Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Worldwide > Middle East
Reload this Page >

Saudiís dirty game against its pilots

Middle East Many expats still flying in Knoteetingham. Regional issues can be discussed here.

Saudiís dirty game against its pilots

Old 9th Apr 2020, 14:22
  #41 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Mini KSA
Posts: 117
Originally Posted by Mohammed AlShehri View Post
As an unemployed saudi pilot ,I would like to say to all none Saudi pilots whom complaining a lot and talking bad about my country and Saudia Airlines, Saudia gave you a chance to earn flying hours and many type rating such as 777 and 787 and 330 as well while most Saudi National never had the chance to do so,
I wouldnít be so mean and say you wouldnít get a large salary like you did in saudia and never dream of being Captain in your countries, just be thankful and now you all have what you came for ( flight time ) (not for loving Saudia neither saudies )youíre not lost go back to your countries with what saudia honored ,you will find jobs , Now itís time for saudi pilots to fly in their country,
(one last thing I WOULD to say thank you FOR your SERVICE)

not your business if Saudia can or cannot survive without expatriates itís our business
That's the problem of saudis like many other people around : lack of knowledge how things work down in the civilization...
Python27 is offline  
Old 9th Apr 2020, 14:42
  #42 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rockytop, Tennessee, USA
Posts: 5,710
Originally Posted by Nuweiba View Post
Just to digress.... google old pictures of Saudia Tristars and other aircraft of that era. You will find two different fonts for the name Saudia. Apparently it was changed because some bright spark claimed that the older version had a cross in it between the S and the A.
Not the only time that's happened in the Middle East or elsewhere for that matter. A neighboring airline had a Quranic verse in its logo which was printed onto the interior upholstery of new aircraft. Someone decided that it was blasphemy to sit on the name of Allah so the interiors were redone.
Airbubba is offline  
Old 9th Apr 2020, 15:08
  #43 (permalink)  
short flights long nights
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 3,009
Originally Posted by Airbubba View Post
Not the only time that's happened in the Middle East or elsewhere for that matter. A neighboring airline had a Quranic verse in its logo which was printed onto the interior upholstery of new aircraft. Someone decided that it was blasphemy to sit on the name of Allah so the interiors were redone.

Really? Where does it end?
SOPS is online now  
Old 9th Apr 2020, 15:18
  #44 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Moscow
Posts: 4
Thumbs up

Originally Posted by Mohammed AlShehri View Post
As an unemployed saudi pilot ,I would like to say to all none Saudi pilots whom complaining a lot and talking bad about my country and Saudia Airlines, Saudia gave you a chance to earn flying hours and many type rating such as 777 and 787 and 330 as well while most Saudi National never had the chance to do so,
I wouldn’t be so mean and say you wouldn’t get a large salary like you did in saudia and never dream of being Captain in your countries, just be thankful and now you all have what you came for ( flight time ) (not for loving Saudia neither saudies )you’re not lost go back to your countries with what saudia honored ,you will find jobs , Now it’s time for saudi pilots to fly in their country,
(one last thing I WOULD to say thank you FOR your SERVICE)

not your business if Saudia can or cannot survive without expatriates it’s our business
Mohammed,
it is incorrect to say that Saudia gave a chance. Sounds like some people came to the country and got mountains of gold in exchange for nothing. They came to the place were they had been needed in order to perform certain work in certain conditions for certain money. Such relations are normally called "job". Now some pilots are feeling sad as the airline doesn't want to follow its own regulations and Saudian laws. Do they have the right to complain at least in the internet?

You are talking about salaries. Guess why the salary in Saudia is better than in Europe? Same aircraft, similar procedures...?
This is the market. European guy would never ever go to Saudia to work in the country where human rights are being abused, homosexuality leads to death penalty, etc. I don't want to say that this is bad, it's very unusual for the expats. It is not about politics, it's all about society and culture. They are very-very different. However, neither the airlines nor the pilots offered themselves to each other by force. Contracts had been signed, in a civilized world non-compliance with contracts causes at least
disapprobation from people. If pilots violate their contracts, they are normally being punished in accordance with actual Terms and Conditions, and they have only themselves to blame.
So may people who have been following their contracts complain and declare unfair treatment when they want?

