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Emirates Application 2022

Middle East Many expats still flying in Knoteetingham. Regional issues can be discussed here.

Emirates Application 2022

Old 2nd Jun 2022, 13:18
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Originally Posted by Spongeboeing View Post
Some of you have to realize that there are people here working as contractors, without basic salary and with a very unstable income that goes from crazy well paid in summer to barely enough in winter, without any real capacity to make predictions on how the rest of the year will be and no security provided by a proper contract with a basic salary. There are people paying for their own hotels during out of base duties and simulator. They're paying for their uniform, their medical and even have money deducted for their simulator. And these weren't the conditions they signed up for when they first joined. They're also being thrown around across the different bases as they wait endlessly to be based where they want to be based. And then some of you complain about hard work at EK, jetlag and who knows what else. When you have a REAL reason to defend the opinion that XXX company has poor conditions when you can make a case. Otherwise it's just complaining as a sport. I've been in aviation since 2005. I did work for EK in the past. People always found reasons to complain.
Well said. Many other airlines out there have so much worse T+Cs.

My previous outfit we had an ex EK guy 15 years come and work for us for a while. He said it was so much harder than his time at EK.

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Old 3rd Jun 2022, 00:27
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Originally Posted by Spongeboeing View Post
Some of you have to realize that there are people here working as contractors, without basic salary and with a very unstable income that goes from crazy well paid in summer to barely enough in winter, without any real capacity to make predictions on how the rest of the year will be and no security provided by a proper contract with a basic salary. There are people paying for their own hotels during out of base duties and simulator. They're paying for their uniform, their medical and even have money deducted for their simulator. And these weren't the conditions they signed up for when they first joined. They're also being thrown around across the different bases as they wait endlessly to be based where they want to be based. And then some of you complain about hard work at EK, jetlag and who knows what else. When you have a REAL reason to claim that XXX company has poor conditions then you can make a case. Stop complaining about long flights. Stop complaining about turnarounds or about jetlag. You're working in a company that provides you with accommodation in a fun city, cleans your uniform, hands you cash on layovers, finances the education of your kids, gives you a leisure discount club card and many more benefits so that all you have to do is show up clean and sober at the entrance of your building to go to work.

Just. Stop. Complaining.
Just stop complaining about fatigue, and enjoy the Stockholm syndrome! At least you aren't being whipped or beaten, what are you complaining about!

This mentality has destroyed the pilot profession pretty much globally except the USA. Very sad.
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Old 3rd Jun 2022, 10:47
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Flight and duty time limitations apply in Emirates too. Being tired is not the same as being fatigued. Tiring is having 10 hours duties 5 days in a row, 4 turnarounds each day with 25 minutes stops (slots, ground staff shortages, weather, etc). And on top of that you're responsible of keeping your uniform clean, bringing food to work in Tupperware, getting yourself to work and hoping that you're working from your base instead of having to look and pay yourself for a hotel to spend the nights between duties when rostered out of base. This is how you work in any profitable European company keeping people employed.

If on a 9 day BKK SYD AKL you're spending your layovers partying like an animal, then of course you're gonna be tired and fatigued. If you're fatigued at Emirates, I don't know of any company that you wouldn't be fatigued in. If your idea of a jet career is to fly 50h per month then maybe long haul passenger operations are not for you.

Airline flying is a demanding job, both physically and mentally. People who come to read this thread aren't idiots. They've considered their options and have chosen to pursue a career flying long haul in a company like Emirates. They know they'd fly a lot and they also know about the benefits they'd enjoy.

Last edited by Spongeboeing; 3rd Jun 2022 at 12:51.
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Old 3rd Jun 2022, 17:12
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Originally Posted by Spongeboeing View Post
Flight and duty time limitations apply in Emirates too. Being tired is not the same as being fatigued. Tiring is having 10 hours duties 5 days in a row, 4 turnarounds each day with 25 minutes stops (slots, ground staff shortages, weather, etc). And on top of that you're responsible of keeping your uniform clean, bringing food to work in Tupperware, getting yourself to work and hoping that you're working from your base instead of having to look and pay yourself for a hotel to spend the nights between duties when rostered out of base. This is how you work in any profitable European company keeping people employed.

If on a 9 day BKK SYD AKL you're spending your layovers partying like an animal, then of course you're gonna be tired and fatigued. If you're fatigued at Emirates, I don't know of any company that you wouldn't be fatigued in. If your idea of a jet career is to fly 50h per month then maybe long haul passenger operations are not for you.

