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JULY 2018 ROSTERS

Middle East Many expats still flying in Knoteetingham. Regional issues can be discussed here.

JULY 2018 ROSTERS

Old 18th Jun 2018, 07:48
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Sweden
Posts: 56
Get out of that place. It's not worth it! The money is to no use when you're exhausted before retirement and have no joy of life left because of the years & years running at max capacity (and more) at EK. Now, I'm not a pilot at EK but know several who are down in the Sand Pit, and just hearing what is happening at EK is frightening. It's just getting worse and worse and it doesn't look to bright in the near future either. It's a shame they've run the company down this road too.

Get out of there, spend time with your family and friends, enjoy life. Do the little things you never had time to do while living in Dubai. Enjoy that morning coffee more often, have a quiet dinner more often. We don't live forever, the money at EK is not that important. You'll regret not leaving now in a few years when you realize your kid is 3 years older and you barely noticed what happend in between those years. I really encourage all of you who feel like s**t, constantly being treated as s**t and not living the life you dreamed of, to leave Dubai and seek new adventures which will bring more value to your lives.

We don't live forever, so make the most of it while you can. Don't get stuck where you're not happy. Ever. Best of luck to you all!!
Timpsi is offline  
Old 18th Jun 2018, 08:27
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: in the sky
Posts: 20
Thumbs up

Originally Posted by Timpsi View Post
Get out of that place. It's not worth it! The money is to no use when you're exhausted before retirement and have no joy of life left because of the years & years running at max capacity (and more) at EK. Now, I'm not a pilot at EK but know several who are down in the Sand Pit, and just hearing what is happening at EK is frightening. It's just getting worse and worse and it doesn't look to bright in the near future either. It's a shame they've run the company down this road too.

Get out of there, spend time with your family and friends, enjoy life. Do the little things you never had time to do while living in Dubai. Enjoy that morning coffee more often, have a quiet dinner more often. We don't live forever, the money at EK is not that important. You'll regret not leaving now in a few years when you realize your kid is 3 years older and you barely noticed what happend in between those years. I really encourage all of you who feel like s**t, constantly being treated as s**t and not living the life you dreamed of, to leave Dubai and seek new adventures which will bring more value to your lives.

We don't live forever, so make the most of it while you can. Don't get stuck where you're not happy. Ever. Best of luck to you all!!
Could not agree more... Life is simply too short!

Very well written.
paule737 is offline  
Old 18th Jun 2018, 08:44
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Dubai
Posts: 67
All very true. Wife and I have made the call as we are now in home country enjoying fresh air, nature and other little things. Big wake up call!
dustyflightdeck is offline  
Old 18th Jun 2018, 11:17
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Dusty West
Age: 50
Posts: 629
Originally Posted by glofish View Post
Certainly Outlaw. But ......

(Extract from OMA):
​​​​​​Flight duty is prohibited when a crew member’s capacity for work is reduced because of illness or general physical condition. Decrease of fitness includes the effects of disease, injury, alcohol, drugs, fatigue, etc.

In case of inquiry (inquisition) simply refer to the above

(Extract from the OMA):
Decrease of fitness under the influence of mental stress may also occur. It is the responsibility of the crew member to decide whether or not he is fit for flight duty in such circumstances.

