Joining Qatar Airways after Covid
Join Date: Sep 2005
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TLG,
Extensive write up. Thanks for that….Should be a sticky…
It seems like the same show as @ ‘Banana’, just a bit more extreme and even less ‘civilised’
So happy I am out of the circus called the ME…
Great flying (the one aspect I miss the most) but as you described it very well, an a-hole behind every corner ready to make your life miserable…No thanks.
Good luck to you!
Extensive write up. Thanks for that….Should be a sticky…
It seems like the same show as @ ‘Banana’, just a bit more extreme and even less ‘civilised’
So happy I am out of the circus called the ME…
Great flying (the one aspect I miss the most) but as you described it very well, an a-hole behind every corner ready to make your life miserable…No thanks.
Good luck to you!
Join Date: Dec 2015
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Thanks for reminding me why I left this place in 2019. Sounds like they "managed" to make it even worse and that is truly an accomplishment. I've come to the sad realization that life in QR is not only bad because of cost cutting and economically exploitative behaviour but due to a systematic will to make peoples lives miserable.
I still don't know wether it originates with the subcontinental beings which have been put in place to micro manage and bean count or if the owners actively promote all the known methods. In the end it doesn't really matter - the result is the same. Surely A.B hasn't been hired to expose to the whole world what an inhumane ****show of an operation they are able to run with tons of cash at their disposal.
I still don't know wether it originates with the subcontinental beings which have been put in place to micro manage and bean count or if the owners actively promote all the known methods. In the end it doesn't really matter - the result is the same. Surely A.B hasn't been hired to expose to the whole world what an inhumane ****show of an operation they are able to run with tons of cash at their disposal.
Last edited by level_change; 18th Aug 2021 at 23:44.
Join Date: Aug 2021
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True, sadly true
All of these is sadly true. And more to be said, like pilots fired on long term sickness, left stranded with no protection, Or charging the solidarity program to the end of service benefit of who got fired.. Those 25% that you would be deducted to avoid being fired, or redundant in local lingo.
It’s telling that in a small country like Qatar there’s a contest to find the best 10 companies to work for, and the goat with thousands of employees don’t show on those 10.
If you wonder why the new profiles of people writing here, yes, they try to come after us. They massed fired a group of Italian pilots for a chat in WhatsApp. With meetings in the office to show the phones included.
If you wonder why we don’t get the
out, oh, most of us will, wait for the market.
Nothing that they can do(and in desperation they will, doing what they know which is throwing money) will change this stain of this deeply mean place. Like someone said, it takes a long time to get a good reputation and a second to ruin that. And these guys have been trying really hard for years.
This is a deeply flawed place.
Thanks to the author, spot on.
It’s telling that in a small country like Qatar there’s a contest to find the best 10 companies to work for, and the goat with thousands of employees don’t show on those 10.
If you wonder why the new profiles of people writing here, yes, they try to come after us. They massed fired a group of Italian pilots for a chat in WhatsApp. With meetings in the office to show the phones included.
If you wonder why we don’t get the
out, oh, most of us will, wait for the market.Nothing that they can do(and in desperation they will, doing what they know which is throwing money) will change this stain of this deeply mean place. Like someone said, it takes a long time to get a good reputation and a second to ruin that. And these guys have been trying really hard for years.
This is a deeply flawed place.
Thanks to the author, spot on.
Last edited by Goulash; 19th Aug 2021 at 05:14. Reason: Misspelled
Join Date: Aug 2021
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Bravo... bravo The Lost Goat!
Totally true post.. This is by far the most accurate picture currently at the 5-star Qatar Airways.. Most of the pilots at QR are trying to keep a brave face and hoping this worst phase of their career (while having a job at hand) will pass, however it is not going to and is getting worse by the day.. All pilots and cabin crew are disgruntled, unmotivated and complaining, ALL THE TIME.. There is just so much negativity in and around any QR employee that it might turn a proton into an electron...
The extreme fear culture, lack of any feedback tool, lack of transparency, extreme autocracy, lack of empathy or compassion for employees by the management makes the life of any employee miserable..
I am glad there is a thread to bring out the true image of QR, as apparently it is a extreme image conscious company..
I would encourage more people to speak up here, both good and the bad about working for QR.
