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final decision to choose EK/QR

Middle East Many expats still flying in Knoteetingham. Regional issues can be discussed here.

final decision to choose EK/QR

Old 5th Jul 2018, 11:30
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Formerly resident of Knoteatingham
Posts: 836
The fatigue, rosters and degraded quality of life are just as bad in the left seat as the right.
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Old 5th Jul 2018, 16:46
  #22 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: istanbul
Posts: 15
How is the block off system works in EK? For instance, if you have 7 days leave then how many off days you can take to the beginning or end of leave. I know the QR from my friends but I am not sure for EK 777. If someone could send me a typical 777 roster with/without leave. it would be great.
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Old 6th Jul 2018, 04:53
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Dubai
Posts: 67
You get one day off before and one after leave
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Old 6th Jul 2018, 06:15
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: OMDB
Posts: 141
Actually, at EK, you arenít even guaranteed one day off before leave, only after leave, (as flight deck, c/c and office workers have different rules!)
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Old 6th Jul 2018, 06:52
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Doha
Posts: 216


Something to consider when coming to the region: Bond at EK is 5 years and 7 years for 100% Provident vs 3 & 5 respectively at QR. big difference there if you donít like or canít hack it in the desert.

Having said that, if you accepted EKs offer then you better go ahead and show up. IMHO If you really wanted QR you should have waited.

OW

Last edited by FlyingOW; 7th Jan 2021 at 20:25.
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Old 6th Jul 2018, 07:08
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: In the back of a bus
Posts: 999
EK leave

Another favorite... the "manual insertion" turnaround in between your leave and a block of days off... if you even get a block.

Or the ever used ULR flight after leave which means unless you're going somewhere nearby you need to be acclimatised for your duty and that means being back at Base a certain time before duty which eats into those "days off" because they're used as a way to make you legal... shifty rostering and shouldn't happen but they bank on people not complaining about it.

It is a little different between CC and FD but I have seen this on both kinds of rosters and it can really fk with your leave plans especially if your leave is a week or less... ergo... take as long blocks as you can or they will screw you with a late finish before and a ULR after...
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Old 16th Apr 2019, 13:19
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: India
Posts: 6
Hi,
I got an option between QR B787 and EK A380, currently 2000 hrs on B737, read all the discussions and posts. Suggestions please on this. How the money in QR is more? Advice and suggestions will be really appreciate.
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Old 16th Apr 2019, 19:50
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: DUS
Posts: 65
380 with 737 rating? What happened to their rule requiring already some hours on fly by wire aircraft?
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Old 17th Apr 2019, 18:37
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: UAE
Posts: 137
Originally Posted by Zomboeing View Post
Hi,
I got an option between QR B787 and EK A380, currently 2000 hrs on B737, read all the discussions and posts. Suggestions please on this. How the money in QR is more? Advice and suggestions will be really appreciate.
Not too much daylight between the two choices. At the end of the day Dubai is a much more tolerable city to live in for the medium to long term. 787 is a better type rating to have. Good luck with your choice.
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Old 17th Apr 2019, 21:52
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Europe
Posts: 280
Was in QR a long while ago(Skipper Widebody). STAY away. I do not believe that this guys are ever able to change. Alone that command comes earlier and the "package" is a bit better(except housing) speakes a clear language. They need pilots because they are loosing them. Always have, even 20 years ago. Back then most just "jumped ship" means they never came back from leave, disappeared during days off or during a turnaround with layover out of Doha. And this guys had very valid reasons to do so.

Now, the advantages of EK have been already mentioned and I fully agree here. Doha is a SH, Dubai, well, after one week I always was happy to leave as well. Both places have that "middle eastern charme" that you either like or...NOT. But clearly Dubai is the better choice. It is actually like choosing the painless shot in the head(Dubai) or getting that knife very slooooowly and gently pushed in your brain(Doha).