In case of harassment as you described, refer to the above

We need balls to point at the legal defences that are available. Just pressing 2 is not what i meant. Calling in sick or fatigued (better) must be accompanied by valid arguments.
Imagine making a mistake under fatigue or stress, it will not hold as a defence, they'll be all over you with above articles if you invoke fatigue or mental company stress.
Look after yourself guys.
I agree with you 100% and I'm aware of the OMA as well. What they will do is ignore the first few times you call SKF. After that they will start to ask questions, send you for tests and find out if you have some health issue, probably send you for sleep apnea testing (at your expense) and worst of all, they start to involve themselves in your personal life, resting habits etc. My point being that if you are dropping flights because you just don't want to fly 100 hours and you are otherwise healthy then that is where the circus will begin. Some guys run a business on the side in DXB, if this is part of the underlying cause for fatigue then they might suggest you choose one or the other. Again, in their world, they EXPECT you to work the hours, if you can't then they will find those who can, even if its for 5-7 years.
The Outlaw is offline  
Old 18th Jun 2018, 11:20
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Dusty West
Age: 50
Posts: 629
Originally Posted by donpizmeov View Post
And file an ASR if your roster/pattern causes fatigue. Write to TCT and provide your roster and your bid receipt if you think the manual insertion brigade have been at work. We need everyone to provide the evidence that the system doesn't work
Without lots of data nothing is going to change.
Its been done by many and on numerous occasions. The reply? "The roster is legal".
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Old 18th Jun 2018, 11:25
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Dusty West
Age: 50
Posts: 629
Talking

Originally Posted by dustyflightdeck View Post
All very true. Wife and I have made the call as we are now in home country enjoying fresh air, nature and other little things. Big wake up call!
Just a few more trips to go!!
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Old 18th Jun 2018, 13:15
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 655
Its been done by many and on numerous occasions. The reply? "The roster is legal".
To which my reply has been.

”Thank you xxxxx for your considered response, as you state the roster is indeed “legal” on the basis of your narrow interpretation. As I’m sure you are well aware fatigue issues are specific to individuals and manifest themselves in a variety of well understood symptoms, moreover, the basis for the current approved FTL scheme is based on generic data with no provision or consideration given to events or circumstances beyond being able to achieve optimal amounts of rest before and after a duty period.
Fortunately as part of the approved FTL scheme the provision exists for the individual who feels unfit for duty to utilise the fatigue provision as appropriate.
Thank you once again for your response, I am anticipating that the 4 days of rest recommended by my AME will be sufficient to allow me to recover from the roster as flown and published.
Monarch Man is offline  
Old 18th Jun 2018, 14:00
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Centre of Universe
Posts: 141
Originally Posted by Monarch Man View Post


To which my reply has been.

”Thank you xxxxx for your considered response, as you state the roster is indeed “legal” on the basis of your narrow interpretation. As I’m sure you are well aware fatigue issues are specific to individuals and manifest themselves in a variety of well understood symptoms, moreover, the basis for the current approved FTL scheme is based on generic data with no provision or consideration given to events or circumstances beyond being able to achieve optimal amounts of rest before and after a duty period.
Fortunately as part of the approved FTL scheme the provision exists for the individual who feels unfit for duty to utilise the fatigue provision as appropriate.
Thank you once again for your response, I am anticipating that the 4 days of rest recommended by my AME will be sufficient to allow me to recover from the roster as flown and published.
Monarch Man
To my understanding non of the bio-mathematical sleep predictive models can handle cumulative fatigue (some not at all) so on paper you're comments are solid. I suspect also there is a lack of data specific to EK Operations which any proper FRMS would need.
GKOC41 is offline  
Old 18th Jun 2018, 14:10
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 655
Monarch Man
To my understanding non of the bio-mathematical sleep predictive models can handle cumulative fatigue (some not at all) so on paper you're comments are solid. I suspect also there is a lack of data specific to EK Operations which any proper FRMS would need.
No FRMS in existence can adequately predict true fatigue, it is a fudge of language and terminology to satisfy regulatory pressure in a litigation prone environment, hence the individual responsibility to be deemed to be fit. In essence if you go to work you are by your actions considered not to be fatigued should anything happen, worse still, if it is determined you are indeed fatigued it is likely then that you will be considered culpable in some form.
Monarch Man is offline  
Old 21st Jun 2018, 13:44
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: England
Posts: 4
The only way to have the rosters change is reporting fatigued guys and girls.

Once a percentage of fatigue reports are received, normally around 20% the company through the FRMS system have to make changes to that duty or pairing.

If you’re sceptical about reporting fatigued because you’ve listened to the bulls**t rumours about being dragged in by management, enjoy your 100+ rosters till you leave EK.