It’s time to face the truth..
Totally true post.. This is by far the most accurate picture currently at the 5-star Qatar Airways.. Most of the pilots at QR are trying to keep a brave face and hoping this worst phase of their career (while having a job at hand) will pass, however it is not going to and is getting worse by the day.. All pilots and cabin crew are disgruntled, unmotivated and complaining, ALL THE TIME.. There is just so much negativity in and around any QR employee that it might turn a proton into an electron...
The extreme fear culture, lack of any feedback tool, lack of transparency, extreme autocracy, lack of empathy or compassion for employees by the management makes the life of any employee miserable..
I am glad there is a thread to bring out the true image of QR, as apparently it is a extreme image conscious company..
I would encourage more people to speak up here, both good and the bad about working for QR.
It’s time to face the truth..
Join Date: Sep 2006
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What a dream!
Nearly 8yrs up there, and now almost 3 years back home. Wow this brought back a flood of memories! People may read this and think it’s a bit of an over exaggerated write up, perhaps by a disgruntled employee? Maybe it is but word for word it is accurate to a tee! Well written. I have many of my own ridiculous stories but since leaving in 2018 I hear things have only gotten worse and worse.
Join Date: Jan 2014
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I feel your pain "Lost Goat"!
I spent 1096 days flying the 777 for QR. (before you get your calculator out, this is 3 years plus 1 day). I had promised them 3 years, and I left only when I had a guarantee of getting my "final settlement" pay.
You have shared many memories of my short life in the Land-of-Sand! Fortunately I was there during a better time. Our pay had not been fiddled with, and I was allowed to leave the company living compound (EKG) in my first 11 days and moved to the EZDAN, and finally the Pearl Quarter.
But we endured many of the frustrations you mention.... deadheading for NO pay, never being allowed to fly to my home country, flying over India (where no CPDLC message was accepted until we endured the mandatory HF calls), airport hotels, a DOOR training session that was set in the middle of my days off, deadheading in uniform. Worst and stressful part was driving in Doha! (especially when tired) So not all of the irritation could be managed by QR, but certainly MOST of the problems could have been solved by treating us decently at very little or no cost.
There was NO training in ground school or simulator... There was NO positive reinforcement,.... It was all CHECKING!.
I would never recommend for a young pilot to consider going there. They have some lovely new airplanes with a goat on the tail, but this airline knows absolutely NOTHING about human factors .
I spent 1096 days flying the 777 for QR. (before you get your calculator out, this is 3 years plus 1 day). I had promised them 3 years, and I left only when I had a guarantee of getting my "final settlement" pay.
You have shared many memories of my short life in the Land-of-Sand! Fortunately I was there during a better time. Our pay had not been fiddled with, and I was allowed to leave the company living compound (EKG) in my first 11 days and moved to the EZDAN, and finally the Pearl Quarter.
But we endured many of the frustrations you mention.... deadheading for NO pay, never being allowed to fly to my home country, flying over India (where no CPDLC message was accepted until we endured the mandatory HF calls), airport hotels, a DOOR training session that was set in the middle of my days off, deadheading in uniform. Worst and stressful part was driving in Doha! (especially when tired) So not all of the irritation could be managed by QR, but certainly MOST of the problems could have been solved by treating us decently at very little or no cost.
There was NO training in ground school or simulator... There was NO positive reinforcement,.... It was all CHECKING!.
I would never recommend for a young pilot to consider going there. They have some lovely new airplanes with a goat on the tail, but this airline knows absolutely NOTHING about human factors .
Join Date: Jan 2009
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The only recourse you'll ever have is posting on here. And they don't care about that.
The World is awash with desperate Pilots. The career which was once great is finished. It's now just a job wherever you go.
To the thread starter it sounds like you need to change profession. It's all downhill from here.
The World is awash with desperate Pilots. The career which was once great is finished. It's now just a
job wherever you go.To the thread starter it sounds like you need to change profession. It's all downhill from here.
Fog Ducker and others, presumably you “weren’t allowed” to fly to your home country in case you absconded and never operated the return flights? Which wouldn’t be a concern of course if you were treated properly in the first place
Join Date: Mar 2019
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Against the grain…
I spent over 8 years at QR and never once ran into any of the issues been written about here. i heard plenty of stories during my time there and one underlying issue with them was the source. The people the stories were about would probably no doubt have an issue with their employer no matter where in the world they worked.