Time to upgrade speaks a very clear language as well. I you do not know what I mean let me explain - companies like Ryanair, Qatar offer VERY fast command upgrade. What you think why? Because they like you and want to see you with more money and that fantastic 4 stripe with all the nice responsibility for everything and, all considered, not that much money for that responsibility? Or is it because they expand AND loose pilots every month?
Then there are carriers with a longer wait time for command - because they have enough people(well, at least more then the crappier carriers) so they can afford to have experienced skippers(not 3000 hour guys) on the left and having a very close look for the "new generation" growing to experience on the right hand seat.

IMHO deciding to middle east is ALWAYS a long term decission - you cannot just go there for 3 years. You have to be in for at least 10 years or till one of the magic to buckets are full(you know, either the one with the money inside or the one with the s..t).

If it has to be the middle east - go EK. Or Flydubai(even the night flying will kill you eventually, but this will be the case on Longhaul as well - tried it, did not like it).
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Old 17th Apr 2019, 23:00
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Canada
Posts: 48
If you come to EK with only Boeing time and consequently get put on the 777, are you SOL with regards to eventually switching to the 380 (or 330/350 down the line) when an opening comes up?
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Old 18th Apr 2019, 06:50
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Domaine de la Romanee-Conti
Posts: 1,680
Accommodation in QR was, and sounds like it still is, a MAJOR issue

EK the policy is, married gets a villa and single gets an apartment. QR the policy is, captain gets a villa and FO gets an apartment.

Total luck of the draw, there are some good ones, but if you get put into one of the bad ones, you will be stuck there and it will be very difficult to escape

Ultimately that was the factor that drove me to walk away from the place after 3 years, with a command upgrade not too far away, because it was either that or lose the wife & family, she had just had enough of the appalling boring lifestyle and the noisy smelly cramped third-world-quality roach pit of an apartment we were living in
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Old 18th Apr 2019, 09:49
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: India
Posts: 6
Thank you for the replies!
I will write down my observations as below, please give feedback on the same:
1. Lifestyle is better in DXB for sure.
2. Accomodation is better in DXB, choice of buying property in DXB exists.
3. Training is hard in EK, more pressure in that department.
4. Concerned about shifting from Boeing to Airbus380 in terms of amount of effort required.
5. Rosters to be compared in terms of fatigue and jet lag and number of hours.
6. Progression to be considered.
7. I think QR will be same aircraft till command, EK might change the fleet depending on situation.
8. I have read QR is more money but my research doesnít prove it, itís a better basic salary at EK and if you fly 80 hours at both places, itís same money.
9. I have been advised B787 is the future with 777x coming in.
10. I want my professional life to be sorted in terms of flying, fatigue, progression, training, sim checks and am planning to give 10 years in ME aleast.
11. Luke SkyToddler QR gives option to change accommodation if you do not like where you are put up initially as of now.
Regards
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Old 18th Apr 2019, 13:01
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Doha, Qatar
Age: 51
Posts: 435
I actually enjoy Qatar- maybe Im a glass half full type of guy! I rarely fly with people who are not happy here in Qatar, as one would get the impression just reading PPRuNe; however I do think the lifestyle is little more fun at EK as mentioned, so depends what is important to you.
One thing to consider-Qr has adopted mostly EASA flight time limits-Most USA/Australia destinations are now 3 pilots vs 4, losing day off on all long haul flights like Houston, Lax. I will be the first to admit this is going to have a large affect on the lifestyle and roster we previously had.
( I believe Emirates tried this a couple years back?? as far as I know they backed off and returned to 4 pilot crew for most long haul?)
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Old 19th Apr 2019, 14:24
  #35 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: korea
Posts: 160
No one has mentioned the huge number of cadets that are now being trained at the Emirates Flight Training Academy and the effect that this is going to have on upgrades going forward. Additionally EK has probably peaked in terms of size and has a large number of child captains who are not going to retire or leave any time soon. I would suspect that the opportunities for upgrade are going to diminish fast. Just a word of caution as well regarding conditions as the latest recruiting add on the careers website says provident fund or gratuity. And yes a few recent recruits are only getting the gratuity.
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Old 20th Apr 2019, 05:24
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: overthere
Posts: 2,954
This is not confirmed . But I believe new joiners are now given the choice of provident fund or gratuity . Why anyone would choose gratuity is beyond me . But chatting with recent new joiner it would appear the not having to pay 5% into the B fund was the factor for him . One born every minute .
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Old 20th Apr 2019, 08:25
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: QR
Posts: 1
Hey guys,
I'm currently flying on the 737 with 1700 hours and looking to move to Qatar or EK aswel. I'm pretty happy at my company now but would like to try the long haul experience. I've been trying to look for contracts and rosters of both company's but am unable to find it. Anyone could send me an example would be appreciated. I'd like to compare the roster, money, accomodations etc...
I could find quite some info on EK's website but not much on Qatar's
Thanks !!
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Old 21st Apr 2019, 23:41
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: On my boat
Posts: 132
Originally Posted by kcar View Post
Time to command on EK777, hm letís see..

