Emirates
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: UAE
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Interesting that the OP thinks 5-7 years is "long term"! If you are on the 737 now you will almost certainly end up on the 777 and depending on 777-x delays it is unlikely you will have your command in 7 years and almost certain you won't have it in 5. Also, remember there is now a 2-year bond that comes along with the command course so unless you fancy paying that off your 5-7 is realistically more like 7-9.
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: EU
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There's are limited opportunities to switch fleets both as captain and FO, supply and demand dictates. Some FOs got screwed 330-380 , hope lessons learned by all.i thought the pay was on the recruitment web page. There always seems to be an airline shutting down which benefits recruiting. Targeting U.K./ EU ? Why? Who ever is desperate enough at the time .very hard to forecast what the place EK and Dubai will look like in 5 years . More guys seem to be leaving before the money bucket is full. 777/380 Capt's leaving for bottom of the list RHS reserve. Buyer beware!
Also, I have seen some people in this thread warning others about the medical benefits? What’s wrong with them?
thanks in advance.
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Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: UK
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Its trying to weight up a new job in the UK, for life. Or trying something completely new in the desert for a number of years.
Thanks for the advice chaps. 5-7 years doesn’t sound ridiculous to me personally. I’ve seen the requirement previously for skipper DEC was over 7000 anyway.
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: On Highway block 23-250
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Ive never fancied Aer Lingus. I don’t want to the commute from where I’m from in Northern Ireland, and I certainly don’t want it after flying 8/9 hours back through the night from JFK. And I don’t want to live in Dublin, it’s simply not worth the money for what it is.
Its trying to weight up a new job in the UK, for life. Or trying something completely new in the desert for a number of years.
Thanks for the advice chaps. 5-7 years doesn’t sound ridiculous to me personally. I’ve seen the requirement previously for skipper DEC was over 7000 anyway.
I should have storage. As I’ve nothing in my email box.
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Dusty West
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Stay away, stay away, stay away..I left EK early this year and it was the best thing I ever did. My wife tells me I look and act like a completely different person. I didn't realise how sick I was until I was out of Dubai for about 6 months. That place is poison. Not just the weather, the culture too.
Do yourself a favour and don't join EK because you ARE going to regret it. Every job sucks now, deal with it.. Find yourself a half decent job in a half decent country and be happy with that. There isn't much else to strive for in this industry anymore. Dubai and EK are the worst of everything all in one place
I took a huge pay cut and downgraded the villa, car whatever, no regrets. I've never been happier. Clean air, less traffic, I have actual rights now and can vote... On my days off or standby i cut the lawn or wash the cars, go on a nature walk...Not sitting at ENOC in the heat watching some stupid indian do a bad job of it or expats drinking and eating themselves to death at the weekend brunch. Internet and sports channels or pprune aren't blocked like they were on DU and it's half the price. Much less income now but save more than I did at EK, they bleed you dry every last penny. Not to mention my HEALTH. EK would have killed me eventually, the fatigue was crushing and you can't understand it until you've experienced it
Wouldn't come back if they offered me 100 million dirhams
Do yourself a favour and don't join EK because you ARE going to regret it. Every job sucks now, deal with it.. Find yourself a half decent job in a half decent country and be happy with that. There isn't much else to strive for in this industry anymore. Dubai and EK are the worst of everything all in one place
I took a huge pay cut and downgraded the villa, car whatever, no regrets. I've never been happier. Clean air, less traffic, I have actual rights now and can vote... On my days off or standby i cut the lawn or wash the cars, go on a nature walk...Not sitting at ENOC in the heat watching some stupid indian do a bad job of it or expats drinking and eating themselves to death at the weekend brunch. Internet and sports channels or pprune aren't blocked like they were on DU and it's half the price. Much less income now but save more than I did at EK, they bleed you dry every last penny. Not to mention my HEALTH. EK would have killed me eventually, the fatigue was crushing and you can't understand it until you've experienced it
Wouldn't come back if they offered me 100 million dirhams
"A man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest" ~ Paul Simon
Good luck with your choice!
