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EK to Decommission 50%+ of Airbus A380, Axe 1/2 of Pilots & Cabin Crew

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EK to Decommission 50%+ of Airbus A380, Axe 1/2 of Pilots & Cabin Crew

Old 21st Nov 2020, 00:58
  #1141 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
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What are the pax loads like on the flights ? Flying around with double digit pax numbers isn't sustainable long term. Freight may be a big factor at the moment and might tip the scale past covering costs to actually making a profit on the operation, though overall the company is losing money. The A380 is almost certainly being used as nothing else is available and aircraft/crew currency can be maintained. If B777s, B787s or A350s could be used instead then the giant would be in a long term storage program.
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Old 21st Nov 2020, 02:27
  #1142 (permalink)  
 
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Fired600

The reason why the 777 guys were let go, was purely to take revenge if you’ve had an event of 3 or more weeks of sickness in the past, or they held a disciplinary against you. People with cancer, broken leg or similiar, even one who lost a close family member after an accident and required time off, they all could feel first hand that some dd in charge, we all know their names, give rats xss about anything... Just look at how they treat their workers so it should not come as a surprise....
Performance good or bad on the line or in the sim played nill factor. I know 2 guys with ‘stick it up your -ss awards’ who got the boot as well...Hence these ‘bad’ seeds were also not offered the UPL option....
They also reckon the school in dwc will produce enough of local sausage to fill the holes for a few years...
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Old 21st Nov 2020, 17:01
  #1143 (permalink)  
 
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I concur with 5 star on all points .
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Old 21st Nov 2020, 18:00
  #1144 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 5star
They also reckon the school in dwc will produce enough of local sausage to fill the holes for a few years...
Gotta hand you quote of the month for that one
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Old 21st Nov 2020, 18:07
  #1145 (permalink)  
 
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krismiler

Now you're just getting boring... But to answer your question. The LHR (until latest pointless UK lockdown) had high premium loads. Especially in First. Moscow? Pretty much full in all cabins. Once countries open up I reckon the 380 is going to be in high demand as there is a lot of pent up travel waiting to happen!

Why don't you go and bang your 787,321 or 350 drum elsewhere as you've been spouting this stuff since March on several forums! Air Travel WILL COME BACK in a big way... Not overnight but it will.
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Old 21st Nov 2020, 19:23
  #1146 (permalink)  
 
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Worth bearing in mind that there could be a greater percentage of pax in premium cabins using Skywards miles to either upgrade or fund their ticket, which in turn diminishes revenue. Flights are quiet and seat availability in theory should be abundant, unless the company has restricted this.

I do believe the 777 fleet was planned to contract slightly in size so whilst I am not disputing the malevolence of management, there may have been some rationale behind the decision to trim numbers. However given we are now short of pilots on the triple, it appears to have been grossly misjudged.
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Old 22nd Nov 2020, 01:34
  #1147 (permalink)  
 
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Air Travel WILL COME BACK in a big way... Not overnight but it will.
Agreed, IATA expect long haul travel to recover in 2024. Initially there will be a big surge when restrictions are lifted and pent up demand can be catered to, after that it will tail off into the new normal and a gradual recovery.

EK are in a unique position with the A380, being by far the largest operator and having the largest selection of possible routes for it. If they can't make money with it then no one can. However other airlines which have a handful of A380s making up a small percentage of their fleets are retiring them. The only other significant operator, SQ, is downsizing the fleet but will be refitting the cabins. A merged Korean Air/Asiana will probably retain them. The A380 will fly again but with a handful of operators in fewer numbers.

The question is "How many A380s can EK operate in the short to medium term while the industry recovers,and will it need the entire fleet again in 2024 ?" In 4 years time EK could have them all back in the air and be 1 of the few airlines with the type. Unfortunately COVID exposed the vulnerability of relying too much on long haul premium transit traffic, using large aircraft. Other hub airlines such as QR, TK, ET, SQ etc have smaller aircraft types which allow greater flexibility in destinations and frequencies.

EK could choose to reduce the A380 fleet if the recovery isn't as strong as predicted. Swapping B777-X orders for B787-9 was a good move. Narrow bodies would also be worth considering as they open up destinations which can't support the B777, and allow gradual increases in capacity and frequency on routes. FlyDubai isn't an equivalent product so the aircraft need to be EK operated.

After the pandemic, airlines will be looked at in detail to see how they performed during the crisis and changes could well be made where deficiencies are noted.
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Old 22nd Nov 2020, 05:22
  #1148 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by krismiler View Post
Agreed, IATA expect long haul travel to recover in 2024
Yes, agreed .... and by 2024 Trump will run again.
In the mean time Biden is president elect and the 380 is history, irrespective to whatever narrative you choose to abide to.

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Old 22nd Nov 2020, 07:13
  #1149 (permalink)  
 
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Swapping B777-X orders for B787-9 was a good move. Narrow bodies would also be worth considering as they open up destinations which can't support the B777, and allow gradual increases in capacity and frequency on routes. FlyDubai isn't an equivalent product so the aircraft need to be EK operated.
I think one of the reasons for getting the Max at FZ, along with the lie flat seats in business etc, was to align the 2 products a lot better.

The Max grounding didnt help with that of course but with new IFE's supposedly coming to the fz fleet next year, I think more enhancements are on the way to make it more of a EK style product on FZ aircraft. (with some limitations of course due to the size of the 737)

FZ has 200+ max's on order still, I see zero chance of EK ordering any narrow bodies.

