what you're trying to achieve? If it is so good why haven't you moved there?

By the way having done EK for nearly a decade it wasn't all the bed of roses either that you seem to like to portray from your fleeting holiday visits to the place.
Ok well let’s spin this on it’s head. Why are you not at Virgin or BA?

Virgin are known to get rid of people when ever it gets a little sketchy. It’s not half truths about Virgin. I know what my mate said to me. If we were face to face I would just show you his messages. Everything about BA is 100% true. The pay cut they have had and Euroflyer deal that quite a few who were made redundant have gone back to at BA is paying a lot less than mainline. I have seen the pay scale. Go and look on other threads here or better ask people there.

I have said before I don’t live in Dubai have been there half a dozen times and going again later this year. We have many friends there not at EK some been there over 20 years now and a family member of ours has just moved there. We have equal number of close friends in Dubai as we do in London.

The grass isn’t always greener that statement works everywhere.
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Old 8th Aug 2022, 06:27
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Obviously at EK you have no Union protection. I never said you didn’t. I was a BALPA member before and they were pretty useless for us.
Look at what happened at BA and Virgin. If you were on the wrong fleet at BA ie 747 it was tough luck. Completely different to what they were told that seniority was/is king at BA. Not anymore.

Yes EK is more of a risk but COVID should have taught you nowhere is solid.

I lost my job and had 0 help from BALPA. 0 help from UK government.
Still got to pay gas/electric/council tax etc even if you’re not earning.


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Old 8th Aug 2022, 07:03
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Originally Posted by AIMINGHIGH123 View Post
Obviously at EK you have no Union protection. I never said you didn’t. I was a BALPA member before and they were pretty useless for us.
Look at what happened at BA and Virgin. If you were on the wrong fleet at BA ie 747 it was tough luck. Completely different to what they were told that seniority was/is king at BA. Not anymore.

Yes EK is more of a risk but COVID should have taught you nowhere is solid.

I lost my job and had 0 help from BALPA. 0 help from UK government.
Still got to pay gas/electric/council tax etc even if you’re not earning.
No point argueing against the prune thicket. You will see that the moment they cannot refute your argument with facts they attack your qualifications to hold your opinion. That point passed several posts ago.

The shrinks propbably have a name for it but it boils down to the fact that if we both bang our fingers with a hammer, my pain will always be more than yours. No amount of "reason" is going to take my pain away.
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Old 8th Aug 2022, 07:40
  #125 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by AIMINGHIGH123 View Post
Obviously at EK you have no Union protection. I never said you didn’t. I was a BALPA member before and they were pretty useless for us.
Look at what happened at BA and Virgin. If you were on the wrong fleet at BA ie 747 it was tough luck. Completely different to what they were told that seniority was/is king at BA. Not anymore.

Yes EK is more of a risk but COVID should have taught you nowhere is solid.

I lost my job and had 0 help from BALPA. 0 help from UK government.
Still got to pay gas/electric/council tax etc even if you’re not earning.
sorry to say your are talking about very different things

Dubai is and will be affected by inflation as hard as any other country. The major difference is Dxb is protecting their own not expats. According to khajlees times the fuel price is soaring high, that’s why emirates get a bonus pack offering a certain amount of free fuel. Not for expats, off course.
Just because a family member moved their and might run a business or is employed in a western companies brach means, that you can say it’s same working in an Emirati company. And that’s exactly what ek is, an Emirati company. Beside that EK apparently is above all employment laws when it comes to expats and you won’t find any lawyer even touching this company.
So your regular trips to Dxb and your family reference on a successful live mean nothing when comes to a EK employment as this is a complete different story.

yes i compare Europe majors to ek but only in regard to human and business ethics, where EU airlines would do the same as EK does, but EU has at least some laws and regulation on the employment side to keep the worst off and unions at least pretend to keep things in order. No doubt we can see that LCC try to do everything to undermine those employment rights where ever they can and large companies try to follow those foot prints by all means. At least in the western world is Chance to things changed, while in the ME there is no way for improvement until market dictates so.

each single person applying to ME airlines is support their arrogance to keep things as they are and is strengthening their desire to do what ever they want and getting away with it.
EK will only change if nobody wants to be there under the current conditions. The constant lowering of requirements shows clearly their way of adjusting to availability of employees.
If people would show their discomfort on putting the life on change or even risk to live the fake dream, only than EK will change. But that’s a thing never will happen as the Stockholm Syndrom to big shine jet will always succeed

Last edited by flyTheBigFatLady; 8th Aug 2022 at 07:53.
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Old 8th Aug 2022, 09:29
  #126 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by AIMINGHIGH123 View Post
Ok well let’s spin this on it’s head. Why are you not at Virgin or BA?