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Below the tropopause
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I'd say it again but I'd seriously consider flydubai. Money is not far of EK except the provident fund. But you get to keep your sanity, health and family.
No negative attitude other that from the ones at flyddubai that glorify EK. Untill they are a year or so in and then regret the move. No airline in the sandpit
is ideal but I'd take a little bit less money and sleep in my own bed and watch my kids grow up. The ME is all about night flying so wherever you go there is no escaping it. The UAE is the best in the ME but the idea is the same whichever company you go to. We pay you well but you will work hard for it and we want all that money to be reinvested back into the UAE. Just my 2 cents...
No negative attitude other that from the ones at flyddubai that glorify EK. Untill they are a year or so in and then regret the move. No airline in the sandpit
is ideal but I'd take a little bit less money and sleep in my own bed and watch my kids grow up. The ME is all about night flying so wherever you go there is no escaping it. The UAE is the best in the ME but the idea is the same whichever company you go to. We pay you well but you will work hard for it and we want all that money to be reinvested back into the UAE. Just my 2 cents...
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Stuttgart
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As he's close to command, I guess you mean DEC. I looked at FD, but found out they use a seniority list for rostering, with all recruits on one list (from cadets to captains) - so DECs stay as the most junior captains, and get the worst rosters for like ... forever! And that's in an airline infamous for fatigue levels as it is - No thanks!
At least at EK, the roster bid priorities are rotated (not that they make much difference).
At least at EK, the roster bid priorities are rotated (not that they make much difference).
BID System has progressed to a propaganda Instrument which shall attract people like you. Fact is that Bidding does not work and became a waste of time, but still everybody uses it in the hope that at least occasionally a outcome is there
keep dreaming of how good EK is
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: uae
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The new bid system dies not favour the user! All benefits are strictly for NCC . Quoting bid satisfaction is a giant scam . Top bid if he get ps 1 of his 5 requests ( ie the 5 th ) and he has 100 % bid satisfaction. The other 4 bud groups LOL .
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: The sand box
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To the OP
Depending on how old you are I would definitely look at EK first, there is no comparison between the two if you are looking at career longevity and financial gains if you are new to the region. FZ has had tons of pilots leave for EK and QR, including senior captains and TREs TRIs. Many FOs have left and many more are gearing up to leave. It is not because FZ is a bad place to be at, BUT, EK has much better T&Cs and works better in the long term.
At FZ you will have great co-workers to work with (pilots and cabin crew), well maintained aircraft, nice variety of flying and home on most days/ nights. But meanwhile it can’t be considered as a long term option IMO due to the lack of incentives or desire from managment to keep folks here long term. Examples would be the lack of incremental pay (Dubai is expensive), no pension plan that one could even consider a tip at your end of service, rostering is… Well "it is what it is" as FZ pilots would tell you, and no one to complain to (be careful if you do do complain because this is the ME and people do hold grudges here!), A-B deadhead night flights (2 sets of pilots on 1 long deep night turn around flight in economy to work 12-15 hour all nighters and arrive at noon the next day, somehow sitting in an economy seat or even the more uncomfortable business seats is considered adequate rest here as if you are sitting at home). Also, technically, the company policy forbids deadheading crew from using biz class headsets while deadheading and want you bring your own! Just pointing this out to illustrate the mindset at FZ!. Also, as a DEC you will enjoy being bottom of the list captain for years! 7 year plus captains here can’t get one week of summer off.
At EK you will be working for a legacy airline, you will make slightly more money, proper crew rest areas/bunks on long flights, you will see the world, 12% match for your provident fund (you will have 4 times bigger pension leaving EK than you would at FZ for the same amount of time served), you will be just as tired, much MUCH better travel benefits as you are not considered a second class employee on EK flights, much better medical benefits (FZ has downgraded their health insurance provider to the much cheaper for them and more expensive to employees option).
Not to say that FZ is a bad option, far from it as you could do definitely do worst but for a newcomer EK is the better option. Big portion of the guys/gals who stick it out at FZ plan to get a quick command followed by a couple of thousand hours in the left seat then bugger off to bigger and better things or go home. Others (minority) feel like they are too old/lazy to make a move or don't want to go back to the right seat.