IHEK is offline  
Old 21st Jun 2018, 20:46
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Below the tropopause
Posts: 381
July is looking pretty sweet. 16 days off, 81 hrs in mostly long day flights, 2 stby days and a block of almost 6 consecutive days off. Max hours, no leave. Not bad!
High Energy is offline  
Old 22nd Jun 2018, 05:46
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: earth
Posts: 1,084
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Originally Posted by IHEK View Post
The only way to have the rosters change is reporting fatigued guys and girls.

Once a percentage of fatigue reports are received, normally around 20% the company through the FRMS system have to make changes to that duty or pairing.

If you’re sceptical about reporting fatigued because you’ve listened to the bulls**t rumours about being dragged in by management, enjoy your 100+ rosters till you leave EK.


IHEK: Agree 100%.
glofish is offline  
Old 22nd Jun 2018, 11:02
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Dubai
Posts: 210
Originally Posted by SOPS View Post
Go home and enjoy what life you have left. If you went to the clinic and they said ... you have 3 years left to live... would you stay in Dubai??? If the answer is no, then have a think about things. ( My opinion only)
SOPS are you still driving trains? There's some guy ex-airlines (airbus, no doubt, one of those euro types!) now driving the Glacier Express in Schweitzerland. you've started a trend!
JAARule is offline  
Old 22nd Jun 2018, 11:28
  #34 (permalink)  
short flights long nights
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 3,180
Sure am!!! Would love to have a drive of the Glacier Express!!!!
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Old 22nd Jun 2018, 19:14
  #35 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: High in the Sky
Posts: 152
Originally Posted by High Energy View Post
July is looking pretty sweet. 16 days off, 81 hrs in mostly long day flights, 2 stby days and a block of almost 6 consecutive days off. Max hours, no leave. Not bad!
Me too! Very similar, 77 hours, 15 off, one standby and two blocks of four off. I really don’t know what this lot are complaining about.
Oh, wait a minute HE, we both work on the other side of the runways......😉
Voodoo 3 is offline  
Old 22nd Jun 2018, 19:39
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Below the tropopause
Posts: 381
Originally Posted by Voodoo 3 View Post


Me too! Very similar, 77 hours, 15 off, one standby and two blocks of four off. I really don’t know what this lot are complaining about.
Oh, wait a minute HE, we both work on the other side of the runways......😉
Correct! 😁👍🏼 It's not an EK specific thread so why not share the love...😉
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Old 23rd Jun 2018, 04:07
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Dubai rock city
Age: 47
Posts: 171
You guys seriously boasting about Fly Dubai.
motley flight crue is online now  
Old 23rd Jun 2018, 08:01
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Below the tropopause
Posts: 381
Originally Posted by motley flight crue View Post
You guys seriously boasting about Fly Dubai.
What's wrong with that? No airline is perfect and neither is flydubai. Each to their own and if it works for you then good on you. I'm not complaining about flydubai is all I'm saying. And that's as an PIC.

And yes, I did think about joining EK but I've been following the EK thread(s) for a loooong time now, and talking to friends over there it's put me of for life. Just my personal choice. Plus it's actually quite allright without fatigue and sleeping in my own bed every day. Yes I make less money and have less perks or end of service benefits. C'est la vie.
High Energy is offline  
Old 23rd Jun 2018, 18:15
  #39 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Brazil
Age: 34
Posts: 8
fish

Originally Posted by Voodoo 3 View Post


Me too! Very similar, 77 hours, 15 off, one standby and two blocks of four off. I really don’t know what this lot are complaining about.
Oh, wait a minute HE, we both work on the other side of the runways......��
67 hours + 10 Sim Hours, 13 days OFF, 1 STBY, home everyday.... Living the dream.
agolmefudeu is offline  
Old 23rd Jun 2018, 21:22
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: UAE
Posts: 203
High Energy, if you think 81 hours in the remaining 15 days is sweet, there is no hope.
I just hope that your post is sarcasm and not a positive.
gardenshed is offline  

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