Lets go to EK! maybe...
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White Knight
You verses the many many I know of who had had long term sickness/operations etc and good records else wise. Coincidence…….who knows but with the company refusing to give reasons for redundancy it is very suspicious.
You verses the many many I know of who had had long term sickness/operations etc and good records else wise. Coincidence…….who knows but with the company refusing to give reasons for redundancy it is very suspicious.
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sickness is not sickness - I think it’s very depending on big the bill was for EK- just being sick does not mean it’s very expensive, a surgery on the other hand leaves a large bill for EK
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The cost of a surgical procedure is minor if the pilot is off work for months . The matrix used was far more involved than just sickness/ long term illness. I have said this before STC is data driven , there is so much data on every pilot . Just ask a trainer about "cruise program" , shocking what they have on you . Multiple layers of restricted access including ELOM. Rest assured all was used , especially on the first 600 fired. As far as bringing any of the 600 back , lift one little parameter ,STC/AAR can see who they get and decide .
One thing for certain , EK has shown their true colours , it's just business and you are only a number . Keep your head down !
One thing for certain , EK has shown their true colours , it's just business and you are only a number . Keep your head down !
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True on data driven, but I tend to disagree on the costs of hospitalization as I for my self produced in 24 hours 20000 plus Aed for something like nothing plus the decision making until I got there(finally) and if done better not even nessesary the extra costs on a pilot with surgery are astronomical.
not to say it was somehow understandable that ek made medical benefits harder and harder to receive, because of hospitals where simply milking the cow ( without defending EK, but understandable, as med costs are a pay on event and not insurance based)
At the end sick pilots provided extra costs which for sure had a monster influence on a cost based HR matrix software
not to say it was somehow understandable that ek made medical benefits harder and harder to receive, because of hospitals where simply milking the cow ( without defending EK, but understandable, as med costs are a pay on event and not insurance based)
At the end sick pilots provided extra costs which for sure had a monster influence on a cost based HR matrix software
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Captains wage x #months off work = huge added cost to EK ops . Dubai hospital cost were astronomical and service questionable. I do believe there was limitations on elective procedures . I know a handful guys that were off a number of times for months on end but left before the cull, probably would have been chopped. Myself including . I sure EK got kickbacks from hospitals. Or at least the "family" did. Pressure slowly increased on EK doctors to justify spending which in turn helped junior pilots as they were denied elective procedures ( more productive) . Older seniors guys would not fare well in the matrix .
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Picky on small things
So as I have read all the comments, it looks like most are sour and picky on small things. I want to ask of you can buy alcohol or pork products from a shop in the street? Can you go to a park or a mall with shorts that is above the knee? Or will security stop you and show you away? Does EK pilots get full basic and flight pay salary ? Does FO's get a villa as advertised or a small 2 maybe 3 bedroom apartment in a dark depressing compound? There are a lot of benefits in dubai and is way more western than the rest of ME. A lot of things to do. To be honest EK is a business and if they can just get a more diverse fleet it would've been easier. 787's are on the way and things will get better regarding flight hours etc. Just my thoughts and if the questions can be answered that would be nice.
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some off what you is true, unfortunately flight hours won’t go done. EK flew the 380 pre covid with a crew factor of 9 finding the left seat constantly in the 100-110 hr a month perfectly Managed with your leave (if twice a year) to manage your yearly block time.
this is and will stay the standard. eventually they will increase the over time limit back into the 90 to manage.
if you will see all the 42 days of leave granted will only show the future. So far before covid it was rare you see all your leave days and in some case leave at all.
this is and will stay the standard. eventually they will increase the over time limit back into the 90 to manage.
if you will see all the 42 days of leave granted will only show the future. So far before covid it was rare you see all your leave days and in some case leave at all.
short flights long nights
If you think flight hours will go down, you are deluded.
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For years they said every 6 months in the wash ups, that the hours would go down and that the staffing would increase. It never did……..