Flying widebody aircraft is not only a privilege, it's a hard work that shall be done by professionals. It's understood by airline management and insurance companies. By the way, why do you think Saudi nationals never had chance to fly that aircraft? Health? Experience? Competence? What's their problem in your opinion? And how do you think, why are EU and the US airlines not hiring Saudian expat pilots? The job market of Europe and the United States is full of professionals ready to demonstrate their experience and competence, so guys with 5000+ TT and jet experience can hardly get captain job of A320/B737. At Middle East they can become widebody captains. What's the trick, how do you think?

The expat pilots (like all human beings) are not designed to like something they don't want to like, but they don't become less professional when tolerating East.
Excuse me, I'm not sure if anyone said that he is worried about Saudia survival. Honestly speaking, very few care, IMO. People just want their contracts to worth something more than the paper on which they are written. As for me, I would like to hear someday that Saudia aircraft are flown by the locals.
But! From you, not from avherald.

Last edited by palegreendot; 9th Apr 2020 at 15:39.
palegreendot is offline  
Old 9th Apr 2020, 15:40
  #45 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: shenzen
Age: 39
Posts: 279
Originally Posted by Mohammed AlShehri View Post
As an unemployed saudi pilot ,I would like to say to all none Saudi pilots whom complaining a lot and talking bad about my country and Saudia Airlines, Saudia gave you a chance to earn flying hours and many type rating such as 777 and 787 and 330 as well while most Saudi National never had the chance to do so,
I wouldnít be so mean and say you wouldnít get a large salary like you did in saudia and never dream of being Captain in your countries, just be thankful and now you all have what you came for ( flight time ) (not for loving Saudia neither saudies )youíre not lost go back to your countries with what saudia honored ,you will find jobs , Now itís time for saudi pilots to fly in their country,
(one last thing I WOULD to say thank you FOR your SERVICE)

not your business if Saudia can or cannot survive without expatriates itís our business
Hi Mohammed. I started reading your post thinking that you would write with some understanding and sympathy to the expat guys who've been terminated. Under current circumstances most of them will not get another job as a Pilot for several years. Your post disappointed me.

You need to understand that a lot of the unfair criticism is born of emotion and frustration in a terrible personal situation. It was unfair of you to reply to these guys in the manner which you did.

The expats were persuaded to come and work at Saudia by Saudi's. The persuasion included a lot of promises. Those promises were entirely reneged upon. Therefore bitterness should be understandable.

I enjoyed my time working at Saudia. I believe 99% of all the Saudi's who I worked with were Gentlemen, intelligent and very capable.

kungfu panda is online now  
Old 9th Apr 2020, 16:19
  #46 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rockytop, Tennessee, USA
Posts: 5,710
Originally Posted by SOPS View Post
Really? Where does it end?
There is just as much political correctness in Western airlines in my view, it's just different.

A brown cargo operator put its Worldwide Services boast on the side of a new aircraft type years ago. With the main cargo door open it proclaimed 'World vices'. That livery was redone I'm told.
Airbubba is offline  
Old 9th Apr 2020, 16:29
  #47 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: shenzen
Age: 39
Posts: 279
Originally Posted by polax52 View Post
As a Saudi, I wouldn't get involved here. People are venting a lot of stress and emotion.

The big issue regarding Saudiisation for expats: The Expats came from other high quality worldwide Airlines to Saudia. No one hired by Saudia was begging on the streets needing Saudia to come along and rescue them. Saudia management through agencies made a lot of promises. First Officers were promised command within 3 years. Captains were promised a rolling contract with a high salary which would take them to retirement.

