Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Worldwide > Middle East
Reload this Page >

EK resignations on the up again...

Middle East Many expats still flying in Knoteetingham. Regional issues can be discussed here.

EK resignations on the up again...

Old 12th Sep 2018, 16:26
  #101 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 48
I am sure that there are bad eggs in every airline, however, here, one can have an excellent record in every regard for years and then one day, a single, less-than-great performance in a simulator can be very damaging to career progression. There does appear to be a sweeping trend at the present time of written warnings, demotions and sackings that wouldn't carry weight in the civilised world. It is very much testing now, training later. There are a multitude of scandalous disciplinaries that are irrelevant to performance and attitude also. This company are not taking their share of responsibility or accountability whatsoever. To be clear, i am not criticising trainers in this post. I am stating that the management attitude and company responses are not conducive to a safe or progressive airline.
ClassCbird is offline  
Old 19th Sep 2018, 13:13
  #102 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Germany
Posts: 17
That is what I am thinking having a Master degree in psychology. They just put a coat of ďmodernessĒ on the old structures. But in the end nothing has changed! If there is imminent pressure on individuals to perform it is contra productive to the outcome. Pressure increases performance only to a certain degree depending a bit as well on the so called personal traits. One can be very smart and has got fantastic abilities but within the ďwrongĒ environment such a person cannot ďdeliverĒ or grow. The goal of training should be - if this person fits into the company selectional pattern (what they obviously did!) - that this person is trainable with the right methods, trainers and training program. Thatís a growth structure which establish growth mindsets! In my personal opinion and from a professional perspective as well punishing somebody by degrading or terminating is the worst thing you can do as company. Imagine .. somebody got a bad phase and you help this individual with mercy, kindness, by leading the individual to overcome the problem. Tha is the difference between being a boss or a real leader.. what would it be like ? This person would be in most cases be more than happy, dedicates and loyal to the company. But maybe the company is just looking for mercenaries. Or maybe some Aussies who think being a Cpt at EK is a big thing .. sorry Aussies for that ! u know which guys I am talking about !
Sorry for mistakes .. just typing on my phone.

Last edited by flyster; 19th Sep 2018 at 13:33.
flyster is offline  
Old 19th Sep 2018, 14:43
  #103 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Up north
Posts: 1,588
Originally Posted by ClassCbird View Post
I am sure that there are bad eggs in every airline, however, here, one can have an excellent record in every regard for years and then one day, a single, less-than-great performance in a simulator can be very damaging to career progression. There does appear to be a sweeping trend at the present time of written warnings, demotions and sackings that wouldn't carry weight in the civilised world. It is very much testing now, training later. There are a multitude of scandalous disciplinaries that are irrelevant to performance and attitude also. This company are not taking their share of responsibility or accountability whatsoever. To be clear, i am not criticising trainers in this post. I am stating that the management attitude and company responses are not conducive to a safe or progressive airline.
Shiny-jet-syndrome people still flocking to go to EK, pay attention. Toxic.

CP
CaptainProp is offline  
Old 9th Oct 2018, 00:10
  #104 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Somewhere near an Airport
Age: 38
Posts: 319
Originally Posted by RK Blue sky View Post
Does the increase in pilots leaving EK surprise anyone? Who is going to stay at this dump with so many better options available? Itís not like we canít more money and work less hours in a civilized country.

what are are those options ?
Flyboy_SG is offline  
Old 9th Oct 2018, 05:05
  #105 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Nowhere
Posts: 68
Options

[QUOTE=Flyboy_SG;10269222]



what are are those options ?