The B777 fleet expansion is over so youíre looking at attrition alone. The current rate is about 100 skippers per year leaving/retiring with 1300 skippers in total so you do the math. The 777x will replace old ER according to fleet management.
You also need to factor attrition from both seats. I wouldnít be surprised if more FOs leave than skippers, so you wonít be waiting for 1300 FOs to upgrade. My batch was an exception, but 5 out of 7 left before a course for various reasons.. QF-LOA etc.

The 777x, when fully up and running, will possibly take on additional ULR routes requiring more crews and more LHS. And the unknown is the 787. Also, there is no clear replacement for the 380... perhaps newer 300ERs will be retained with the 777 fleet growing again from 2020.
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Old 4th May 2019, 09:12
  #39 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: India
Posts: 6
Originally Posted by Zomboeing View Post
Thank you for the replies!
I will write down my observations as below, please give feedback on the same:
1. Lifestyle is better in DXB for sure.
2. Accomodation is better in DXB, choice of buying property in DXB exists.
3. Training is hard in EK, more pressure in that department.
4. Concerned about shifting from Boeing to Airbus380 in terms of amount of effort required.
5. Rosters to be compared in terms of fatigue and jet lag and number of hours.
6. Progression to be considered.
7. I think QR will be same aircraft till command, EK might change the fleet depending on situation.
8. I have read QR is more money but my research doesnít prove it, itís a better basic salary at EK and if you fly 80 hours at both places, itís same money.
9. I have been advised B787 is the future with 777x coming in.
10. I want my professional life to be sorted in terms of flying, fatigue, progression, training, sim checks and am planning to give 10 years in ME aleast.
11. Luke SkyToddler QR gives option to change accommodation if you do not like where you are put up initially as of now.
Regards
Request feedback on the same. How is blockade effecting things. Is it going to open soon. How will World Cup shape up the situation? Has EASA rules effected rosters in QR?
casablanca Point noted, QR as a place can be good for some depending on likings and lifestyle.
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Old 5th May 2019, 07:26
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: UAE
Posts: 137
Originally Posted by allaru View Post
No one has mentioned the huge number of cadets that are now being trained at the Emirates Flight Training Academy and the effect that this is going to have on upgrades going forward. Additionally EK has probably peaked in terms of size and has a large number of child captains who are not going to retire or leave any time soon. I would suspect that the opportunities for upgrade are going to diminish fast. Just a word of caution as well regarding conditions as the latest recruiting add on the careers website says provident fund or gratuity. And yes a few recent recruits are only getting the gratuity.
The cadets wonít have any effect on upgrades in the short to medium term because theyíll need a minimum of 6000 hours to upgrade. Historically it takes them 10 years to reach the left seat. So an FO joining EK now would be eligible for command long before the current batch of EFTA cadets would be ready.
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