I finished my time there as a TRE on both the A330 and A320 and my family and I had a bloody good life while we were in Doha. It has afforded me the opportunity to go elsewhere in the world to ply my trade to good effect.
The one part I will agree on is that when I joined (as an FO) the training wasn’t training, (unless you got a good trainer who was doing it for the right reason), it was check check check! After about 3½ years that changed when they bought in the EBT programme and it changed for the better! It became more about training and less about checking, however if for some reason you were inadequate, you were given extra sessions to bring you up to the appropriate level.
I would never have joined the training department had the philosophy of training not changed.
Obviously, having left the airline 3 years ago I cannot comment on recent issues being faced, things have changed as they have everywhere else in the world. The life in aviation has been changed now, due to COVID, throughout the world and it is going to take a long time for the industry to recover. Airlines are doing what they have to do to survive, whether it is black, white or grey, and as pilots we have to as well. Some of the things being done are extreme and please don’t get me wrong, a lot of what is going on, I do not agree with and is most definitely detrimental to the ongoing safety of crew and passengers.
Another point about the author of this article made was regarding the stripes worn by various First Officers. The principal used by Qatar Airways was the same as that used in both airlines I flew for in the UK before going there. A junior FO (to the company) had two stripes until it was deemed he was senior enough, and had enough experience, to become a senior FO and get another stripe. A Second Officer has one stripe. Interestingly enough it is also the same where I work now.
Age most certainly does not have anything to do with it…
Now what I’ve written is only my account of my time at Qatar Airways. As I said I cannot and will not assume to know what has happened since leaving. I do know wherever you are and whatever you do, people will have different experiences based on their personalities etc and not everywhere is the right fit for everyone.
I finished my time there as a TRE on both the A330 and A320 and my family and I had a bloody good life while we were in Doha. It has afforded me the opportunity to go elsewhere in the world to ply my trade to good effect.
The one part I will agree on is that when I joined (as an FO) the training wasn’t training, (unless you got a good trainer who was doing it for the right reason), it was check check check! After about 3½ years that changed when they bought in the EBT programme and it changed for the better! It became more about training and less about checking, however if for some reason you were inadequate, you were given extra sessions to bring you up to the appropriate level.
I would never have joined the training department had the philosophy of training not changed.
Obviously, having left the airline 3 years ago I cannot comment on recent issues being faced, things have changed as they have everywhere else in the world. The life in aviation has been changed now, due to COVID, throughout the world and it is going to take a long time for the industry to recover. Airlines are doing what they have to do to survive, whether it is black, white or grey, and as pilots we have to as well. Some of the things being done are extreme and please don’t get me wrong, a lot of what is going on, I do not agree with and is most definitely detrimental to the ongoing safety of crew and passengers.
Another point about the author of this article made was regarding the stripes worn by various First Officers. The principal used by Qatar Airways was the same as that used in both airlines I flew for in the UK before going there. A junior FO (to the company) had two stripes until it was deemed he was senior enough, and had enough experience, to become a senior FO and get another stripe. A Second Officer has one stripe. Interestingly enough it is also the same where I work now.
Age most certainly does not have anything to do with it…
Now what I’ve written is only my account of my time at Qatar Airways. As I said I cannot and will not assume to know what has happened since leaving. I do know wherever you are and whatever you do, people will have different experiences based on their personalities etc and not everywhere is the right fit for everyone.
Join Date: Nov 2002
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JRK
From your previous posts it doesn't sound to me that you are in a position to comment on the mind set of an experienced airline pilot who is willing to tell it as it is.
"Hello Dears,
Could someone please point me to where I could find the detailed course content or LO's for EASA IR(A)? I have my ATPL theory done and looking to start IR training in a few months.
I understand more or less what those 55hrs are about, but somehow cannot find any document, which would detail the course by actual areas/lessons and such.
Appreciating your help in advance.
Thanks,
JRK"
From your previous posts it doesn't sound to me that you are in a position to comment on the mind set of an experienced airline pilot who is willing to tell it as it is.
