Emirates Payrise
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Dubai
Posts: 322
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"back on track in 2-3 years"? Not likely. Until EK can reduce its 380 fleet to a size that can at least break even, and until newer aircraft can make routes profitable again, EK is in dire straights. Don't expect to see real profit again for nearly a decade until the 380 fleet gets back to something like 40 aircraft.
The only reason EK has kept its head above water for the past few years is because they've made huge amounts of money from buying big fleets of aircraft at bargain basement prices, and on-selling individual airframes to leasing companies for a hefty profit...my estimate..around a billion dollars a year from on selling airframes to leasing companies. That gig is all but finished, at least for the 380, given the lack of any residual value for that aircraft at the end of a lease. Who wants a second hand A380? Without the subsidies provided by that scheme, the 380 has to stand on its own. Hence one of the main reasons for EK's massive drop in profits over the past year or two.
The only reason EK has kept its head above water for the past few years is because they've made huge amounts of money from buying big fleets of aircraft at bargain basement prices, and on-selling individual airframes to leasing companies for a hefty profit...my estimate..around a billion dollars a year from on selling airframes to leasing companies. That gig is all but finished, at least for the 380, given the lack of any residual value for that aircraft at the end of a lease. Who wants a second hand A380? Without the subsidies provided by that scheme, the 380 has to stand on its own. Hence one of the main reasons for EK's massive drop in profits over the past year or two.
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Dubai
Posts: 212
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What the ‘be happy it’s a decent job’ young gun crowd fail to grasp is that in a very quick 10 years - you will be down 30-40% yet fully vested in DXB due kids in school, possible wife career - with the prospect of having to start again somewhere else in order to work for employer that actually keeps up. All while our employer has made billions over the last ten years.
Comparing US legacies to here is ascinine - you have a Union, we have a jail cell.
Comparing US legacies to here is ascinine - you have a Union, we have a jail cell.
Jail cell? Have you been locked up for something??
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Bonvoy Marriott
Posts: 408
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I do agree with you. BUT: in a “free” country with a unionised workforce you could actually demand to “change the menu”. If you work for EK however, it is Shish Tawook every effin day of the rest of your career.
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: MIDDLE EAST
Posts: 1,035
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Saul
Let's see how BA pilots get on over the next few months with their 'demand'.
UK based and with an apparently strong union, this benchmark airline has seen it's own T&C's eroded over the years. If you'd asked one of the senior pilots 10 years ago that in a decades time he'd be without a final salary pension and no bidline system, he'd have laughed in your face.
Times are forever changing and I wish the pilots well in their fight to preserve a fair wage. Sadly, there will be little sympathy for those pilots. How can the average Joe show empathy to a pilot strike, with senior Captains already earning 200K a year according to the Daily Mail? Difficult, when he's on 50K (almost double national average still!) and his family are stuck in a crowded terminal not going anywhere. Of course, the irony of then paying every other week the best part of 100 quid to watch his premiership team is lost on him, given the players are also pulling in two hundred grand....a week!
Which boils down to one simple thing. Supply and demand. Isn't that what this conversation is really all about?
Harry
Let's see how BA pilots get on over the next few months with their 'demand'.
UK based and with an apparently strong union, this benchmark airline has seen it's own T&C's eroded over the years. If you'd asked one of the senior pilots 10 years ago that in a decades time he'd be without a final salary pension and no bidline system, he'd have laughed in your face.
Times are forever changing and I wish the pilots well in their fight to preserve a fair wage. Sadly, there will be little sympathy for those pilots. How can the average Joe show empathy to a pilot strike, with senior Captains already earning 200K a year according to the Daily Mail? Difficult, when he's on 50K (almost double national average still!) and his family are stuck in a crowded terminal not going anywhere. Of course, the irony of then paying every other week the best part of 100 quid to watch his premiership team is lost on him, given the players are also pulling in two hundred grand....a week!
Which boils down to one simple thing. Supply and demand. Isn't that what this conversation is really all about?
Harry
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Bonvoy Marriott
Posts: 408
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
At least they have a union and a legal system where one is allowed to hold industrial action. If you join EK you have very little rights. You know that when you join. No union that will help you if you have an incident. I really cannot understand why in this day and age you will join/stay the likes of EK or QR.
the final pension scheme is not relevant here. That also depends on life expectancy and demographics. Or are you of the opinion to putt the burden on the younger generations? I do not know the situation in BA but in other companies it was not sustainable.
the final pension scheme is not relevant here. That also depends on life expectancy and demographics. Or are you of the opinion to putt the burden on the younger generations? I do not know the situation in BA but in other companies it was not sustainable.
Pensions - Locals get final salary pension scheme and early retirement but this is generally not talked about - expats don't!
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: uae
Posts: 2,777
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Already worried about total pension payouts , it was 15 years now extended to 20 for the 75% of salary. Wait to see the current court case in the U.K. And the amount of money payed out. Dubai debt getting bigger and bigger.
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: usa
Posts: 1,005
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bollocks. Wife with a career, kids' school 90% covered, getting paid an unimproved but still substantial EK salary while building the hours needed for when he decides to leave later.. and you think that's a bad thing? What planet are you on?
Jail cell? Have you been locked up for something??
Jail cell? Have you been locked up for something??
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Desert
Posts: 363
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Saul
Let's see how BA pilots get on over the next few months with their 'demand'.
UK based and with an apparently strong union, this benchmark airline has seen it's own T&C's eroded over the years. If you'd asked one of the senior pilots 10 years ago that in a decades time he'd be without a final salary pension and no bidline system, he'd have laughed in your face.
