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Lets go to EK! maybe...

Middle East Many expats still flying in Knoteetingham. Regional issues can be discussed here.

Lets go to EK! maybe...

Old 15th Dec 2021, 21:32
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Double the captains wage (2 months pay) ? I seem to remember level 13 captains pay @21000/month . Did not take furniture allowance but did get the maintenance allowance @3k /year ?
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Old 17th Dec 2021, 05:42
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Any news on the rumors

1),that AAR is moved to a different department
2) HR is getting trouble from HH because the fired to many


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Old 17th Dec 2021, 08:17
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Where did you hear the rumours?
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Old 17th Dec 2021, 12:50
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Originally Posted by Bringanotherengine
Where did you hear the rumours?
birds on the roof
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Old 17th Dec 2021, 22:48
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Originally Posted by flyTheBigFatLady
Any news on the rumors

1),that AAR is moved to a different department
2) HR is getting trouble from HH because the fired to many
Dunno, but the rumours about AAR being moved on have been around for at least a decade. I suspect just more of that - rumour.
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Old 18th Dec 2021, 11:16
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Originally Posted by flyTheBigFatLady
Any news on the rumors

1),that AAR is moved to a different department2) HR is getting trouble from HH because the fired to many
I can't imagine AAR acceppting a move to anything below STC's job title.
As for making too many people redundant, I can't imagine HH is very happy about the astronomical costs involved in making thousands of people redundant (visa cancellation, shipping stuff home, repartiation tickets and all the other stuff) only to hire them back again less than a year later with all the costs involved in that. Not to mention the damage to the reputation of the airline as an employer of choice in the middle east.
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Old 18th Dec 2021, 12:47
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Originally Posted by BigGeordie
I can't imagine AAR acceppting a move to anything below STC's job title.
As for making too many people redundant, I can't imagine HH is very happy about the astronomical costs involved in making thousands of people redundant (visa cancellation, shipping stuff home, repartiation tickets and all the other stuff) only to hire them back again less than a year later with all the costs involved in that. Not to mention the damage to the reputation of the airline as an employer of choice in the middle east.
It will be interesting to see what EK do.

As an industry COVID has really hit aviation hard as we know. The other fact is how many will return to aviation at all!!! From my company that went into administration I put a ball park figure on 20% at least never returning. 10% for sure have retrained and started other careers. 10% seem to be training or working in other industries that they could progress quickly in.
How many called it a day due to being close enough to retire and have enough to see them through until pension kicks in?
How many have had a reality check and enjoyed the time off and don’t want to go back?
How many have lost family members friends etc and now value that more than the money the sandpit can offer?

This situation has been going for so long and hit so many in different ways I think EK are going to be surprised about how many are saying thanks but no thanks.

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Old 18th Dec 2021, 15:44
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There is some evidence that EK have already found it harder to get people back than they thought it would have been. I can't imagine them putting people back on the same pay scale they left on and offering them accommodation allowance (six months in advance even) unless they absolutely had to.
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Old 18th Dec 2021, 18:35
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Originally Posted by BigGeordie
There is some evidence that EK have already found it harder to get people back than they thought it would have been. I can't imagine them putting people back on the same pay scale they left on and offering them accommodation allowance (six months in advance even) unless they absolutely had to.
one evidence for sure is the fact that TC named pilots a precious commodity and he said it in public - which is major change to days when he made all redundant, at that time we where only un- gainfully employed
not that it would change anything for the individual, but with pride he can say he was successful in at least one thing - destroying thousands of lives. Not to mention all the kids who lost their friends they grew up with, the Wives who suddenly needed to find a job after years living as housewife abroad, because in the best case the income of the ex pilot husband would not sufficiently support the Family. He can be very proud of what he created.

as a little reminder for HH and TC there are hundreds of pilots with experience on the the required Typ and route - give ‘em a call being ‘em back on their position, seniority and career profile without bull ****ting around a selection and testing and having a list of applicants etc.
just show how to stand behind employees. Yes covid left a hard hit, but you don’t need to keep playing arrogant games. Demonstrate what EK once stood for.