You have to understand the degree of bitterness when these promises have been reneged upon. Then not only that, Saudia Jettison these Pilots into the worst worldwide aviation situation in history. Getting a job on this occasion is likely to take 5 years or more. These are guys who came from their national carriers to Saudia on a promise.
Accurate..
kungfu panda is online now  
Old 9th Apr 2020, 19:03
  #48 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: ME
Posts: 224
Originally Posted by truejoboffer View Post
I think you should avoid as an exuse motivate your crucked behind the scenes mascherading it as BS...it is you guys not BS and it looks like somebody is going to make you all go to
jail!!
What language are you talking?
Romasik is offline  
Old 9th Apr 2020, 22:00
  #49 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Saudia Arabia
Posts: 2
Originally Posted by FinalFixSv View Post
Donít talk about professionalism when Itís funny coming from expats who steal apples and bananas from the galley after every flight. Some of the expats are so cheap they beg for a ride from the Saudi first officers because they donít want to pay 40 riyals to Uber despite they heavy paycheck.
if you go to expatsí residence in Jeddah or Riyadh you see their fridges are filled with SV catering from water bottles to Tabasco. Even the tissue box they take it from the airplane.
You expats donít know that we know that you steal even time by playing with the clock and taxi and cruise on very low speed! This is Haram my friends
thatís the point being unthankful here we go , well go back to your country then where you canít even afford you uber rideís money
Mohammed AlShehri is offline  
Old 9th Apr 2020, 23:14
  #50 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Middle East
Posts: 327
This thread has lots of first time posters with interesting opinions LMAO
metro301 is offline  
Old 10th Apr 2020, 01:03
  #51 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rockytop, Tennessee, USA
Posts: 5,710
Originally Posted by metro301 View Post
This thread has lots of first time posters with interesting opinions LMAO
Agreed, and this guy's English is suspiciously good for a pilot. But I have to laugh, he has certainly seen some expat pilots in action.

Originally Posted by FinalFixSv View Post
Don’t talk about professionalism when It’s funny coming from expats who steal apples and bananas from the galley after every flight. Some of the expats are so cheap they beg for a ride from the Saudi first officers because they don’t want to pay 40 riyals to Uber despite they heavy paycheck.
if you go to expats’ residence in Jeddah or Riyadh you see their fridges are filled with SV catering from water bottles to Tabasco. Even the tissue box they take it from the airplane.
Airbubba is offline  
Old 10th Apr 2020, 06:43
  #52 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Congo
Posts: 2
Ponzi Scheme at SVA planners: How it works

The Ponzi scheme how it works: good flights LHR 42 hours, IAD 52 hours layovers, etc.. etc, were hidden under office boys roasters, then redistributed among the Ponzi scheme B777 Captains and F/O the crew got the good layovers and pays the planners the amount of the perdiems, at a rate of SR25 per hour. Deposit at the bank account!!!!!
captamericano is offline  
Old 10th Apr 2020, 08:19
  #53 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: P84
Posts: 15
All those years in English classes have finally paid off! Looks like the bots are in full force here.
ChocksOn is offline  
Old 10th Apr 2020, 12:02
  #54 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Up North
Posts: 0
There is this prevailing attitude in the West and the Far East, oh, and South America too, that Arabs are untrustworthy.

Shame on them all. The Arabs were the original slavers, and they are simply continuing their traditions. UAE building workers, Filipina maids, American pilots. None are treated any differently. It is the custom of the slave owners and overseers.

Mind you, flying in an airline flown only by its nationals, that could pose a problem for many passengers once the safety records start being broken.

We all have a choice in such matters. Flying for/with Saudia? Caveat emptor.
RoyHudd is offline  
Old 10th Apr 2020, 14:54
  #55 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: shenzen
Age: 39
Posts: 279
Originally Posted by ungrateful View Post
its very funny how people are very brave behind there screens and fake names
there is an old saying : give a man a mask and he will show you his true face
i'm not gonna talk about all the benefits that the expats are getting even if they don't deserve half of it and did't dream of it in their wildest dream ever before coming to work for SAUDIA.
I'm not gonna say go back to your countries and find jobs as a pilots because if you were a good pilots you will have a job in there and stay with you families.
i'm not gonna say how unprofessional expat pilots are, they don't do any thing in the flight .. oh wait they do I'm sorry, they eat sleep taxi and play with the clock.
i'm not gonna say how a lot of expat pilots don't know how to fly and the first officers always correct them.