They realised things were wrong a few years back and held a few captains meetings, to see what the feeling on the street was, and that they understood how bad things were and that they would improve. These meetings were going to be an annual occurrence. Things didn’t get better and when they realised the depth of feeling they stopped the meetings….’nothing to see here move on….’
They realised things were wrong a few years back and held a few captains meetings, to see what the feeling on the street was, and that they understood how bad things were and that they would improve. These meetings were going to be an annual occurrence. Things didn’t get better and when they realised the depth of feeling they stopped the meetings….’nothing to see here move on….’
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Yes / you can buy alcohol. Yes / you can buy pork meat. It is just 2-3 times more expensive than in normal world.
But do not expect improvement in terms of hours flown, off days or leave granted.
But for sure you can expect that every 1 or 2 year you will experience major reduction in your lifestyle/benefits. It can be anything / they will reduce medical benefits. Or they will force you to live in company accommodation. Or they will announce that accommodation allowance is not an option anymore (unless you support local real estate market and buy sth in dxb). Or like few weeks ago they will announce new procedure regarding visitors in company accommodation. Every reduction is minor by itself. Small things like you said. But when you add them all together, you will understand source of frustration, continuous complaints, etc.
EK doesn't care if you are happy. As you said it is just a business and once in dxb you are only one of resources required to run this business.
What EK cares about is communication & PR. Communication outside showing that we are happy family, we are real gold, talents like they say....
And communication inside, between us. If something negative appears in this communication, something that destroys this ideal picture they love to quickly close such communication channels. They did it few years ago with pprune (banned in uae without vpn), they did it with our previous FB group at the beginning of pandemic, etc.
Again, small things when looking at them separately, but when added up, it can be too much for some of us. Think twice Buddy!!
But do not expect improvement in terms of hours flown, off days or leave granted.
But for sure you can expect that every 1 or 2 year you will experience major reduction in your lifestyle/benefits. It can be anything / they will reduce medical benefits. Or they will force you to live in company accommodation. Or they will announce that accommodation allowance is not an option anymore (unless you support local real estate market and buy sth in dxb). Or like few weeks ago they will announce new procedure regarding visitors in company accommodation. Every reduction is minor by itself. Small things like you said. But when you add them all together, you will understand source of frustration, continuous complaints, etc.
EK doesn't care if you are happy. As you said it is just a business and once in dxb you are only one of resources required to run this business.
What EK cares about is communication & PR. Communication outside showing that we are happy family, we are real gold, talents like they say....
And communication inside, between us. If something negative appears in this communication, something that destroys this ideal picture they love to quickly close such communication channels. They did it few years ago with pprune (banned in uae without vpn), they did it with our previous FB group at the beginning of pandemic, etc.
Again, small things when looking at them separately, but when added up, it can be too much for some of us. Think twice Buddy!!
Last edited by A320_jockey; 20th Nov 2021 at 20:41.
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Medical benefits - have a look on your latest medical card, at the bottom it says “referral only”, with that it might happen that you arrive with an emergency at the hospital and at the counter they will ask you to get a referral. And they let u sit until u reach somebody from medical benefits to send an approval and yes it will take a while because how to describe your problem as being not a doctor to a no doctor on the other end - other option is to pay yourself and hope for reimbursement ( good luck here) because somebody in an office without the pain may decides you don’t need that received treatment and then there will be no reimbursement - but yes EK is a wonderful family caring about each other
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777 fleet management say we are over crewed, yet 2021 has seen me accrue more productivity pay bar one year in my time here. I suspect those remaining at EK are going to be working harder than we were before the pandemic. While the bidding system is bringing some desired flights for some colleagues, the days of bidding for five days off and getting them seems to be over for now at least.
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My take is the whole industry is broken particularly outside the US majors. Brexit has screwed over anyone with a UK licence unless you have converted to EASA, limited options exist.
Was at a UK airline for 5 years before the pandemic. No night flying, pay not very good but colleagues were a joy to fly with. Company I thought was ok but didn’t know any different until I researched others!
