Vaccine implications on your licence
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aussiefarmer
My point is quite simple and you have given it in your own last paragraph. This guy should be peer reviewed by for instance other MIT qualified scientists. In my view, nobody on PPRUNE is in a position to do that. As I have said before, it is not just him, there are many doctors and scientists voicing their concerns and I as a layman have difficulty in knowing what to believe.
A point that stands out to me is that all of them agree on the complexity of the human immune system. Nobody at this stage really have an idea what the long term effects of the new mRNA vaccines will be. It reminds me of the documentary I watched on the nuclear testing in the Pacific and how shocked the scientists were when the thing they triggered, yielded a vastly greater boom than expected. I get the impression that these vaccines were rushed through and it is evident today just by reading the mainstream media. Problems with supply, distribution, efficacy etc.
So where does this leave us? On the one hand, we have doctors and scientists warning us to think carefully about getting vaccinated and on the other side companies pushing us very hard to get the jab. What is the age old saying? Follow the money maybe?
About your one engine over continental Europe analogy.......yes, overflying a perfectly suitable airport with only one engine remaining is not wise, but should Europe be fogged in/snowed in/45 knot cross wind.....and you are in a machine with a 207 min capability, maybe it is not such a bad idea to go look for somewhere better to land? There are always many more considerations.
My point is quite simple and you have given it in your own last paragraph. This guy should be peer reviewed by for instance other MIT qualified scientists. In my view, nobody on PPRUNE is in a position to do that. As I have said before, it is not just him, there are many doctors and scientists voicing their concerns and I as a layman have difficulty in knowing what to believe.
A point that stands out to me is that all of them agree on the complexity of the human immune system. Nobody at this stage really have an idea what the long term effects of the new mRNA vaccines will be. It reminds me of the documentary I watched on the nuclear testing in the Pacific and how shocked the scientists were when the thing they triggered, yielded a vastly greater boom than expected. I get the impression that these vaccines were rushed through and it is evident today just by reading the mainstream media. Problems with supply, distribution, efficacy etc.
So where does this leave us? On the one hand, we have doctors and scientists warning us to think carefully about getting vaccinated and on the other side companies pushing us very hard to get the jab. What is the age old saying? Follow the money maybe?
About your one engine over continental Europe analogy.......yes, overflying a perfectly suitable airport with only one engine remaining is not wise, but should Europe be fogged in/snowed in/45 knot cross wind.....and you are in a machine with a 207 min capability, maybe it is not such a bad idea to go look for somewhere better to land? There are always many more considerations.
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Neektu
No disrespect intended, but you watching the video to the end and making notes does not really help me.
Anyway, I think I have said enough now, back to aviation it is 👍🏻
No disrespect intended, but you watching the video to the end and making notes does not really help me.
Anyway, I think I have said enough now, back to aviation it is 👍🏻
I don't think there are many genuine doctors and scientists voicing their concerns. And, to be honest, you as an intelligent layman should not have difficulty in this particular case. It seems very clear that he is sewing confusion and misinformation, just look at the glaring internal inconsistencies in that video, some of which I have flagged. You don't need to know anything except what he tells you, just critically examine the content.
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Originally Posted by 14 6
About your one engine over continental Europe analogy.......yes, overflying a perfectly suitable airport with only one engine remaining is not wise, but should Europe be fogged in/snowed in/45 knot cross wind.
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146; I have to applaud your views. Very balanced and seeking justification before decision. Just what we Prof pilots were selected for, trained for and checked on, continuously throughout our careers. You are far from alone in taking a step back & considering a wider view. The daily dross I am fed with from so-called Governments & 'experts' is wholly unconvincing & when I hear of Government Ministers handing out multi millions of tax-payers money to fellow ex-pub landlord mates (just for starters) leaves me very unsympathetic to the 'no brainers' who who just line up, roll up the sleeve and take the jab because big bro said so .
Sorry Emma. I know you did not want to promote a vax/no vax debate, so I'll stop myself there. I just wanted to add support to 146 who sounds very cool -headed indeed.
