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EK to Decommission 50%+ of Airbus A380, Axe 1/2 of Pilots & Cabin Crew

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EK to Decommission 50%+ of Airbus A380, Axe 1/2 of Pilots & Cabin Crew

Old 21st Jun 2020, 07:18
  #301 (permalink)  
 
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That's absolutely true but the emphasis of this whole thread is that EK has randomly kicked people out who seriously didnt deserve it...
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Old 21st Jun 2020, 08:17
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Just as many carriers. There's hardly a fair way to tell which 20% of the workforce "deserve" to go in such a situation. Of course, there are always some obviously troublesome people who will likely be first on the wrong list, but many get on it for reasons that are rather subjective. As you can read on all the other threads where the topic of seniority has been done to death, even the classic LIFO is very far from perfect. Actually, any strategy is equally bad if it puts you on the wrong list.
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Old 21st Jun 2020, 11:29
  #303 (permalink)  
 
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even the classic LIFO is very far from perfect
But show me a better, fairer system.

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Old 21st Jun 2020, 12:51
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A lottery? - OK I can see why that wouldn't suit the company but at least everyone gets the same chance.
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Old 21st Jun 2020, 14:39
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LIFO is seen as fair by those on top of the seniority list because it would safeguard them at the expense of their younger colleagues. Conversely, those on the wrong part of the list usually have different views, often along the lines of "why me, having 30 years of working life ahead, instead of someone having 3 years of working life left".

Whatever you do in such a situation, someone will be upset with it. There's no nice, non-discriminatory way of showing someone the door, especially in a situation when they are unlikely to find a comparable job anytime soon. Except for the case when the entire company has gone belly-up and everyone is in the same boat, someone will inevitably suffer more than someone else.
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Old 21st Jun 2020, 17:41
  #306 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by doolay
But show me a better, fairer system.
Maybe get rid of those on contracts while on leave without pay from other Airlines before you sack regular employees?
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Old 21st Jun 2020, 19:06
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LIFO ! Downgraded Captains easy requalifcation To the right seat . Those with warnings /sick days separate issue !
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Old 21st Jun 2020, 19:43
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Huddled around the boardroom table and trying to cut costs, the first thing that any executive will notice is that for the price of one twenty-year TRE who takes the accomodation allowance it is possible to pay two junior captains. As the executive swiftly types the email dumping the TRE it seems unlikely that LIFO crosses his mind.

There are few social justice warriors at that table.

Last edited by Dropp the Pilot; 21st Jun 2020 at 19:43. Reason: editing
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Old 21st Jun 2020, 20:55
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So in that scenario dumping the old guy is 'fairer' than LIFO as it allows you to save 2 jobs rather than one whilst still meeting the financial savings target.
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Old 22nd Jun 2020, 00:35
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ATC once again showed he is going to run this airline into the ground.
By sacking guys who’ve had 0 issues in their career, but had a onetime spike in sickness ( i personally know a guy who got the boot last week because he broke his leg in a car accident last year), he has changed everything.
If you get sick for more than a few days (who know how many that is now) for whatever reason, including an accident, you put yourself on death row....
Not only is this a very dangerous precedent in the airline industry, the effects on pilot retention in EK will be massive once this virus thing is over.
Everyone will now plan their career completely different once things normalise. Get in, maybe get a command and some hours and then get out ASAP.
The random sacking of guys is a game changer for +90% percent of the pilots remaining on the paylist.


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Old 22nd Jun 2020, 00:41
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Just like in the military, it’s better to be the “Grey Man” who doesn’t stand out. Not too junior, so you have some distance from LIFO, and not too senior and costing too much. No warning letters, no worker activism, minimal sick days and good test scores. Someone whose name and face are unknown to management.

John J. Anonymous
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Old 22nd Jun 2020, 00:49
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and to Dropp,
none of the TREs or TRIs have lost their job last week (except maybe 1 or 2 guys).
so ....try again.
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Old 22nd Jun 2020, 01:04
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What makes you so sure of the maybe only 1 or 2 guys? I or 2 guys whose faces didn’t fit you are correct!
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Old 22nd Jun 2020, 01:08
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I know at least 3 !
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Old 22nd Jun 2020, 01:42
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Originally Posted by 5star
and to Dropp,
none of the TREs or TRIs have lost their job last week (except maybe 1 or 2 guys).
so ....try again.
To be able to make that statement, you must know every single name on that list. If so, please tell us who else is going to get fired.
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Old 22nd Jun 2020, 02:00
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Well this is why caring company’s offer in the first round a retirement package - in case of EK a easy 200 pilots as not every senior captain is willing to fly 120hr/m for the next 3-5 years
second round is seniority thereafter if required down grade captains by seniority to right seat with given priority for the left again
that’s it - I have seen companies doing exactly this and combined with unpaid leave short work etc it worked well and found a wide understanding amongst employees but that’s only for manager who cares

if people get sacked over cost position e.g. using sick days and costing medical support to the company means only you penalized over using your contracted “health insurance “ where you not even have a choice to do different - excellent system

and punishing somebody over one misshab in operation - if one of you is supportive to such a criteria be careful it could be you for farting into the seat and getting reported

avaiation had only on fair system - seniority as it let everybody know where he/she stands and not having sleepless night - interfering safety while the circumstances how you are chosen stay in the dark


Last edited by WB1900; 22nd Jun 2020 at 11:25.
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Old 22nd Jun 2020, 08:58
  #317 (permalink)  
 
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Just wish we had the balls to do what our Commercial Licences privilage us to do ; Fly for Hire / Reward. Doesn't matter a dam what is written on the side of an aeroplane. But, we all fall in the trap of making up silly answers to even sillier questions from nerdy management like " How long do you intend staying with us ?" . After retirement, I continued to consult in recruitment and had to tell, many times, daft HR bods to stop asking that or similar questions. I would defend candidates by suggesting that they were already "commercial" pilots. They will stay as long as it suits, That is the essence of flying for hire / reward.

There will be no recruitment for a long time and if it returns, we will continue to be asked that same, daft question and we will continue to invent even more daft answers.

Survival in the rat-race and we will do what it takes. Heart breaking awful times. Bon chance to all who survive & stick with it.
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Old 22nd Jun 2020, 09:03
  #318 (permalink)  

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the effects on pilot retention in EK will be massive once this virus thing is over. Everyone will now plan their career completely different once things normalise. Get in, maybe get a command and some hours and then get out ASAP.
To join a proper airline with seniority - at the bottom - who have unions and will respect LIFO through the worst of times - putting yourself right on the next firing line voluntarily. Doesn't read like a plan a significant majority of qualified PIC would sign their families for.

Don't worry about the future. Live through today and plan something enjoyable with your dearest for the immediate tomorrow.

Last edited by FlightDetent; 22nd Jun 2020 at 10:07.
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Old 22nd Jun 2020, 14:16
  #319 (permalink)  
 
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That's certainly how it works in what is by far the world's largest airline hiring market, America (not North America ). And almost all pilots hired by major U.S. airlines have been PIC on something and have several thousand hours of turbine time just to get an interview.

The two large U.S. cargo airlines that are hiring right now are getting very good quality applicants I'm told.
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Old 22nd Jun 2020, 14:58
  #320 (permalink)  

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I have all the reasons to believe that, even if you said the queue runs trice around the HQ building. In another good time, will the re-located and settled,7-years PICs of the future EK be leaving for those jobs as a group because of this month's moral lesson?
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