How far is your head in the sand? Are you really that blind?
The US is hiring like crazy and if you donít have a US Passport get a Green Card immediately. The State Dept are handing them out like candy. The last thing the government wants is parked airplanes.
China is paying $27,000 a month and needs twice as many pilots as the US does.
Korean Ethiopian and Turkey are still expanding but get to the US now. Youíll be a captain in under 3 yrs and be making close to $300,000 with all the extras. It goes without saying youíll work far less than you will in the sand.
Are you really unaware of your options Flyboy? I hope youíre aware of your options when you are crossing the Atlantic and I hope you are not in denial about how good things are here. Look at your options and get out.
RK Blue sky is offline  
Old 9th Oct 2018, 08:12
  #106 (permalink)  
Aso
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Belgium
Posts: 88
Ethiopian and Turkey
mmm Turkey? Really? With a salary that went down about 25% last month on the Lira exchange?
Aso is offline  
Old 9th Oct 2018, 13:17
  #107 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Nowhere
Posts: 68
Originally Posted by Aso View Post
mmm Turkey? Really? With a salary that went down about 25% last month on the Lira exchange?
You wanted options I gave you options. Now youíre being obstinate.
With things falling apart here both with the airline and the city youíre going to stay? There are options
RK Blue sky is offline  
Old 9th Oct 2018, 15:37
  #108 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: SZR
Posts: 54
Come on blue sky. Turkey? REALLY?
seven3seven is offline  
Old 9th Oct 2018, 18:03
  #109 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: dubai
Posts: 21
This last ULR we were 4 crew, plus 4 crew already there, we had a chat with. This is the final count out of 8 people:
One captain quitting altogether before 60.
Another captain going home to do local flying, resigns this week.
One FO about to upgrade, going to Europe instead.
Another FO did not pass the upgrade and is finding his way out.

So about 50% bye bye ratio in this particular trip.
Coincidence?
This may get interesting in the coming months.
desert witch is offline  
Old 10th Oct 2018, 01:40
  #110 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Nowhere
Posts: 68
Originally Posted by seven3seven View Post
Come on blue sky. Turkey? REALLY?

At this point Rwanda Air is probably better than EK. No other employer is this vindictive to its pilots for the amount of money we have at the end of the month.
Without knowing definitely I would lay money on the line that Turkish doesnít have the resignation rate that Emirates has. That says something but itís probably more of a reflection on us.
RK Blue sky is offline  
Old 10th Oct 2018, 05:59
  #111 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: usa
Posts: 1,005
[QUOTE=RK Blue sky;10269299]
Originally Posted by Flyboy_SG View Post



what are are those options ?

How far is your head in the sand? Are you really that blind?
The US is hiring like crazy and if you donít have a US Passport get a Green Card immediately. The State Dept are handing them out like candy. The last thing the government wants is parked airplanes.
China is paying $27,000 a month and needs twice as many pilots as the US does.
Korean Ethiopian and Turkey are still expanding but get to the US now. Youíll be a captain in under 3 yrs and be making close to $300,000 with all the extras. It goes without saying youíll work far less than you will in the sand.
Are you really unaware of your options Flyboy? I hope youíre aware of your options when you are crossing the Atlantic and I hope you are not in denial about how good things are here. Look at your options and get out.
ďThe State Dept are banding them out like candy....Ē

Now thatís funny
fliion is offline  
Old 11th Oct 2018, 09:17
  #112 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 1998
Location: A long way from home with lots more sand.
Age: 50
Posts: 417
RK: A Captain in under 3 years AND 300k. I was unaware that the US Legacy Carriers were offering <3yrs command on a wide body to new hires (an MD Captain does not make 300k). Then again so were my friends who are F/O now at Delta and United. I doubt any Regional in the US pays any pilot anywhere near that amount. As for Green Cards handed out like candy-can you please share what you are on as I am sure everyone could do with being happier. Turkish: now you are really living in LaLa Land considering the currency and political situation. KAL: ask the guys coming back to EK from there and look at current KAL Rosters. Please note: I am not saying that things could not be improved here especially relating to work/life balance, however your arguement has more holes than Dr Reasons Cheese.
clear to land is offline  
Old 11th Oct 2018, 13:13
  #113 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Nowhere
Posts: 68
As I said earlier Turkish is less than ideal but certainly better than EK. How much currency have we lost in Dubai with the VAT and runaway inflation? Probably less than Turkish but a whole lot more than we lost than last year.
I am on the 777 but actively trying to get on with Delta. Iím probably the last American standing who doesnít want to stay.
Delta has 9 month captains and the bottom pay that I can make out is around $250 an hour. With a 80 hour month thatís $240,000 a year plus the profit share, 401k contribution. The last 3 years FOs have received about $150,000 in profit share. I kjow we get that here too but we do it for many many more hours through all hours of the night and day to 6 continents. Even widebody FOs are north of $250,000 a year for 80 hrs a month.
As I said the US government does not want any parked airplanes or stunted growth so Green Cards are being passed out Willy Nilly. Apply if youíre interested. It canít hurt.
How many KAL pilots have come here? I havenít heard of any but you probably know more people. I know some pilots have left KAL to go to other places but not here. Who chooses EK?
If you werenít stuck here and could leave would you leave?
RK Blue sky is offline  
Old 11th Oct 2018, 13:52
  #114 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 2,176
[QUOTE=RK Blue sky;10271261]As I said the US government does not want any parked airplanes or stunted growth so Green Cards are being passed out Willy Nilly.[QUOTE]