Virgin are known to get rid of people when ever it gets a little sketchy. It’s not half truths about Virgin. I know what my mate said to me. If we were face to face I would just show you his messages. Everything about BA is 100% true. The pay cut they have had and Euroflyer deal that quite a few who were made redundant have gone back to at BA is paying a lot less than mainline. I have seen the pay scale. Go and look on other threads here or better ask people there.

I have said before I don’t live in Dubai have been there half a dozen times and going again later this year. We have many friends there not at EK some been there over 20 years now and a family member of ours has just moved there. We have equal number of close friends in Dubai as we do in London.

The grass isn’t always greener that statement works everywhere.
There you go again making assumptions. Did you not note the past tense of my statement that it wasn't a bed of roses?

I did leave EK and I am flying for one of the airlines you mentioned.

In regards to BALPA doing nothing for the Flybe guys and girls, I'm not really sure what you expected a union to do when the company you worked for went under? I notice you aren't trumpeting the fact that the same union you despise so much effectively ended the sham contractor model at RYR and has negotiated an earlier end to the pay cuts than the company wanted, or that the BACC agreed to take pay cuts to fund the salaries of those same 747 pilots who BA wanted to make redundant.


Last edited by Rhodes13; 8th Aug 2022 at 10:13.
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Old 8th Aug 2022, 09:44
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Kenny the clown,

Stop writing your nonsense.

Its clear that the young poster, Aiming high has had enough of paying his taxes, there is too many woke people around England for him, he knows a women is a women, and he wants to move to dubai where he might have to contend with a few vegan cabin crew but at least he can get a proper ploughMAN sandwich!

There's too much red tape for him in the UK, the unions are rubbish, his pays crap and his taxes high, the labour laws are pointless too. Whereas in Dubai he can get himself a cleaner and pay them 20pence an hour to clean his bog. He will never have a bog cleaner or somebody ironing his underwear and mowing his lawn in the UK. He gets a chauffeur to work and the driver will get his bag out of the trunk for him. These are the type of things that really impress these people. Makes them feel important.

He is suggesting that Virgin and BA handled the pandemic exactly the same way as Emirates which is completely wrong. There was criteria in place for identifying these job losses and the documentation is available. Whilst I agree that BA's wasn't great with fleet over seniority in part, Virgin's seemed to make a lot of sense and seemed relatively fair. Not sure how many redundancies virgin made, but BA somewhere in the region of 250. EK was 1500 plus, which is way more than all the UK airlines combined! Plus all these guys have had the opportunity to return to their jobs in the UK. Lots of people like White knight and Kenny the king were posting about easyJets pilot redundancies all the time. Easyjet didn't make one pilot redundant in the UK. Don't even think Ryanair made a UK pilot redundant. (not 100 percent sure of that but would be interested to know total number of Ryanair pilot redundancies)

Meanwhile in EK, the SVP of Training's son spent the whole pandemic on full pay and retaining his position, didn't even have unpaid leave. Funny.








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Old 8th Aug 2022, 10:13
  #128 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Rhodes13 View Post

In regards to BALPA doing nothing for the Flybe guys and girls, I'm nor really sure what you expected a union to do when the company you worked for went under? I notice you aren't trumpeting the fact that the same union you despise so much effectively ended the sham contractor model at RYR and has negotiated an earlier end to the pay cuts than the company wanted, or that the BACC agreed to take pay cuts to fund the salaries of those same 747 pilots who BA wanted to make redundant.
Yup BALPA saved every single UK pilot job at Easyjet. I just saw people piping up at the start spring 2020 with the articles stating Easyjet's making redundancies based on sickness , people were outraged then they went quiet when BALPA fought it and won! The same people also never mention it when EK did exactly that. Interesting isnt it.
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Old 8th Aug 2022, 10:20
  #129 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Mike Koal View Post
Lots of people like White knight and Kenny the king were posting about easyJets pilot redundancies all the time.
Oooh out comes the name calling, save it for the playground. Another post high on emotion and short on facts, desperately rummaging through my posting history like a beggar going through a trash can.
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Old 8th Aug 2022, 10:55
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Which bit wasn't facts?
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Old 8th Aug 2022, 11:10
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Originally Posted by Rhodes13 View Post
There you go again making assumptions. Did you not note the past tense of my statement that it wasn't a bed of roses?