Times are forever changing and I wish the pilots well in their fight to preserve a fair wage. Sadly, there will be little sympathy for those pilots. How can the average Joe show empathy to a pilot strike, with senior Captains already earning 200K a year according to the Daily Mail? Difficult, when he's on 50K (almost double national average still!) and his family are stuck in a crowded terminal not going anywhere. Of course, the irony of then paying every other week the best part of 100 quid to watch his premiership team is lost on him, given the players are also pulling in two hundred grand....a week!
Which boils down to one simple thing. Supply and demand. Isn't that what this conversation is really all about?
Harry
Let's see how BA pilots get on over the next few months with their 'demand'.
UK based and with an apparently strong union, this benchmark airline has seen it's own T&C's eroded over the years. If you'd asked one of the senior pilots 10 years ago that in a decades time he'd be without a final salary pension and no bidline system, he'd have laughed in your face.
Times are forever changing and I wish the pilots well in their fight to preserve a fair wage. Sadly, there will be little sympathy for those pilots. How can the average Joe show empathy to a pilot strike, with senior Captains already earning 200K a year according to the Daily Mail? Difficult, when he's on 50K (almost double national average still!) and his family are stuck in a crowded terminal not going anywhere. Of course, the irony of then paying every other week the best part of 100 quid to watch his premiership team is lost on him, given the players are also pulling in two hundred grand....a week!
Which boils down to one simple thing. Supply and demand. Isn't that what this conversation is really all about?
Harry
It all comes down to what we are worth and it is definitely what we are currently paid. Pilots at supposedly "inferior" airlines are engaging in Job Actions this summer for better T&Cs and what are we doing, defending the company and telling everyone it is not that bad or telling ourselves that. We are a joke. What International pilot makes less than us? I know there are some but not many. It is time to get paid what we are worth instead of this race to the Bottom mentality. Even Ryanair is flexing some of their muscle in the weeks to come. Not us.
On a side note it is good to have you back Harry. I'm glad you didn't go to Easy Jet even though you are probably regretting that decision now.
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Doctor's waiting room
Posts: 769
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Dubai
Posts: 212
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What it's really about is attempting to further your own cause by convincing enough other pilots not to join that things will somehow improve for you. Not only has the last decade or more clearly demonstrated that this in the realms of fantasy but you're trying to convince others that they are incapable of managing their finances, kids' school provision, wife's career path, etc - ie Life. That's either arrogance talking or you're applying your own poor experience to everyone else's capabilities. What you don't or won't understand is that guys don't leave because whatever they'd be going to is not as good as what they have at EK. When the overall balance tips, then they leave. Obviously your situation is better at EK because you haven't left.
Berating people for thinking like you did and still do is hypocritical. Or are you one of these guys who says it only went downhill after you joined?
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Dubai
Age: 54
Posts: 328
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
On your point about Unions though... even if they were legal in the UAE there is no way the pilots at Emirates would fight for better pay and conditions let alone to have the airline just honour their contract. They are not that kind of pilots.
As you wrote most came here and received better pay and they get to fly a Widebody. What a deal, there is no way they are going to rock the boat and that is why we are paid the way we are and treated like dogs.
This is such an awful company but in their race to bottom they have attracted and hired pilots that think this is a good deal. Hence our condition. Don't expect anything good to come anytime soon.
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Bonvoy Marriott
Posts: 408
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Guys join EK for the money and the relatively fast upgrade. Once they are close to the upgrade they do not want to give it up and once they are in the left seat they only want to stay in the left seat. That leaves, in Europe at least, only second tier companies to go to like Norwegian or Ryanair etc. if you are in your mid thirties just swallow your pride and try to join a “career” airline on the bottom of the list. I did that and I believe I made the right choice although I have had my doubts. My mates in EK are always complaining but don’t want to give up the nett take home pay or their commands. In a way we as pilots are our own worst enemies...
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: usa
Posts: 1,005
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
!
VERY consistent!
(but thanks for taking the time and effort - to cleanse your hit nerve- gives me a chuckle ��)
No, I can see the point you thought you were trying to make but it has no substance beyond melodramatic sensation. We all know unions are illegal in UAE. You know it - so why haven't you left? If you didn't know it before you joined you should've done a modicum of homework.
What it's really about is attempting to further your own cause by convincing enough other pilots not to join that things will somehow improve for you. Not only has the last decade or more clearly demonstrated that this in the realms of fantasy but you're trying to convince others that they are incapable of managing their finances, kids' school provision, wife's career path, etc - ie Life. That's either arrogance talking or you're applying your own poor experience to everyone else's capabilities. What you don't or won't understand is that guys don't leave because whatever they'd be going to is not as good as what they have at EK. When the overall balance tips, then they leave. Obviously your situation is better at EK because you haven't left.
Berating people for thinking like you did and still do is hypocritical. Or are you one of these guys who says it only went downhill after you joined?
What it's really about is attempting to further your own cause by convincing enough other pilots not to join that things will somehow improve for you. Not only has the last decade or more clearly demonstrated that this in the realms of fantasy but you're trying to convince others that they are incapable of managing their finances, kids' school provision, wife's career path, etc - ie Life. That's either arrogance talking or you're applying your own poor experience to everyone else's capabilities. What you don't or won't understand is that guys don't leave because whatever they'd be going to is not as good as what they have at EK. When the overall balance tips, then they leave. Obviously your situation is better at EK because you haven't left.
Berating people for thinking like you did and still do is hypocritical. Or are you one of these guys who says it only went downhill after you joined?
(but thanks for taking the time and effort - to cleanse your hit nerve- gives me a chuckle ��)
