EK to Decommission 50%+ of Airbus A380, Axe 1/2 of Pilots & Cabin Crew
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Xulu
Thanks for bringing some sense to the discussion Xulu.
Fly Dubai integration might actually bring A380s return forward. It's all about feeding the hub and economies of scale. B737s do not compete with A380s.
Totally different product, range and routes with a variety of pax segments.
When demand recovers, most if not all A380s will fly. EK will certainly look for their replacement but this crisis is going to have an impact in their future ability to purchase frames - particularly when whale residual values are close to zero.
Thanks for bringing some sense to the discussion Xulu.
Fly Dubai integration might actually bring A380s return forward. It's all about feeding the hub and economies of scale. B737s do not compete with A380s.
Totally different product, range and routes with a variety of pax segments.
When demand recovers, most if not all A380s will fly. EK will certainly look for their replacement but this crisis is going to have an impact in their future ability to purchase frames - particularly when whale residual values are close to zero.
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Owners will desperately want to recover losses at all costs . Same as Dubai infrastructure- revenue before expenditures, aka greed ! This winter recall of redundant pilots ? Guesses? Limited number of LWOP guys being called back now . Not that it's a huge market but I was surprised at the very low vaccination rate in Japan . Anyone have any insight?
I think your completely deluded if you think all the 380’s will be operational again in large numbers. This was the perfect excuse for EK to get rid of the massive burden of too many 380’s, hence the mass layoffs of pilots. Personally I’m glad to be out of there and lose the Stockholm syndrome I had. Wouldn’t go back if they asked (honestly).
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EK does need to get to a certain size so it can pay off debt and service the Dubai economy. Ideally they'd be flush with cash, able to order another 100 widebodies and have them delivered alongside 1000 type ratings within the next two years, but they can't.
It's a thorn in their side, but they are stuck with the A380, and they are stuck with the debt incurred. More debt can be taken on or re-financed with fresh revenue, but dramatically downsizing and losing half their revenue capability is not an option. I don't think the Gov agrees COVID is "a perfect excuse" to scrap $20bn of assets that is to date only fractionally paid off or leased. Let's not forget, they are still set to receive many more frames.
You cannot just pull this thorn out or pretend it doesn't exist. Yes they might only break even, or run at a small loss while the debt winds down - but it's better than spending another $20bn on premature replacement aircraft.
Again, they have already incurred most of the debt/cost involved with an expansive A380 operation, and will be very much hoping that demand picks up again to service this debt until they can suitably replace the fleet.
It's a thorn in their side, but they are stuck with the A380, and they are stuck with the debt incurred. More debt can be taken on or re-financed with fresh revenue, but dramatically downsizing and losing half their revenue capability is not an option. I don't think the Gov agrees COVID is "a perfect excuse" to scrap $20bn of assets that is to date only fractionally paid off or leased. Let's not forget, they are still set to receive many more frames.
You cannot just pull this thorn out or pretend it doesn't exist. Yes they might only break even, or run at a small loss while the debt winds down - but it's better than spending another $20bn on premature replacement aircraft.
Again, they have already incurred most of the debt/cost involved with an expansive A380 operation, and will be very much hoping that demand picks up again to service this debt until they can suitably replace the fleet.
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Exactly, and don’t forget that whilst it makes all sense for airlines such as EY or AF to retire their single digit whale fleets, it does not mean it makes sense for EK.
EK was reasonably profitable before the pandemic despite their massive A380 fleet and that’s because of economies of scale which perfectly complements the hub model.
If you fill up an A380, it is almost as economical to run as 2 B787s when looking at fuel burn per seat mile (only 5% worse) That does not take into account the savings when operating 1 vs 2 frames or 100 vs 200 in terms of ground staff, crew, facilities, airport fees etc etc.
And, even A380 haters agree that the onboard product is unmatchable.
So, in summary, yes, most if not all A380s will fly again as long as demand recovers to 2019 levels within the next couple of years. They might want to bring forward retirement of the older frames if recovery takes longer than expected though.
EK was reasonably profitable before the pandemic despite their massive A380 fleet and that’s because of economies of scale which perfectly complements the hub model.
If you fill up an A380, it is almost as economical to run as 2 B787s when looking at fuel burn per seat mile (only 5% worse) That does not take into account the savings when operating 1 vs 2 frames or 100 vs 200 in terms of ground staff, crew, facilities, airport fees etc etc.
And, even A380 haters agree that the onboard product is unmatchable.
So, in summary, yes, most if not all A380s will fly again as long as demand recovers to 2019 levels within the next couple of years. They might want to bring forward retirement of the older frames if recovery takes longer than expected though.
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I think the ‘delta’ series of 380s have come to the end of their useful life now; that’ll leave some 90 airframes to get running again although I believe that currently approx 33 are being rotated so are up to speed for operations.
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The single tear rolls down my cheek (Sarcasm).
This is as bad as the QF hero’s driving buses in north SYD. In turn, taking a job away from someone who actually needed it, just because they didn’t want to stay at home with the wife.🤮
The world is expected to express pity upon us because, why ? We collectively have managed to swindle a 6 figure salary, housing, medical, provident fund and schooling for our children and yet have no pot to p1ss in? Disgraceful.
I’ve yet to see anyone express any sympathy for the thousands of migrant workers we’ve all ferried back to third world countries with nothing, yet we demand that they feel remorse for us!?
I doubt anyone would look twice if a RTA driver was wearing his uniform after being furloughed due to COVID, was working as a butcher. And to think anything less than they are crazy would be an understatement.
Yet, the question one needs to ask is; why we feel compassion/heart ache for the privileged & not others?
I guess the RTA taxi driver has no family, no house and no bills and is not as distinguished as we think we are - right?