I did leave EK and I am flying for one of the airlines you mentioned.

In regards to BALPA doing nothing for the Flybe guys and girls, I'm not really sure what you expected a union to do when the company you worked for went under? I notice you aren't trumpeting the fact that the same union you despise so much effectively ended the sham contractor model at RYR and has negotiated an earlier end to the pay cuts than the company wanted, or that the BACC agreed to take pay cuts to fund the salaries of those same 747 pilots who BA wanted to make redundant.
You are doing the same. My quote about BALPA wasn’t specific to losing a job but overall. As mentioned it they promised lots of help, SIMs to keep current etc etc. These things never happened. Some individual companies came out and helped off there own backs. Nothing to do with BALPA and that’s was really lovely of them. It’s well known at RYR that the UK side to the contract that has been agreed has been poorly handled. Some pay has been restored to pre COVID but if you read the contract it won’t be fully restored until 2023 IF a suitable profit is achieved. BALPA signed that off as a victory. Over 600 pilots at RYR are working there notices.

Last edited by AIMINGHIGH123; 8th Aug 2022 at 11:21.
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Old 8th Aug 2022, 11:20
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Originally Posted by AIMINGHIGH123 View Post
You are doing the same. My quote about BALPA wasn’t specific to losing a job but overall. They promised lots of help, SIMs to keep current etc etc. These things never happened. Some individual companies came out and helped off there own backs. Nothing to do with BALPA and that’s was really lovely of them. It’s well known at RYR that the UK side to the contract that has been agreed has been poorly handled. Some pay has been restored to pre COVID but if you read the contract it won’t be fully restored until 2023 IF a suitable profit is achieved. BALPA signed that off as a victory. Over 600 pilots at RYR are working there notices.
And you know how many are working their notices how?

The alternative from RYR was a continuation of the status quo so how is more money in a members pocket earlier a bad thing? Is it perfect no, but its a damn sight better than what could have been achieved without a union. And I notice you conveniently gloss over the fact of the significant victory they scored with the ending of the sham contractor model with many of those same people now due large payouts from the company and the aligning of UK pay scales....

At the end of the day a union can only work within the laws of the land in which they operate in. Your ire should be directed at successive governments of both persuasions that have continually watered down workers and unions rights to a point where the UK has some of the weakest workers rights and protections in the EU.

But go on keep telling everyone how crap the UK and unions are and what a utopia EK and the ME is.
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Old 8th Aug 2022, 11:58
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Originally Posted by Rhodes13 View Post
And you know how many are working their notices how?

The alternative from RYR was a continuation of the status quo so how is more money in a members pocket earlier a bad thing? Is it perfect no, but its a damn sight better than what could have been achieved without a union. And I notice you conveniently gloss over the fact of the significant victory they scored with the ending of the sham contractor model with many of those same people now due large payouts from the company and the aligning of UK pay scales....

At the end of the day a union can only work within the laws of the land in which they operate in. Your ire should be directed at successive governments of both persuasions that have continually watered down workers and unions rights to a point where the UK has some of the weakest workers rights and protections in the EU.

But go on keep telling everyone how crap the UK and unions are and what a utopia EK and the ME is.
How do I know? That’s classified. I’m not a spring chicken and have contacts.

Yes it is a dam site better than it was I agreed. I think they should have done more before COVID, personally. Maybe not to the extremes of the late Bob Crow but he knew how to negotiate. I have worked at places with unions that were a fraction of the cost as BALPA charges it’s members and they were good as well.

Now to calm you down a bit.
I never said EK and ME is utopia. I don’t think anywhere is.
For my situation weighing up loads of pros and loads of cons between BA,EK,J2,Virgin,RYR plus a few others there’s not much in it. I would take the hand given to me at the time.
Big points against BA is my age. BA you have to get in when you are early to late 20s latest. After that it becomes less and less attractive.
Virgin the lack of security. Of all the airlines mentioned I would put these at risk of going completely. They have never done amazingly financially. J2 is a good shout. Big negatives for me are it’s only SH. Personally wouldn’t want to be restricted to just that. BA is amazing for that. You have options. However leads back to point 1.
EK is not perfect and it would be a max 15 year plan. The money is still pretty good and ideally it would lead to my other plan outside of aviation. At the same time seeing my friends and family in Dubai. Dubai is a very marmite place. 100%. Before I went to it the first time it didn’t interest me at all. It’s the only place we have been to more than 5 times on holiday. Maybe it’s because we have friends there but sorry to disappoint you we just love it. Some people love camping in the middle of nowhere that’s not us. Can’t think of anything worse than camping or sitting in a log cabin in the Alps. Done that not interesting.