Sorry Emma. I know you did not want to promote a vax/no vax debate, so I'll stop myself there. I just wanted to add support to 146 who sounds very cool -headed indeed.
Great post Marcellus. I think LF was taking a poke at a DM article where the headline grab was "No jab, No job...it's a no brainer " from a hitherto respected columnist who turned around from balanced reporting to suggesting that he would crawl on his "naked belly" to get the jab in order to restore his rights to get back to the pub ! Ok, I hear you all say " it's the DM for C s sake."..
The Queen would say what she said.............wouldn't she (?)...........Journalistic no brainer there too.
Delighted that you take an informed view and decide.. Many of us are doing the same. We resist the patronising , head-line grabbing dross that faces us every day and give a Churchillian salute to the equally mindless Bully Boys who threaten with vitreol & intended violence if we meet in the street ! I Cheer the right and freedom to decide for ourselves. I Totally respect your views and rights. I Simply ask for similar balance.
The Queen would say what she said.............wouldn't she (?)...........Journalistic no brainer there too.
Delighted that you take an informed view and decide.. Many of us are doing the same. We resist the patronising , head-line grabbing dross that faces us every day and give a Churchillian salute to the equally mindless Bully Boys who threaten with vitreol & intended violence if we meet in the street ! I Cheer the right and freedom to decide for ourselves. I Totally respect your views and rights. I Simply ask for similar balance.
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Marcellus ; Your post that GM was referring to has disappeared. Makes his post above look a bit odd.
GM tells me on our week-end call that he has now been denied, even a view of Jetblast having previously been warned off to stay away from the Corona Virus thread of the same forum .
Too many toes stepped on methinks.
GM tells me on our week-end call that he has now been denied, even a view of Jetblast having previously been warned off to stay away from the Corona Virus thread of the same forum .
Too many toes stepped on methinks.
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The FAA appears at this stage to only permit licence holders to take either Pfizer-BioNTech, Moderna or Johnson & Johnson.
Landflap - No apology needed whatsoever.
Landflap - No apology needed whatsoever.
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All the best fellas. You're all intelligent individuals.
No need for me to rehash articles available on public domain. Too much diarrhoea.
Just don't take too long to decide. Cheers.
Really sad reading of the situation in the Czech Republic. Early success with masks etc. all gone to waste...this quote just sums up some of the discussions going on:
The Czech media, he said, has contributed to some of the confusion earlier in the pandemic. "There's often this logic of 'for and against.' So if you have a guest who says face masks are useful, let's also have a guest who says they are not. And if you have a guest who says coronavirus is dangerous, you also need to invite someone who says it's not dangerous and most people are fine."
This has distorted reality, Kulveit believes. "Of course there are debates going on in the expert circles, but if you look at the field of epidemiology, some 95% of experts agree on the consensus and then you have perhaps 5% who dissent, but in the media, this is presented as 50:50, and then on social media, it could become 20 - 80 " he added.
Sorry - perhaps not relevant to the topic.
No need for me to rehash articles available on public domain. Too much diarrhoea.
Just don't take too long to decide. Cheers.
Really sad reading of the situation in the Czech Republic. Early success with masks etc. all gone to waste...this quote just sums up some of the discussions going on:
The Czech media, he said, has contributed to some of the confusion earlier in the pandemic. "There's often this logic of 'for and against.' So if you have a guest who says face masks are useful, let's also have a guest who says they are not. And if you have a guest who says coronavirus is dangerous, you also need to invite someone who says it's not dangerous and most people are fine."
This has distorted reality, Kulveit believes. "Of course there are debates going on in the expert circles, but if you look at the field of epidemiology, some 95% of experts agree on the consensus and then you have perhaps 5% who dissent, but in the media, this is presented as 50:50, and then on social media, it could become 20 - 80 " he added.
Sorry - perhaps not relevant to the topic.
Last edited by Marcellus Wallace; 28th Feb 2021 at 05:48.