RK,

Since this conversation is about pilots, I assume you're referring to green cards being issued by a concerned government to non-US pilots who come here because the US is short of pilots at the legacy level ?

Would you happen to have any documented sources for that ?

I think it's safe to say that the LAST thing the likes of DL, AA, UA, SW, FedEx or UPS have to worry about is parked airplanes or stunted growth due to lack of pilots. But I can always be wrong which is why specific documentation interests me.

If the Imperial Federal Government is passing out green cards as you describe, I'd love to see the documentation related to pilots. They may be granting legal entry to foreign nationals in a number of fields lacking sufficient US citizens but I don't get the impression legacy-eligible pilots are in that category in large, if any, numbers.

US carrier have always hired green card holders.
bafanguy is offline  
Old 12th Oct 2018, 02:52
  #115 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Somewhere near an Airport
Age: 38
Posts: 319
[QUOTE=RK Blue sky;10269299]
Originally Posted by Flyboy_SG View Post



what are are those options ?

How far is your head in the sand? Are you really that blind?
The US is hiring like crazy and if you donít have a US Passport get a Green Card immediately. The State Dept are handing them out like candy. The last thing the government wants is parked airplanes.


China is paying $27,000 a month and needs twice as many pilots as the US does.
Korean Ethiopian and Turkey are still expanding but get to the US now. Youíll be a captain in under 3 yrs and be making close to $300,000 with all the extras. It goes without saying youíll work far less than you will in the sand.
Are you really unaware of your options Flyboy? I hope youíre aware of your options when you are crossing the Atlantic and I hope you are not in denial about how good things are here. Look at your options and get out.

That was a straight forward question RK. I very well know what my options are.

I agree partially with US and china. Who is handing over green cards like crazy ?? Walmart? I would buy one right away. Name an airline that even sponsors a visa.

Korean, No upgrade crappy work culture. Turkish, peanut salary with uncertainty in the region. And Ethiopian....don't ask me about it.



There are some sort of issues everywhere.

Are you even an Airline pilot or one of those office guys who compare long haul flying to chair warming jobs ?
Flyboy_SG is offline  
Old 12th Oct 2018, 11:06
  #116 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Nowhere as nice as you are
Posts: 9
Originally Posted by Yournamehere View Post
Flyboy there is a fairly comprehensive list of the US airlines that are hiring foreigners on visas in this thread;
And by "foreigners" you forgot to say only Australians as the title of that thread suggests.
JA8957 is offline  
Old 12th Oct 2018, 11:30
  #117 (permalink)  
Aso
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Belgium
Posts: 88
Flyboy there is a fairly comprehensive list of the US airlines that are hiring foreigners on visas in this thread;
Australians are foreigners but not all foreigners are Australians.

There is no Visa for foreigners but for Australians only. Until the guy with the Orange wig believes that there needs to be a wall between the US and Australia too or wishes to piss them off for any other personal reason
Aso is offline  
Old 13th Oct 2018, 00:17
  #118 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: uae
Posts: 2,347
There is only one problem with the American carriers!
fatbus is offline  
Old 13th Oct 2018, 11:18
  #119 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 2,176
Originally Posted by fatbus View Post
There is only one problem with the American carriers!
Only "one" ?
bafanguy is offline  
Old 14th Oct 2018, 05:46
  #120 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Space
Posts: 61
I see a lot of complaints about the 777 flight crews. What about the 380 rosters and crews, are they happy at EK?
a320-- is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.