Airline flying is a demanding job, both physically and mentally. People who come to read this thread aren't idiots. They've considered their options and have chosen to pursue a career flying long haul in a company like Emirates. They know they'd fly a lot and they also know about the benefits they'd enjoy.
So you are happy having 8-10 days off flying half the globe and back. And constantly have a ULR followed by three India night turns? Because this is the norm once all 380 are airborne again.

so why is it than, that Lufthansa,KLM, Air France and Swiss pilots are in general happy with their duties, part time models and the possibility of commuting to their long haul duties. why are they not with EK if this company is so much better than the rest?
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Old 3rd Jun 2022, 18:09
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Originally Posted by flyTheBigFatLady View Post
So you are happy having 8-10 days off flying half the globe and back. And constantly have a ULR followed by three India night turns? Because this is the norm once all 380 are airborne again.

so why is it than, that Lufthansa,KLM, Air France and Swiss pilots are in general happy with their duties, part time models and the possibility of commuting to their long haul duties. why are they not with EK if this company is so much better than the rest?
How can you ask that?? That's like aviation career basics.

Because not all of us were lucky to get a job at a national carrier in our 20s. We're mercenaries. We go where the good work is hoping to make as much money as possible in a way that is compatible with our off-work life goals and enjoy while we're at it. You know well enough that most European pilots would change a high income career in Asia and the Middle East for a lower income career in a national carrier like Lufthansa, KLM or Iberia. Who here is flying for Lufthansa I ask? Most of us here are in Easyjet, Wizzair, Ryanair, DHL, Norwegian, etc. Tell a Wizzair pilot that xxx company is bad because they fly a lot. See what happens.
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Old 3rd Jun 2022, 22:18
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Originally Posted by flyTheBigFatLady View Post
So you are happy having 8-10 days off flying half the globe and back. And constantly have a ULR followed by three India night turns? Because this is the norm once all 380 are airborne again.

On 380 has never been like that and never will be, 12/14 days off flying 90/95 hrs was the minimum at peak.
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Old 4th Jun 2022, 00:01
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Originally Posted by Spongeboeing View Post
Some of you have to realize that there are people here working as contractors, without basic salary and with a very unstable income that goes from crazy well paid in summer to barely enough in winter, without any real capacity to make predictions on how the rest of the year will be and no security provided by a proper contract with a basic salary. There are people paying for their own hotels during out of base duties and simulator. They're paying for their uniform, their medical and even have money deducted for their simulator. And these weren't the conditions they signed up for when they first joined. They're also being thrown around across the different bases as they wait endlessly to be based where they want to be based. And then some of you complain about hard work at EK, jetlag and who knows what else. When you have a REAL reason to claim that XXX company has poor conditions then you can make a case. Stop complaining about long flights. Stop complaining about turnarounds or about jetlag. You're working in a company that provides you with accommodation in a fun city, cleans your uniform, hands you cash on layovers, finances the education of your kids, gives you a leisure discount club card and many more benefits so that all you have to do is show up clean and sober at the entrance of your building to go to work.

Just. Stop. Complaining.
You have absolutely no clue what you are talking about!!!
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Old 4th Jun 2022, 05:52
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Originally Posted by paule737 View Post
You have absolutely no clue what you are talking about!!!
You mean I have no clue about my actual current conditions or that I have no clue about the conditions I had when I was working for Emirates?
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Old 4th Jun 2022, 06:28
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Originally Posted by Spongeboeing View Post
How can you ask that?? That's like aviation career basics.

Because not all of us were lucky to get a job at a national carrier in our 20s. We're mercenaries. We go where the good work is hoping to make as much money as possible in a way that is compatible with our off-work life goals and enjoy while we're at it. You know well enough that most European pilots would change a high income career in Asia and the Middle East for a lower income career in a national carrier like Lufthansa, KLM or Iberia. Who here is flying for Lufthansa I ask? Most of us here are in Easyjet, Wizzair, Ryanair, DHL, Norwegian, etc. Tell a Wizzair pilot that xxx company is bad because they fly a lot. See what happens.
And yet there are people who stayed at EK alhough there were options to go to above mentioned airlines the past years. Many did apply but didnt get in for some reason. Then you realise you are trapped in your golden cage. Might as well convince yourself that life at LH, KLM is worse than at EK. Taxes, the people, the weather, flying big aircraft, here I am a somebody and I can behave inhumane to other people..you will find some reason...anything to fool yourself and keep some self esteem. But you know you have been bending over "me love you longtime " and that you are stuck in that position.

For people who cannot apply at the legacy carriers...EK is "best of the worst". Halas, what to do. Fill buckets. When done, leave and enjoy the hard earned. Hopefully still with your family. That should be the main goal. Keep focussing on that goal and all the BS will slide off you.
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Old 4th Jun 2022, 07:12
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Originally Posted by Spongeboeing View Post
How can you ask that?? That's like aviation career basics.