Hope this helps.
Depending on how old you are I would definitely look at EK first, there is no comparison between the two if you are looking at career longevity and financial gains if you are new to the region. FZ has had tons of pilots leave for EK and QR, including senior captains and TREs TRIs. Many FOs have left and many more are gearing up to leave. It is not because FZ is a bad place to be at, BUT, EK has much better T&Cs and works better in the long term.
At FZ you will have great co-workers to work with (pilots and cabin crew), well maintained aircraft, nice variety of flying and home on most days/ nights. But meanwhile it can’t be considered as a long term option IMO due to the lack of incentives or desire from managment to keep folks here long term. Examples would be the lack of incremental pay (Dubai is expensive), no pension plan that one could even consider a tip at your end of service, rostering is… Well "it is what it is" as FZ pilots would tell you, and no one to complain to (be careful if you do do complain because this is the ME and people do hold grudges here!), A-B deadhead night flights (2 sets of pilots on 1 long deep night turn around flight in economy to work 12-15 hour all nighters and arrive at noon the next day, somehow sitting in an economy seat or even the more uncomfortable business seats is considered adequate rest here as if you are sitting at home). Also, technically, the company policy forbids deadheading crew from using biz class headsets while deadheading and want you bring your own! Just pointing this out to illustrate the mindset at FZ!. Also, as a DEC you will enjoy being bottom of the list captain for years! 7 year plus captains here can’t get one week of summer off.
At EK you will be working for a legacy airline, you will make slightly more money, proper crew rest areas/bunks on long flights, you will see the world, 12% match for your provident fund (you will have 4 times bigger pension leaving EK than you would at FZ for the same amount of time served), you will be just as tired, much MUCH better travel benefits as you are not considered a second class employee on EK flights, much better medical benefits (FZ has downgraded their health insurance provider to the much cheaper for them and more expensive to employees option).
Not to say that FZ is a bad option, far from it as you could do definitely do worst but for a newcomer EK is the better option. Big portion of the guys/gals who stick it out at FZ plan to get a quick command followed by a couple of thousand hours in the left seat then bugger off to bigger and better things or go home. Others (minority) feel like they are too old/lazy to make a move or don't want to go back to the right seat.
Hope this helps.
Last edited by DH8_driver; 11th Dec 2019 at 00:30.
Join Date: Jun 2018
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I say again....
.... stay away!!! EK will kill you health.
I have read something about that you will see the world, hahahaha. Flying 14 hours from DXB to IAH, departing 3 am in the morning, then 24 hrs rest on the paper which does not include passing immigration and transport to the hotel and a pickup about 2,5 hrs before departure time. You might be lucky to get proper rest for your return flight.
Flying to China: 2 men over Himalaya, departures early in the morning, 8+ hrs through the night back to Dubai.
You will see the world, yes, in ****ty hotels close to the airport or far away from the city center, except JFK.
First of all pass the assessment and then you can think about joining. Sign a 5 year bond, another 2 year bond for your upgrade. Upgrade 7+ years, which is still reasonable for a big carrier.
Have seen it, luckily left early enough and enjoy my normal life back in Europe!!!
I have read something about that you will see the world, hahahaha. Flying 14 hours from DXB to IAH, departing 3 am in the morning, then 24 hrs rest on the paper which does not include passing immigration and transport to the hotel and a pickup about 2,5 hrs before departure time. You might be lucky to get proper rest for your return flight.
Flying to China: 2 men over Himalaya, departures early in the morning, 8+ hrs through the night back to Dubai.
You will see the world, yes, in ****ty hotels close to the airport or far away from the city center, except JFK.
First of all pass the assessment and then you can think about joining. Sign a 5 year bond, another 2 year bond for your upgrade. Upgrade 7+ years, which is still reasonable for a big carrier.
Have seen it, luckily left early enough and enjoy my normal life back in Europe!!!