I love being a pilot but I would rather retire early. Having ran the numbers with my current situation EK is the best bet in that regards. Coupled with seeing friends and flying LH with turnarounds thrown in as well.
If EK offered part time options a better bidding system it would be way way better of course it would. Never gonna happen is it. That is what makes BA and the UK airlines attractive but yes not gonna lie I hate paying so much tax and seeing nothing for it.
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Old 8th Aug 2022, 17:28
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Devil

Originally Posted by Mike Koal View Post
Kenny the clown,

Stop writing your nonsense.

Its clear that the young poster, Aiming high has had enough of paying his taxes, there is too many woke people around England for him, he knows a women is a women, and he wants to move to dubai where he might have to contend with a few vegan cabin crew but at least he can get a proper ploughMAN sandwich!

There's too much red tape for him in the UK, the unions are rubbish, his pays crap and his taxes high, the labour laws are pointless too. Whereas in Dubai he can get himself a cleaner and pay them 20pence an hour to clean his bog. He will never have a bog cleaner or somebody ironing his underwear and mowing his lawn in the UK. He gets a chauffeur to work and the driver will get his bag out of the trunk for him. These are the type of things that really impress these people. Makes them feel important.

He is suggesting that Virgin and BA handled the pandemic exactly the same way as Emirates which is completely wrong. There was criteria in place for identifying these job losses and the documentation is available. Whilst I agree that BA's wasn't great with fleet over seniority in part, Virgin's seemed to make a lot of sense and seemed relatively fair. Not sure how many redundancies virgin made, but BA somewhere in the region of 250. EK was 1500 plus, which is way more than all the UK airlines combined! Plus all these guys have had the opportunity to return to their jobs in the UK. Lots of people like White knight and Kenny the king were posting about easyJets pilot redundancies all the time. Easyjet didn't make one pilot redundant in the UK. Don't even think Ryanair made a UK pilot redundant. (not 100 percent sure of that but would be interested to know total number of Ryanair pilot redundancies)

Meanwhile in EK, the SVP of Training's son spent the whole pandemic on full pay and retaining his position, didn't even have unpaid leave. Funny.
Maybe I should add my bit as well…..and paste the seniority list of sacked 380 guys, a list with some interesting gaps in it…The gaps were all friends/ ex colleagues of a certain VP Fleet and were magically saved during the culling….clowns…
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Old 8th Aug 2022, 17:47
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Originally Posted by AIMINGHIGH123 View Post
Some people love camping in the middle of nowhere that’s not us.
You probably need to open Google maps and see where Meydan South is then....
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Old 8th Aug 2022, 18:01
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They sent a clear message to everybody in the airline who isn’t a UAE national , or doesn’t have friends in the right places.

“nobody is remotely indispensable”
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Old 8th Aug 2022, 18:07
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Originally Posted by 5star View Post
Maybe I should add my bit as well…..and paste the seniority list of sacked 380 guys, a list with some interesting gaps in it…The gaps were all friends/ ex colleagues of a certain VP Fleet and were magically saved during the culling….clowns…
A friend of mine's daughter has developed an eating disorder because she's missing all her friends in Dubai as well as suffering from anxiety, completely broken the family. Horrible what they did.
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Old 9th Aug 2022, 10:56
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Originally Posted by 5star View Post
Maybe I should add my bit as well…..and paste the seniority list of sacked 380 guys, a list with some interesting gaps in it…The gaps were all friends/ ex colleagues of a certain VP Fleet and were magically saved during the culling….clowns…
would be interesting to get a actual seniority list, if somebody is brav enough to send me one, would appreciate it, thx
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Old 11th Aug 2022, 07:04
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Originally Posted by flyTheBigFatLady View Post
would be interesting to get a actual seniority list, if somebody is brav enough to send me one, would appreciateit, thx
anybody else heard that we are getting our two months back which was stolen in the pandemic ?
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Old 11th Aug 2022, 09:56
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Originally Posted by flyTheBigFatLady View Post
would be interesting to get a actual seniority list, if somebody is brav enough to send me one, would appreciate it, thx
Isn’t is just a staff number list? Somebody somewhere must have an actual seniority list…
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