(also, FZ has already been opening destinations for EK and taking over lower demand/seasonal routes which werent viable for EK)

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Old 22nd Nov 2020, 08:25
  #1150 (permalink)  
 
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So a possible Qantas and Jetstar arrangement, where pax on the premium carrier’s tickets can be accommodated on the LCC version and given a few extras such as 30kgs baggage, meals, seat selection, priority boarding, lounge access, FF miles etc ?

SQ and CX chose to bring the narrow bodies into the mainline operation, probably for greater control of the end product, but with increased costs.

Both approaches have their advantages and disadvantages and it will be interesting to see how it works out. I still feel that having EK operating smaller types under their own brand on more premium routes which can’t take the B777, and using FZ for leisure and worker destinations would give them an advantage, similar to Qantas and Jetstar both operating narrow bodies.
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Old 22nd Nov 2020, 11:49
  #1151 (permalink)  
 
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You are consistent Gloie. What is it now? A bit over a decade you have been predicting this? Don't, read the results of the latest Skywards survey, it will just upset you.
No doubt you will think it fake news, and claim you won. Oh wait there, that's that other fella that Biden arse kicked. What's his name again?
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Old 22nd Nov 2020, 19:00
  #1152 (permalink)  
 
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EK played and lost with the A380. The egoistic and aggressive expansion comes at a price. Yes, once Dubai was a hub and EK was number 1. By the time long haul travel fully recovers in 2024, direct routes from the UK to AUS and from India to the USA etc. will be the new norm.

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Old 23rd Nov 2020, 01:58
  #1153 (permalink)  
 
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Something strange is going on between FZ and EK they are not really working as partners in many markets.
New flights to Tel Aviv last example, 2 FZ daily flights and 1 EK flight in competition between each other or check Maldives ( basically same story )
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Old 23rd Nov 2020, 06:08
  #1154 (permalink)  
 
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Both government entities,do you not think it's all about max yield. Dubai can care less where the money comes from as long as they get it !
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Old 23rd Nov 2020, 06:50
  #1155 (permalink)  
 
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New flights to Tel Aviv last example, 2 FZ daily flights and 1 EK flight in competition between each other
I dont see any EK flights operating to Tel Aviv at all.. Just the 2 FZ flights.. Fz also doesnt do daily MLE at the moment. Whats interesting though is that booking on the EK website, the biz ticket on fz is almost double the price than what it is on the FZ website..
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Old 23rd Nov 2020, 11:07
  #1156 (permalink)  
 
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Hi Don

Yes, i am consistent and yes, i predicted the demise of the 380.
A bit of a lame try to revert my allegory against me, i have to say, not quite your normal league.
Btw: I actually do read Skywards, but my 16 years at EK told me how to interpret this publication.

I promise that if by 2024 there would be more than 25 dugongs flying regular line flights for EK, i will beg your pardon!
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Old 23rd Nov 2020, 12:38
  #1157 (permalink)  
 
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bluewhy

For my 6 cents worth I disagree.

Dubai is a hub and as much as we read about point to point it doesnt work 100% of the time, hubs will be required to get to airports that simply can’t attract point to point traffic Perth to Muscat for example.

Perth to London attracted a lot of media attention when Qantas started the route, how much cargo do they carry on that route ? Cargo is 25% of the revenue of some airlines, airlines can lower their fares by offering shorter legs carrying cargo and leaving fuel behind, ever looked at the passenger profile of some people you’ve flown over the years, they bought the ticket because of the price.

380s (I fly the 777) you can get more passengers into airports that have limited slots, everyone says the 380s good for London, Sydney etc ... it’s great for Dubai with its two runways and passengers love it!

We may not see 100 380s flying in 2024 but it will be around with Emirates for some time in big numbers.

Last edited by Enos; 23rd Nov 2020 at 12:50.
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Old 23rd Nov 2020, 14:19
  #1158 (permalink)  
 
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transport jock

https://www.jewishpress.com/news/tra...iv/2020/11/06/

You are correct EK does not fly to Tel Aviv yet, I was misled from the article above. The 2 FZ flights are not in codesharing with EK.
To Maldives FZ fly 5 times a week and daily sometimes ( end of December ) again no codeshare and in competition with the daily EK flight.
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Old 23rd Nov 2020, 18:43
  #1159 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Enos View Post

380s (I fly the 777) you can get more passengers into airports that have limited slots, everyone says the 380s good for London, Sydney etc ... itís great for Dubai with its two runways and passengers love it!
For the routes and the pax numbers you are referring to, a dozen A380s will be more than enough. And this is where EK has failed. They have 125.

Global trends suggest that the general public is becoming more and more environmentally conscious. Pax starting to prefer carriers who are offseting carbon emissions and use fuel efficient aircraft.

4 engine aircraft are a thing of the past whether we like it or not.
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Old 24th Nov 2020, 01:33
  #1160 (permalink)  
 
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There is no logical or financial reason to operate any 380 at any airline anywhere in the world. As simple as that. Also nobody really has a clue of how international travel will look like in the mid future, if it will exist in any significant form that is. This is the sad truth. You couldnít make it up, I know. But we might as well smell the coffee. Better focus on cargo and smaller airplanes believe me. And those lucky few who will come out of this with a flying job better count blessings.
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