Had an ex EK Captain at our outfit for a while. He had done 15 years at EK and loved it he only left as he was taking early retirement. He goes back to Dubai every couple of months, pre COVID. His take was if your family is happy it makes things run a lot smoother. At our outfit he was very vocal and said honestly it was harder flying than EK. We had tight turn around 4-6 sectors. Usually did 4-6 days on 2-3 off and repeat. On your days on you would often have to change aircraft due to technical issue etc. Something he said he had only ever done once at EK. Roster changes very common at our airline. They couldn’t change your days off but you could go from a lovely rare 2 sector to doing 6 sectors with an extended duty time. His answer to would he go to EK again was possibly, but the work was getting harder compared to when he joined. His take home salary eclipsed anything you could get UK/EU land after 15 years at any airline. I couldn’t believe it. Equivalent to 5 months work for me at the time.
Yes EK do treat you exactly as a number and you can be out tomorrow. However even at BA guys got screwed. My mate was at BA on 777, before joining he got offered 787 but the course was delayed so they advised him to take 777 to get in as seniority is “key”.
Well pandemic hits and he should have been safe but BA changed the rules. Anyone who was on 787 or A350 didn’t get made redundant, even if they joined Feb 2020. A lot of guys/gals been cheated by that, 2 years in a company when “seniority” usually means everything. As I said those days seem to be fading fast!
Personally I have been to Dubai quite a few times, got a fair few friends and family there and they love it. Some 20 years plus. I also know half a dozen people who left after a year as they hated it. Being from London when we go out there we spend around the same as we would here. With our kids, meals at nice hotels were around the same price as eating in a local pub in London. Beer is pricey in UAE though. Weirdly cocktails were quite good value. I was paying 45 AED and most places were doing 2 for 1 or included in meal price, this was last month. Amenities a bit more than we pay but fuel is so much cheaper. Last month when I was there filled the tank of the hire car at it was 100 AED from empty. UK that would be 400 AED. Which in the UK is a fortnight cost for me. When I was working I would spend £400-£500 a month on fuel. That’s around 2400 AED.
Nursery fees for our 2 little ones are ridiculous. 5 days a week would come in at 12k AED with government help. Without that it would be 16k AED a month. Obviously once they get to 5 years old we have state schools. Private is around the same cost as we paying now.
I think moving to UAE depends on where you are coming from and personal circumstances. My Brazil friend loves the safety side of Dubai. Unlikely to be held up at gun point which happened a few times to him.
For me I am looking at EK or FD but both would be a 10 year plan. We could rent our property in UK and clear our mortgage in that time. The ex EK captain I flew with invested all his money into UK property and is very very comfortable.
As with every career now you will never get rich by just working, have to invest your money wisely to be able to get out of the rat race.
My personal negatives from EK research is you can be dropped tomorrow.
Annual leave not being honoured. Although my previous airline was the same they just ended up paying us off.
Living in a compound. For us as a family the location is a bit crap. We would rather be more central or option to live near our friends. Difficult unless we pull money out of our property and buy in Dubai. Not ideal.
Property prices seem more volatile compared to London. Cheaper though.
Ultimately I got into this game slightly later than some. If I was under 30 I would just try and get with a legacy in my country. BA here. Pushing 40 it’s almost not worth it. It takes at least 10 years to be senior enough to be able to bid for the good trips.
Difficult decisions and the market is still horrendous. It’s picking up but slim pickings.
Was at a UK airline for 5 years before the pandemic. No night flying, pay not very good but colleagues were a joy to fly with. Company I thought was ok but didn’t know any different until I researched others!