Last edited by flyTheBigFatLady; 18th Dec 2021 at 18:47.
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Old 19th Dec 2021, 04:00
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Originally Posted by flyTheBigFatLady
one evidence for sure is the fact that TC named pilots a precious commodity and he said it in public - which is major change to days when he made all redundant, at that time we where only un- gainfully employed
not that it would change anything for the individual, but with pride he can say he was successful in at least one thing - destroying thousands of lives. Not to mention all the kids who lost their friends they grew up with, the Wives who suddenly needed to find a job after years living as housewife abroad, because in the best case the income of the ex pilot husband would not sufficiently support the Family. He can be very proud of what he created.

as a little reminder for HH and TC there are hundreds of pilots with experience on the the required Typ and route - give ‘em a call being ‘em back on their position, seniority and career profile without bull ****ting around a selection and testing and having a list of applicants etc.
just show how to stand behind employees. Yes covid left a hard hit, but you don’t need to keep playing arrogant games. Demonstrate what EK once stood for.
Good post. The initial media attention on C-19 seemed to concentrate on how much it had hit various economies and industries. But there is now a steadily dawning realisation that the days of employees chasing around the world, giving up all of their previously held employment rights for reasonably well paid but very insecure employment with an unscrupulous employer are now consigned to history.

Emirates answer to most issues in the past has been to throw money at the problem. I wonder if they have a plan B? They may well need one.
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Old 19th Dec 2021, 05:49
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Originally Posted by flyTheBigFatLady
one evidence for sure is the fact that TC named pilots a precious commodity and he said it in public - which is major change to days when he made all redundant, at that time we where only un- gainfully employed
not that it would change anything for the individual, but with pride he can say he was successful in at least one thing - destroying thousands of lives. Not to mention all the kids who lost their friends they grew up with, the Wives who suddenly needed to find a job after years living as housewife abroad, because in the best case the income of the ex pilot husband would not sufficiently support the Family. He can be very proud of what he created.

as a little reminder for HH and TC there are hundreds of pilots with experience on the the required Typ and route - give ‘em a call being ‘em back on their position, seniority and career profile without bull ****ting around a selection and testing and having a list of applicants etc.
just show how to stand behind employees. Yes covid left a hard hit, but you don’t need to keep playing arrogant games. Demonstrate what EK once stood for.
Wishful thinking.
I am surprised to see former colleagues with long service history at EK believe in fairy tales and being so naive.
STC and HH do not give an extra f**k, they never did, they never will.

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Old 19th Dec 2021, 05:57
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At the moment there is no shortage . Take it or leave it is in the companies favour. I know several redundant late 50s early 60s guys going back because they could not secure work at their age and needing a job .
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Old 19th Dec 2021, 08:30
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As an industry COVID has really hit aviation hard as we know. The other fact is how many will return to aviation at all!!! From my company that went into administration I put a ball park figure on 20% at least never returning. 10% for sure have retrained and started other careers. 10% seem to be training or working in other industries that they could progress quickly in.
How many called it a day due to being close enough to retire and have enough to see them through until pension kicks in?
How many have had a reality check and enjoyed the time off and don’t want to go back?
How many have lost family members friends etc and now value that more than the money the sandpit can offer?

This situation has been going for so long and hit so many in different ways I think EK are going to be surprised about how many are saying thanks but no thanks.
I would concur with most of that, but not that EK will be surprised. They already know what awaits them.

From what I observed as an innocent observer, it seems a while back EK called most of the fired pilots back. Soon after that, they already started to take expressions of interest from non-former-employees.