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The FAA appears at this stage to only permit licence holders to take either Pfizer-BioNTech, Moderna or Johnson & Johnson
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Whilst the FAA may not approve non US vaccines that does not auto imply an FAA licence problem. It may simply mean that you need a dose of the US approved vaccine (in addition to whatever you may have taken in DXB) before exercising the privileges of, in this case, an FAA licence.
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I stand to be corrected , it appears that the only restrictions are country based (48-72 hrs) . An FAA licence holder working for EK does not need to apply FAA restrictions only UAE restriction , which are similar anyways . As more vaccines become approved by the country the CAA of that country will approve . Hence no real implications to any vaccines.
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Are there any blood exams out there that can detect what kind of vaccine is in your system? If your CAA back home is such a bully, why do you have to inform them? FFS just take any vaccine available and get yourself a temporary shelter for six months or so until more options accepted in your home country are available if this is the case!
Last edited by Murrenfan; 2nd Mar 2021 at 20:16.
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With regards to this topic, there seems to be a number of known unknowns never mind the unknown unknowns that the past year has often generated. With there being little to no job security throughout the ME, it makes sense to try and ensure that your credentials are in order, should the worst happen. Blood tests may not even be required to verify what vaccine you had if personal vaccine data is held electronically and is made accessible to multiple countries and potentially to multiple organisations as well. As aircrew, it would be hard to avoid having to participate in such a system. Despite the concerns regarding personal data protection, it seems that these are being overshadowed in Europe at least by the desire to open up borders. However it still remains to be seen how this will develop.
It’s also not outside the realms of reality that certain counties will require vaccination in lieu of any quarantine period but specific vaccines will only be accepted. The Cypriots have pledged to open their borders for tourists from May but vaccines that are approved by the EMA will only be accepted. Given how cautious Oz and NZ have been throughout the pandemic then I wouldn't be surprised if they only recognise selected vaccines. The TGA in Oz have already remarked to the press that vaccine trial data from China and Russia is rather limited. Will we see Aussies and Kiwis with the ‘wrong’ vaccine still having to sit in a hotel for close for two weeks?
I am sure these potential hurdles will fade into insignificance over time, as the effectiveness of each vaccine becomes apparent. Vaccines from China and Russia may prove to be very effective but determining that will take time to establish. Until that point is reached, I suspect not every country will open its doors to travellers with just any vaccine.
It’s also not outside the realms of reality that certain counties will require vaccination in lieu of any quarantine period but specific vaccines will only be accepted. The Cypriots have pledged to open their borders for tourists from May but vaccines that are approved by the EMA will only be accepted. Given how cautious Oz and NZ have been throughout the pandemic then I wouldn't be surprised if they only recognise selected vaccines. The TGA in Oz have already remarked to the press that vaccine trial data from China and Russia is rather limited. Will we see Aussies and Kiwis with the ‘wrong’ vaccine still having to sit in a hotel for close for two weeks?
I am sure these potential hurdles will fade into insignificance over time, as the effectiveness of each vaccine becomes apparent. Vaccines from China and Russia may prove to be very effective but determining that will take time to establish. Until that point is reached, I suspect not every country will open its doors to travellers with just any vaccine.
Emma, I might be wrong but it appeared to me that the Cyps have opened up for UK tourists as opposed to "all". Saw the Minister's broadcast yesterday. Very specific vaccines will only be accepted. I noted also that while the door has been opened to the Brits as of 1st of May, the UK still will not prevent non-essential travel until, possibly, 16 May. In addition, severe restriction of movement in Cyprus remains until at least March 16. I was stopped twice, yesterday and asked for my Citizen/PR declaration authorising my three hour "essential" movement These too would have to be eased in order to let in the Brits on the Ist May who are not allowed to leave the Uk until the MAY 16 anyway ! All quite farcical . Cops were cute chics who would not accept that I was over 65......made my day......
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From the esteemed medical journal, Newsweek no less! If it were so serious the Danish and Icelandic authorities would have cited particular events pertaining to said blood clots. Nothing from either.