"Hello Dears,
Could someone please point me to where I could find the detailed course content or LO's for EASA IR(A)? I have my ATPL theory done and looking to start IR training in a few months.
I understand more or less what those 55hrs are about, but somehow cannot find any document, which would detail the course by actual areas/lessons and such.
Appreciating your help in advance.
Thanks,
JRK"
Join Date: May 1999
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I left a year ago, retiring, everyone said “perfect timing”. I can see things are very much worse now.Whilst in the leaving process, pilots were being terminated for being members on Whatsapp Groups, especially a bunch of Italians about 30 in number, whose only crime was to receive messages. I always treated it as a day job.Here today ,tomorrow, i don’t t know.otherwise you will walk around, scared of your own shadow and that is not good for flight safety, or your health.My heart bleeds for all the people who have no other choice but to stay.I was lucky to last over 9 years. Was allowed to buy some non refundable staff tickets valid for a year.Of course Covid meant no travel.I emailed staff travel, to see if they would extend them, i got no help or definitive reply, as expected.
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To the OP, my hat's off to you for a stupendous post. Bravo sir!
In this and other guises, I've been a PPRuNer since its inception and, throughout those 2½ decades, there have been some posts of distinction and this (imho) is one of them; it being all of factual and humorous.
One can but hope that the mods will choose to make it a 'sticky', for the enlightenment of any whom might be bedazzled by the big shiny jets to be had in various sandpits and yet foolish enough to consider joining them. With a post such as this, they can't say that they haven't been warned.
In this and other guises, I've been a PPRuNer since its inception and, throughout those 2½ decades, there have been some posts of distinction and this (imho) is one of them; it being all of factual and humorous.
One can but hope that the mods will choose to make it a 'sticky', for the enlightenment of any whom might be bedazzled by the big shiny jets to be had in various sandpits and yet foolish enough to consider joining them. With a post such as this, they can't say that they haven't been warned.
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Wow! thank goodness I’m long retired. In this context it is amusing to read this blurb on Qatar pilot recruitment: https://www.airlineprep.co.uk/career...nd-assessment/
after reading the reality in this thread. My deepest sympathy with the OP and any others under the QR jackboot.
As the OP asked, how is QR allowed to operate into airports controlled by authorities whose home airlines operate to civilised standards? Having said that, even when I was still flying, my airline had a blacklist of airlines on which we never positioned/ dead headed, but which nevertheless operated into our home airports. QR didn’t exist then, but given the strength of our union, probably would have been on the blacklist, and certainly should be now, given the conditions quoted above.
The problem is, as we know, that standards are de facto left to the airlines’ host country by the international aviation authorities, probably due to pressure from cash strapped ‘Western’ airlines, in order to avoid jeopardising the lucrative routes of home airlines into wealthy countries like Qatar, thus effectively allowing the conditions described herein to exist.
On a not entirely disconnected subject, I recently had a holiday in Oman, and enjoyed the company of an Oman Air training captain who appeared reasonably happy with his airline.(this was pre COVID)
after reading the reality in this thread. My deepest sympathy with the OP and any others under the QR jackboot.
As the OP asked, how is QR allowed to operate into airports controlled by authorities whose home airlines operate to civilised standards? Having said that, even when I was still flying, my airline had a blacklist of airlines on which we never positioned/ dead headed, but which nevertheless operated into our home airports. QR didn’t exist then, but given the strength of our union, probably would have been on the blacklist, and certainly should be now, given the conditions quoted above.
The problem is, as we know, that standards are de facto left to the airlines’ host country by the international aviation authorities, probably due to pressure from cash strapped ‘Western’ airlines, in order to avoid jeopardising the lucrative routes of home airlines into wealthy countries like Qatar, thus effectively allowing the conditions described herein to exist.
On a not entirely disconnected subject, I recently had a holiday in Oman, and enjoyed the company of an Oman Air training captain who appeared reasonably happy with his airline.(this was pre COVID)
Last edited by Shackeng; 19th Aug 2021 at 16:10.
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Don’t understand the whining and racist comments … Don’t like the place leave , go back to your own country or wherever you like and do whatever makes you happy or maybe don’t come in the first place to the Middle East .