What must have happened:

In the maybe 3 weeks after the recall of the fired ex-employees, they must have realised that maybe 70% reacted to the invitation (my guess), while 30% did not show any interest for many reasons: arranged themselves into an earlier retirement, found an intermediary job home, left aviation altogether, went home and wife is going to work, etc. There are multitude of reasons why someone won't move again to Dubai, after he had been fired in a rather brutal way. Also most US pilots are returning home, the job market is so strong with thousands of captains being early retired.

So suddenly as EK you realise your restart pipeline over the next months is not that full as you expected. You still have a bit of time as a company, since you are currently busy on re-onboarding your former employees who are willing to return, but you also have a very clear picture, when this former-employees-pipeline will be dried up.

So yes, I also believe the expat airlines will soon have to restart offering their former packages.

In 12 months the world will live with Covid, it will be endemic everywhere in the world, most people will minimise their risk with the vaccine, others prefer to risk to end up on ventilators, but aviation will be back to more or less normal levels. The US has shown how quickly customers return once the society treats covid as part of life.

At the same time thousands of well qualified pilots will have taken early retirement (all the majors have had such programs), and many more young pilots will have left for another career.
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Old 19th Dec 2021, 12:09
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Originally Posted by 1201alarm

From what I observed as an innocent observer, it seems a while back EK called most of the fired pilots back. Soon after that, they already started to take expressions of interest from non-former-employees.
they did Not call them back
they asking for the intressted of it
so far they called a handful back, the majority still waiting for a call
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Old 19th Dec 2021, 14:10
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And not 1 recall for 777 or even a request for expression of interest.
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Old 19th Dec 2021, 21:06
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Out of curiosity how does the command process work at EK? If you were close to command pre Covid and got made redundant, only to come back at the bottom of a seniority based command system and be back of the line that wouldn't be very attractive to many I wouldn't think. Or is it just if you meet whatever the requirements are at the time you apply and join the que at that point?

Also what is the story with joining as 'Accelerated Command' rather than as an FO? Do you join a separate process or are you just lumped in the que with all of the other FOs?
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Old 20th Dec 2021, 11:32
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Originally Posted by Whitemonk Returns
Out of curiosity how does the command process work at EK? If you were close to command pre Covid and got made redundant, only to come back at the bottom of a seniority based command system and be back of the line that wouldn't be very attractive to many I wouldn't think. Or is it just if you meet whatever the requirements are at the time you apply and join the que at that point?

Also what is the story with joining as 'Accelerated Command' rather than as an FO? Do you join a separate process or are you just lumped in the que with all of the other FOs?
as per the update as an fo just before upgrade pre covid you doomed - back to square one overtaken by anyone from the list who survived the desater
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Old 31st Dec 2021, 18:54
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Re-firing

So, it seems Covid is not going away. We are learning to tame it.
Might be enough, or not, to fill 600 seaters connecting the world.
Has anyone given though to what they would do if things worsen again?
RE-FIRING?
Now wouldn't that be Emiratestastic?
Happy new year to all!!
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Old 1st Jan 2022, 16:59
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Originally Posted by desert witch
So, it seems Covid is not going away. We are learning to tame it.
Might be enough, or not, to fill 600 seaters connecting the world.
Has anyone given though to what they would do if things worsen again?
RE-FIRING?
Now wouldn't that be Emiratestastic?
Happy new year to all!!
Omicron is definitely ripping through the population everywhere.
​​​​​Thankfully it does seem to be far milder this time, I don't think we will see the same restrictions again.
You would hope airlines would of learnt their lessons about firing people last time. But anything is possible
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Old 3rd Jan 2022, 12:34
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Originally Posted by flyTheBigFatLady
as per the update as an fo just before upgrade pre covid you doomed - back to square one overtaken by anyone from the list who survived the desater
to add one
so now FO are not even getting upgrade according to the seniority list - being chosen is now depending on sick days and the free will of fleet - in other words having a sick or simple not liked by one individual, no matter what your grades are - u wait until merci strikes
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