Had an ex EK Captain at our outfit for a while. He had done 15 years at EK and loved it he only left as he was taking early retirement. He goes back to Dubai every couple of months, pre COVID. His take was if your family is happy it makes things run a lot smoother. At our outfit he was very vocal and said honestly it was harder flying than EK. We had tight turn around 4-6 sectors. Usually did 4-6 days on 2-3 off and repeat. On your days on you would often have to change aircraft due to technical issue etc. Something he said he had only ever done once at EK. Roster changes very common at our airline. They couldn’t change your days off but you could go from a lovely rare 2 sector to doing 6 sectors with an extended duty time. His answer to would he go to EK again was possibly, but the work was getting harder compared to when he joined. His take home salary eclipsed anything you could get UK/EU land after 15 years at any airline. I couldn’t believe it. Equivalent to 5 months work for me at the time.
Yes EK do treat you exactly as a number and you can be out tomorrow. However even at BA guys got screwed. My mate was at BA on 777, before joining he got offered 787 but the course was delayed so they advised him to take 777 to get in as seniority is “key”.
Well pandemic hits and he should have been safe but BA changed the rules. Anyone who was on 787 or A350 didn’t get made redundant, even if they joined Feb 2020. A lot of guys/gals been cheated by that, 2 years in a company when “seniority” usually means everything. As I said those days seem to be fading fast!
Personally I have been to Dubai quite a few times, got a fair few friends and family there and they love it. Some 20 years plus. I also know half a dozen people who left after a year as they hated it. Being from London when we go out there we spend around the same as we would here. With our kids, meals at nice hotels were around the same price as eating in a local pub in London. Beer is pricey in UAE though. Weirdly cocktails were quite good value. I was paying 45 AED and most places were doing 2 for 1 or included in meal price, this was last month. Amenities a bit more than we pay but fuel is so much cheaper. Last month when I was there filled the tank of the hire car at it was 100 AED from empty. UK that would be 400 AED. Which in the UK is a fortnight cost for me. When I was working I would spend £400-£500 a month on fuel. That’s around 2400 AED.
Nursery fees for our 2 little ones are ridiculous. 5 days a week would come in at 12k AED with government help. Without that it would be 16k AED a month. Obviously once they get to 5 years old we have state schools. Private is around the same cost as we paying now.
I think moving to UAE depends on where you are coming from and personal circumstances. My Brazil friend loves the safety side of Dubai. Unlikely to be held up at gun point which happened a few times to him.
For me I am looking at EK or FD but both would be a 10 year plan. We could rent our property in UK and clear our mortgage in that time. The ex EK captain I flew with invested all his money into UK property and is very very comfortable.
As with every career now you will never get rich by just working, have to invest your money wisely to be able to get out of the rat race.
My personal negatives from EK research is you can be dropped tomorrow.
Annual leave not being honoured. Although my previous airline was the same they just ended up paying us off.
Living in a compound. For us as a family the location is a bit crap. We would rather be more central or option to live near our friends. Difficult unless we pull money out of our property and buy in Dubai. Not ideal.
Property prices seem more volatile compared to London. Cheaper though.
Ultimately I got into this game slightly later than some. If I was under 30 I would just try and get with a legacy in my country. BA here. Pushing 40 it’s almost not worth it. It takes at least 10 years to be senior enough to be able to bid for the good trips.
Difficult decisions and the market is still horrendous. It’s picking up but slim pickings.
Last edited by AIMINGHIGH123; 21st Nov 2021 at 08:40.
Only half a speed-brake
AIMINGHIGH123, as you say - happy wife, happy life.
Unless she's able to speak the local language better yet share cultural roots, that's another key factor to consider. Her well-being (applies to ex-pat locations worldwide).
Unless she's able to speak the local language better yet share cultural roots, that's another key factor to consider. Her well-being (applies to ex-pat locations worldwide).
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nimrodjoe
Far from it! I merely try to add some reality to the discussion as there are are lot of emotive clouds of waffle floating around!
Unfortunately some of my former colleagues didn’t help themselves with issues such as often ‘pressing 2’ or taking a few tonnes extra each sector ‘just in case’.
Far from it! I merely try to add some reality to the discussion as there are are lot of emotive clouds of waffle floating around!
Unfortunately some of my former colleagues didn’t help themselves with issues such as often ‘pressing 2’ or taking a few tonnes extra each sector ‘just in case’.