Because not all of us were lucky to get a job at a national carrier in our 20s. We're mercenaries. We go where the good work is hoping to make as much money as possible in a way that is compatible with our off-work life goals and enjoy while we're at it. You know well enough that most European pilots would change a high income career in Asia and the Middle East for a lower income career in a national carrier like Lufthansa, KLM or Iberia. Who here is flying for Lufthansa I ask? Most of us here are in Easyjet, Wizzair, Ryanair, DHL, Norwegian, etc. Tell a Wizzair pilot that xxx company is bad because they fly a lot. See what happens.
somewhere mentioned on 380 min 12/14 days off. Well I have seen enough month where that is absolutely not true. I had a good amount of month with 10 and less still doing 90hr.

The question is what did you need to give up going to EK:

from 2016 to 2019 and later into COVID restrictions pilots (especially commanders) did not get there full yearly vacation.
therefore they could often only meet the family once a year if at all

1) your family back home (parents siblings etc)
2) friends
3) think of the kids who left their friends back home because daddy wished for EK

usually the Pilar's of your sozial life

for what:

to sit in the dessert, within a super artificial environment, where people giving up their identity, to people who even not having one, for a company which does not respect the individual a single second.

life in DXB sounds interesting - but only for a tiny tiny bit compared to the life span being there. If you are for more than some beach clubs, cars, boats and being 10000 times in the desert having barbecue. Other than that DXB is not any thing more than boring.

There is not only one case where him the pilot convinced her(wife) and them(kids) to follow his dream and for the fun of making their live nice and cosy, pilled a good amount of depth with the bank just to keep them happy.
look around you in MS or MH nearly every second wife wants either to be a hairdresser or cosmetic artist, personal trainer, not because they can’t do anything else or they are not qualified. They just having a super hard time to find something what aligns with their education or qualification for a fair and nice salary.

Beside the ****** up cost of living (speaking of times pre Covid and pre Ukrainian War)

point is simple, EK was a cool job back when the individual was able to spread the vacation across the year, top it up with some of days. Back than it was possible to see it as just a job where you go to work and leave for short Periode to recharge the batteries from the dessert idiocy.since some local has deceived that your personal well being has to focused on spending your time in Dxb, people forgetting that your are caged.
I can still remember the voices everywhere when AAR disabled the possibility to add 5 days to a week of VAC. People learned to live with it, but nobody was happy. And till today the Stockholm Syndrom is setting in.

And today people think living in a compound far of the most in the middle of the dessert with a community pool (which is half year round not working) is the golden perfect live.

most people I know had been redundant are missing the long range flying within a network like the of EK - none of them is missing EK as a company and all are committed that their new lifestyle in regards to the environment is a thousand time better than in ******* DXB.
comparing the big airlines in Europe with all the LCC is by far more than difficult.

What has to be said, is that exactly those fellows who never made it into one of the big airlines are to be blamed that Ryan Air, Wizz & co have been successful with their employment models, as all those pilots started to sell their sole to get in and accepted every BS contract just to say „I am a pilot „.
I know quite a few people who turned down a list of offers from LCC and ACMIs just because of the contract terms versus money you earn.
If 80% of pilots would think the same way, including those at the ME3 than things would be fairly different even in the dessert.
but Pilots as a group are the easiest to trick and play as their will be always one being happy to be in the golden cage to realize years later what he had done to his personal and mental health giving up so much for the by far most disrespectful company in industry. And now you will say Asia isn’t any better - true but at least the paid triple and wasn’t any easy to get in.



Last edited by flyTheBigFatLady; 4th Jun 2022 at 07:44.
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Old 4th Jun 2022, 10:06
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So what you're basically saying is that YOU didn't enjoy life in Dubai and that for some people's personal circumstances working in the Middle East is not an option compatible with their family plans. Fair enough.

Dubai is a love it or hate it kind of city. There are people who do enjoy the life style in Dubai (Le me) and managed to establish relationships with people and a time off work that doesn't feel completely artificial. There are expats there who do things other than beach posing, desert bbq and yacht parties. I left Dubai late 2000s. I still maintain contact with the people who stayed. They're alright. Not all of them feel like they are in a golden cage. Some of them have families and businesses outside of aviation and property in Dubai. If you expect an ME3 adventure to be the same as working for a legacy based in your hometown, then maybe that's your problem right there.

But more importantly, when stating the facts about how it feels like to work in Dubai at Emirates, you need to consider where people are coming from. Nobody is leaving a job at Lufthansa for a job at Emirates. We're all trying to have a better career. Sometimes the motivation is money, sometimes it's a lifestyle or a professional satisfaction. You just don't know where people come from so you can't say it's good or bad. It's always relative.