I wonder what the public would think of us if they knew our friends the Butchers’ prov. fund/EOSB, and old mate QF’s AON/Super was a 6 figure pay day?
the Human animal, an interesting specimen to say the least.
This is as bad as the QF hero’s driving buses in north SYD. In turn, taking a job away from someone who actually needed it, just because they didn’t want to stay at home with the wife.🤮
The world is expected to express pity upon us because, why ? We collectively have managed to swindle a 6 figure salary, housing, medical, provident fund and schooling for our children and yet have no pot to p1ss in? Disgraceful.
I’ve yet to see anyone express any sympathy for the thousands of migrant workers we’ve all ferried back to third world countries with nothing, yet we demand that they feel remorse for us!?
I doubt anyone would look twice if a RTA driver was wearing his uniform after being furloughed due to COVID, was working as a butcher. And to think anything less than they are crazy would be an understatement.
Yet, the question one needs to ask is; why we feel compassion/heart ache for the privileged & not others?
I guess the RTA taxi driver has no family, no house and no bills and is not as distinguished as we think we are - right?
I wonder what the public would think of us if they knew our friends the Butchers’ prov. fund/EOSB, and old mate QF’s AON/Super was a 6 figure pay day?
the Human animal, an interesting specimen to say the least.
Last edited by TBL Warrior; 8th Jun 2021 at 10:22.
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Good on them I say. We can poke fun at them as much as we want but they have pushed themselves out of their comfort zone and tried something new and I applaud them for that. I don't think I would have the courage to wear my epaulettes behind a butcher's counter but having done so has likely proved to be a resounding public relations success.
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Don't get me wrong. I don't look down on anyone who lost they job and are now reevaluating their career. Accepting anything that comes they way. We all need to feed our families. I would even scrub toilets or have in the past.
Heck in Germany a few pilots are becoming train drivers.
What I am annoyed with is this "Look at me I was a pilot for a world class airline. Now I am driving buses. How special am I"
Wearing epaulettes and getting filmed while working in a butchery is a cheap PR stunt by EK to soften the blow and deny reality. Which is that hundreds of pilots are finding themselves in a crisis and unemployed. Which is the doing of EK themselves.
Heck in Germany a few pilots are becoming train drivers.
What I am annoyed with is this "Look at me I was a pilot for a world class airline. Now I am driving buses. How special am I"
Wearing epaulettes and getting filmed while working in a butchery is a cheap PR stunt by EK to soften the blow and deny reality. Which is that hundreds of pilots are finding themselves in a crisis and unemployed. Which is the doing of EK themselves.
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Joker11
I don’t think I’ve ever read such rubbish.
There are guys are living out of dustbins and these boys playing at being butchers and what a pat on the back for it?
All this piece of absolute horse manure fluff does, is distract from how EK have handled this pandemic.
Well done boys! Give yourselves a hand! Look how well everyone is doing!
Look how EK are taking care of their furloughed pilots.
Look how they are able to use this time off to do the things they love. Braiiii!!!!
Always the same rubbish coming out of Dubai. And always the same “type A personalities” are leading the charge.
I don’t think I’ve ever read such rubbish.
There are guys are living out of dustbins and these boys playing at being butchers and what a pat on the back for it?
All this piece of absolute horse manure fluff does, is distract from how EK have handled this pandemic.
Well done boys! Give yourselves a hand! Look how well everyone is doing!
Look how EK are taking care of their furloughed pilots.
Look how they are able to use this time off to do the things they love. Braiiii!!!!
Always the same rubbish coming out of Dubai. And always the same “type A personalities” are leading the charge.
An exceptional example of how we have an elevated perception of ourselves, this utopian society (the art of selflessness I.e go fund me) conflicts with the capitalist socioeconomic system we live, and will die by.
Stephen Hawking’s suggestion that we are still too primitive in our evolution seems accurate.
I respectfully decline to engage in any name calling, and henceforth graciously concede.
Stephen Hawking’s suggestion that we are still too primitive in our evolution seems accurate.
I respectfully decline to engage in any name calling, and henceforth graciously concede.
Last edited by TBL Warrior; 8th Jun 2021 at 12:26.
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TBL Warrior
I agree. This is what happens when people wrap their self identity with their equipment, title and status at their employer (exacerbated by an employer that is not conducive to a healthy work/life balance). If they end up at the bottom of another carrier will they insist their new superiors call them “captain”?! I wonder if those Qantas pilots turned bus drivers tell people to refer to them as “captain” in their new vocation? I’ve even seen people showing off their tattoos of 380s or 4 stripes which is not in any way sane. It’s a small minority but some EK egos are intense. This is not a healthy place to be mentally. I feel sorry for all those impacted regardless. This last year has shown there’s much more to life than your career.
I agree. This is what happens when people wrap their self identity with their equipment, title and status at their employer (exacerbated by an employer that is not conducive to a healthy work/life balance). If they end up at the bottom of another carrier will they insist their new superiors call them “captain”?! I wonder if those Qantas pilots turned bus drivers tell people to refer to them as “captain” in their new vocation? I’ve even seen people showing off their tattoos of 380s or 4 stripes which is not in any way sane. It’s a small minority but some EK egos are intense. This is not a healthy place to be mentally. I feel sorry for all those impacted regardless. This last year has shown there’s much more to life than your career.
Last edited by VThokie2; 8th Jun 2021 at 16:07.
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acryingshame
You should read the previous comments before you jump down people’s throats.
Clown.
Its not about resilience. It’s about how well furloughed EK pilots are doing.
All it does is distract from how EK have managed the last year.
You are the clueless moron you speak of.
You should read the previous comments before you jump down people’s throats.
Clown.
Its not about resilience. It’s about how well furloughed EK pilots are doing.
All it does is distract from how EK have managed the last year.
You are the clueless moron you speak of.