Join Date: May 2016
Location: The EU
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Out of interest, do EK generally give you 24 hours rest down route? With certain destinations (BKK and LHR, for example), there are arrival and departure pairs 15-16 hours apart. Do you tend to do the return flight that corresponds to your outbound (24-26 hours later) or do they mix it up in a way that sees you on minimum rest down route?
Join Date: Dec 2019
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Has anyone gotten so fed up that they left before the 5 year bond ended? And then didn’t pay back the owned amount? Just curious what would happen.
Last edited by 2Reverse; 19th Dec 2019 at 11:05.
Join Date: Dec 2019
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Ek, UAE and Dubai have long memories if you run away without paying!
Years ago someone left without paying off some loans. After working for a couple of companies in other parts of the world he happened to come back to Dubai, he got to immigration where he was stopped then promptly marched off to a cell until he paid up what he owed!
No one is sympathetic here!
Years ago someone left without paying off some loans. After working for a couple of companies in other parts of the world he happened to come back to Dubai, he got to immigration where he was stopped then promptly marched off to a cell until he paid up what he owed!
No one is sympathetic here!
And for those of you out there that imagine that we go to all these lovely places and have lots of time off down route then stop, take a deep breath and take off the rose coloured glasses!
We do three man Boston flights on the 777 because its legal ....just - the max FDP = Scheduled flight time plus the report time ie any delay = discretion!! Yes 3 pilots, 13hour 30minute flight Dubai to Boston, 24 hours off and then a 12hour 15 minute return!
Most layovers are 24 hours, usually at an airport hotel.
Between some flights I have done 18 hours in Dubai, so not even 24 hours at home!
Don't expect to get anything you bid for on your rosters, you might be lucky but generally you will not get what you want! It used to be a system where you could bid for a place or country you wanted to go to and you has a good chance of getting it! Since the system changed a couple of years ago, this ability to bid is still there but because of the way EK is using the system, our preferences are the lowest priority so you rarely get what you want!! In the past more priority was given to our preferences, now the system just gives you what it wants!
We have no support from management on our rosters, they can't help even if they wanted to (which they don't!). Flight ops ie the managers in charge of the pilots (Chief pilot , SVP, DSVP), have NO input into rosters, its run by a different department - Network Control and they don't give a damn about flight ops / pilots inputs and Flt ops have no influence or authority on them! So even if you need your flights changed you will get little or no help!
Worry less about if the wife can work, where will I live etc, worry more about can I survive the rosters, flying lots, going to places I don't bid for, getting frustrated at work, spending little time at home and knowing that nothing is going to fundamentally change no matter how long I stay at Emirates!
Happy Christmas one and all
We do three man Boston flights on the 777 because its legal ....just - the max FDP = Scheduled flight time plus the report time ie any delay = discretion!! Yes 3 pilots, 13hour 30minute flight Dubai to Boston, 24 hours off and then a 12hour 15 minute return!
Most layovers are 24 hours, usually at an airport hotel.
Between some flights I have done 18 hours in Dubai, so not even 24 hours at home!
Don't expect to get anything you bid for on your rosters, you might be lucky but generally you will not get what you want! It used to be a system where you could bid for a place or country you wanted to go to and you has a good chance of getting it! Since the system changed a couple of years ago, this ability to bid is still there but because of the way EK is using the system, our preferences are the lowest priority so you rarely get what you want!! In the past more priority was given to our preferences, now the system just gives you what it wants!
We have no support from management on our rosters, they can't help even if they wanted to (which they don't!). Flight ops ie the managers in charge of the pilots (Chief pilot , SVP, DSVP), have NO input into rosters, its run by a different department - Network Control and they don't give a damn about flight ops / pilots inputs and Flt ops have no influence or authority on them! So even if you need your flights changed you will get little or no help!
Worry less about if the wife can work, where will I live etc, worry more about can I survive the rosters, flying lots, going to places I don't bid for, getting frustrated at work, spending little time at home and knowing that nothing is going to fundamentally change no matter how long I stay at Emirates!
Happy Christmas one and all