You can't blame new pilots for the current conditions in the low cost carriers in Europe. I'd like to see you with 500h prop rejecting your first airline gig. The conditions have changed mid contract. People are leaving. This exodus will result in an improvement of conditions. It's just another cycle.
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Old 4th Jun 2022, 10:22
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Chaps, this thread is about the application procedure at EK. There are plenty of other threads where you can bitch and moan about the company. Let's get back on topic.
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Old 4th Jun 2022, 12:26
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Originally Posted by Spongeboeing View Post
Nobody is leaving a job at Lufthansa for a job at Emirates.
Flew with an FO on the 380 last month who did exactly that. So it does happen.
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Old 4th Jun 2022, 14:29
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I've known a few people who have come from "respectable" airlines in their home countries so it definitely does happen. The reasons vary but it is often because they believed what they were told during recruitment ("accelerated command" being a favourite) and always because it couldn't really be as bad as people said on PPRuNe, could it? I occasionally wonder how many are still happy with their decision after 5 years when they have finally paid the bond off.
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Old 4th Jun 2022, 14:53
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You’ll find most are happy at Emirates. If they weren’t, they would be long gone. Emirates will always have a steady stream of competent pilots. Emirates isn’t perfect but a very good option for a lot of people. Look around Europe, South Asia and South America and you’ll see how bad employers can be.
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Old 4th Jun 2022, 16:01
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Exactly. I remember one time I was clearing security at WAW and I saw an EK crew. I asked them "Hey, I left Dubai some 16 years ago, is it really that bad now". And they literally told me "Don't believe everything you read on PPRuNe.

I get that some of you may be frustrated because your expectations were unrealistic. You thought you'd fly in Emirates like an airline pilot in the 80s. Don't blame other people for that and let them be interested in this company. I know personally people who are there perfectly happy more than 10 years later. I also know people who are not happy and people who have left (some regret having left, like a captain in my current company).

The reality is that back in 2005, I remember people saying "Emirates is not what it used to be back in 95, those were the days". Today there's people idealizing the 2000s and hating the current times. Nothing has changed.
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Old 4th Jun 2022, 18:07
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Originally Posted by Spongeboeing View Post
Exactly. I remember one time I was clearing security at WAW and I saw an EK crew. I asked them "Hey, I left Dubai some 16 years ago, is it really that bad now". And they literally told me "Don't believe everything you read on PPRuNe.

I get that some of you may be frustrated because your expectations were unrealistic. You thought you'd fly in Emirates like an airline pilot in the 80s. Don't blame other people for that and let them be interested in this company. I know personally people who are there perfectly happy more than 10 years later. I also know people who are not happy and people who have left (some regret having left, like a captain in my current company).

The reality is that back in 2005, I remember people saying "Emirates is not what it used to be back in 95, those were the days". Today there's people idealizing the 2000s and hating the current times. Nothing has changed.
“Don’t believe everything you hear on PPRuNe”. That’s exactly what the ex EK captain I flew with said to me and I didn’t even mention PPRuNe.

“Happy wife Happy life.” That was his other advice for EK. That will make things run so much smoother. Everyone on board and smooth sailing ish.
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Old 4th Jun 2022, 19:08
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On the subject of advice for EK and Dubai, one more little gem I heard: "Make sure you leave Dubai with the same wife you arrived with." The various stresses of expat life (and working for Emirates) do add to the divorce rate.
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Old 5th Jun 2022, 08:07
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Originally Posted by BigGeordie View Post
On the subject of advice for EK and Dubai, one more little gem I heard: "Make sure you leave Dubai with the same wife you arrived with." The various stresses of expat life (and working for Emirates) do add to the divorce rate.
Having a wife is one of the key reasons never to go to the UAE/ME3. I can completely understand when you are in your twenties, single and no kids to go to EK. Having done various stints in the UAE I can fully comprehend that the first couple of years can be quite fun. Long term it is a shithole compared to basically everywhere in Europe.

I also don’t agree that most employers in Europe are worse than in the ME. Wizz, RYR and most Eastern European operators maybe.
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Old 5th Jun 2022, 08:38
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Originally Posted by Bloated Stomach View Post
You’ll find most are happy at Emirates. If they weren’t, they would be long gone. Emirates will always have a steady stream of competent pilots. Emirates isn’t perfect but a very good option for a lot of people. Look around Europe, South Asia and South America and you’ll see how bad employers can be.
That's 3rd floor talking. But it is a fact that a lot of people stay. Are all these people happy? It is all relative as said before. If you have only options to go to which will make you less happy, easy choice. But even then ex colleagues left for RYR, DHL and Wizz.

But to say that most are happy at EK? That is BS. Just look around you in MS or MH. You never see a EK pilot smiling when being picked up with the company car. It should be fun to again fly the biggest pax ac...ooh wait you did that last year for 1000+ hours (unfactured).
Check out FB, the Pilot Wifes page..seems everybody is not so happy.
But hey..,what is happiness?




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