but let me simplify things for you:
-the whole world is going thru a very big crises
-airlines suffocating due to no income
-people are dying from this virus
-companies are closing
-schools and colleges closed
-a lot of airlines letting people go for good
and you guys crying and wiping abut your 6 months of unpaid leave, you should be thankful for not letting you go because the most important thing for the airline now is to survive
I under stand that is a bad situation for you but sometimes bad things happens forces us to priorities the things we need.
i'm pretty sure that there something in the contract about force majeure. all the world is suffering not just you

ps: I didn't write my real name because I'm as much pu$$y as you

اذا اكرمت الكريم ملكته و اذا اكرمت اللئيم تمردا
That's a reasonable post. I'd like to make a couple of points which I disagree with:
1. I think most of the guys given the 6 months unpaid leave are happy with that but people have questions. Nobody to answer.
2. The standard of all of the expats is high by international standards. This kind of criticism is clearly unfair.
3. Saudia management were aggressively recruiting expats until 2016 then aggressively jettisoning them from 2017. You cannot suggest that this is reasonable.

I do understand the Saudi Pilot's argument. It is reasonable. Why hire foreign pilots when there are unemployed pilots at home. I agree. But Saudia did and rather than living with it, Saudia have turned ruthless against their expat employees.
kungfu panda is online now  
Old 10th Apr 2020, 23:20
  #56 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: uae
Posts: 2,443
GS, This is a big joke ,right?
fatbus is offline  
Old 11th Apr 2020, 02:02
  #57 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: All at sea
Posts: 1,769
Great Saudia (handle says it all) forgot to justify forced marriage, marriage to minors, polygamy and female genital mutilation.
It is quite scary to think someone so deluded and deranged is allowed anywhere near aircraft.

EDIT: this post may not make much sense now, but it is a comment in reply to a religious and xenophobic rant by Great Saudia - which in turn provoked some home truths from other PPRuNers (all posts since deleted). Read between the lines.

Last edited by Mach E Avelli; 13th Apr 2020 at 02:55.
Mach E Avelli is offline  
Old 11th Apr 2020, 06:19
  #58 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: 66ļ NORTH
Posts: 111
atila_101 is offline  
Old 11th Apr 2020, 11:45
  #59 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Saudi Arabia
Posts: 1
RESPECT TO ALL

As a human being, I donít accept all the insults to any of my colleagues either saudis or not. It was a bad quote regarding non Saudi pilots are taking stuff from aircraft; ALL CREW AND STUFF OF SAUDIA ARE DOING THIS A BOTTLE OF WATER OR A MEAL. All the catering after flights is garbage. So , please we should not accuse our colleagues with stupid stories. I hope this crisis will be over soon. My sincere sympathy to all our colleagues who will go for 6 months unpaid leave. SAUDIA has no choice and I believe and hope it s the best for all. I hope and pray it will be over by June or July and all airlines will start flying at least at 50%. Again my full respect to all my expat colleagues. It s always a huge rich experience with in all aspects of life. WE ALL WILL BE FLYING SOO. GOD BLESS YOU SND YOUR FAMILY.
ojwings is offline  
Old 11th Apr 2020, 13:52
  #60 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: ME
Posts: 224
Thumbs up

Originally Posted by ojwings View Post
As a human being, I donít accept all the insults to any of my colleagues either saudis or not. It was a bad quote regarding non Saudi pilots are taking stuff from aircraft; ALL CREW AND STUFF OF SAUDIA ARE DOING THIS A BOTTLE OF WATER OR A MEAL. All the catering after flights is garbage. So , please we should not accuse our colleagues with stupid stories. I hope this crisis will be over soon. My sincere sympathy to all our colleagues who will go for 6 months unpaid leave. SAUDIA has no choice and I believe and hope it s the best for all. I hope and pray it will be over by June or July and all airlines will start flying at least at 50%. Again my full respect to all my expat colleagues. It s always a huge rich experience with in all aspects of life. WE ALL WILL BE FLYING SOO. GOD BLESS YOU SND YOUR FAMILY.
Thanks, Brother.
Romasik is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.