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Emirates 3 crew long haul destinations this Summer

Middle East Many expats still flying in Knoteetingham. Regional issues can be discussed here.

Emirates 3 crew long haul destinations this Summer

Old 27th May 2018, 03:18
  #161 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: In the back of a bus
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Yeah but pilots have ready access to their passports and a staff travel system (however flawed it may be) so if they're really in dire straits an exit is possible.

Not so for the poor guy sweeping the road or building the next lot of crappy villas. He needs to go "ask" for his passport and can only dream of having the cash (or access to it) to pay off a USD5K bond.

Not really a balanced comparison
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Old 27th May 2018, 06:09
  #162 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
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Originally Posted by givemewings View Post
Yeah but pilots have ready access to their passports and a staff travel system (however flawed it may be) so if they're really in dire straits an exit is possible.

Not so for the poor guy sweeping the road or building the next lot of crappy villas. He needs to go "ask" for his passport and can only dream of having the cash (or access to it) to pay off a USD5K bond.

Not really a balanced comparison
That was the point, there are more alternative employment options for a 'guest' pilot from a first world western economy, when compared to those poor souls who due birth had no such advantage.
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Old 27th May 2018, 12:05
  #163 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
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Yes I'm in agreement was replying to the comment above mine, wasn't clear.

5 years is nothing if you have ready access to buy your way out.
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Old 27th May 2018, 19:51
  #164 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
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Originally Posted by Rated De View Post
To airline management almost the world over, regulatory limits are targets.
To an office KPI driven 'efficiency management' professional, there is ZERO regard for anything other than moving roster practice ever closer to a limit.
They of course have weekends off and no sleep disturbance, even if they find themselves listless, there is another sleep opportunity just tomorrow!
Your crew hotels another cost to be minimised.

Of course in a modern Orwellian nightmare like the UAE where Regulator and Airline Management are 'incredibly similar' when those limits are met, change the limits! Gives a whole new meaning to regulatory capture.
Fortunately unlike many other 'guest workers' in the UAE pilots are less indentured.
Rated De
Sorry I disagree. I'm currently in my 10th Airline spanning nearly 40 years and never has any Director mentioned regulatory limits being targets. Yes KPI are more of a buzz word these days as much as the word graduate required for any sort of job. And without doubt the cost of a decent crew hotel was never mentioned. If you know your stuff you can get great deals out of the Marriott etc. So please don't tar all Airlines with the same brush (or CAA's)
As for weekends off and no sleep disruption - I once complained I worked 12 hours at a weekend and got nothing as a Manager whereas a Pilot could work 1 minute past mid night and get ££££ - My DFO said "go get a Pilots job" - so my advice to you is go get a Office workers job and take the £££ that goes with it.
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Old 27th May 2018, 20:30
  #165 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: UAE
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Originally Posted by GKOC41 View Post
Rated De
Sorry I disagree. I'm currently in my 10th Airline spanning nearly 40 years and never has any Director mentioned regulatory limits being targets. Yes KPI are more of a buzz word these days as much as the word graduate required for any sort of job. And without doubt the cost of a decent crew hotel was never mentioned. If you know your stuff you can get great deals out of the Marriott etc. So please don't tar all Airlines with the same brush (or CAA's)
As for weekends off and no sleep disruption - I once complained I worked 12 hours at a weekend and got nothing as a Manager whereas a Pilot could work 1 minute past mid night and get ££££ - My DFO said "go get a Pilots job" - so my advice to you is go get a Office workers job and take the £££ that goes with it.
10 Airlines in 40 yrs ? Hmmmm !
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Old 27th May 2018, 20:44
  #166 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
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it’s quite amusing to see how this trick worked on most of you . here is a small scenario on how it was done

Mr J : listen new guy we need you to work your magic , atleast these 3 trips a 3 men Crew asap
Mr C : consider it done
Mr C : dear friends i give you 6 trips of 3 men operation , 3 trips may be considered reasonable, 3 trips ridiculously undoable
Friends : this is madnesses
Mr C : Ok friends i hear you , only 3 trips just for you
Friends : Ooooooh They listen to us
Mr J :

THE END
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Old 27th May 2018, 22:18
  #167 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by GKOC41 View Post
Rated De
... I'm currently in my 10th Airline spanning nearly 40 years ...
That makes you an expert at......changing jobs.
But of course in those 40 years the attitudes and practices of management have never changed. No, not at all.

NowThatsFunny
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Old 28th May 2018, 01:26
  #168 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
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Originally Posted by GKOC41 View Post
Rated De
Sorry I disagree. I'm currently in my 10th Airline spanning nearly 40 years and never has any Director mentioned regulatory limits being targets. Yes KPI are more of a buzz word these days as much as the word graduate required for any sort of job. And without doubt the cost of a decent crew hotel was never mentioned. If you know your stuff you can get great deals out of the Marriott etc. So please don't tar all Airlines with the same brush (or CAA's)
As for weekends off and no sleep disruption - I once complained I worked 12 hours at a weekend and got nothing as a Manager whereas a Pilot could work 1 minute past mid night and get ££££ - My DFO said "go get a Pilots job" - so my advice to you is go get a Office workers job and take the £££ that goes with it.
Thanks for the advice, we weren't actually asking for any.
Nonetheless, one person's experience may be sufficient to form their opinion, and we thank you for your contribution, however our experience is broad, both from an operational and administrative perspective, so we respectfully differ in opinion.

Airline efficiency however is not a confined to one person's experience. Airlines themselves face two large operating costs. One they can't control (so, many airlines claim) fuel and the other one they can; labour unit cost. How each individual airline calculates the labour unit cost is an internal black box, suffice to say knowing your stuff would entail minimising it, lowering it where you can and extracting productivity improvements where able. This is perhaps why empirically it is axiomatic that changes around the margin have moved crew roster practice ever closer to the regulatory limit in the last forty years.

Students of airline finance understand one key metric of the Low Far Airline was utilisation. Improving utilisation and limiting stage length allowed Low Far Airlines the opportunity to squeeze an extra point to point sector, which a full service carrier faced complexity doing with a hub and spoke network. Naturally crews both cabin and pilot followed the aircraft and tours of duty needed to reflect this key point of difference. They did.

Full Service airlines have trimmed turn around times, increasing utilisaition all to drive efficiency. Some airlines have achieved substantial improvement in labour unit cost. Full Service Airlines can and have replicated Low Fare Airline practices where able, and empirically have bettered and closed the unit cost advantage once the sole domain of Low Far Airlines. As with the Low Far Airlines, crews follow the aircraft and consequently changing roster practice reflects this lower unit cost (at least in part)

Therefore to drive efficiency, often targeted by KPI inducements is a whole department's endeavour. We maintain contacts in all sorts of areas, some efficiency targets may be crew hotel cost, others are focused solely on the contract elements and extracting greater from the existing contract, identifying where savings may be generated in the next negotiation and securing these savings.

In the last summer we have seen British Airways captured by the Low Fare Airline mindset drive down the unit cost by removing included menu items on their flights. Whilst this singularity ignore the yield premium a full service airline can generate it is but another example of perceived 'efficiency' which by definition will include the highest source of cost controlled by airlines; labour unit costs.
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Old 28th May 2018, 04:00
  #169 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
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"Plausible Deniability"

Originally Posted by GKOC41 View Post
never has any Director mentioned regulatory limits being targets.
Like many things in Aviation, of course it was not explicitly stated, but please do NOT try to deny that the unstated pressure was there to reach the 'performance goals' of the department. It's called "plausible deniability" and its endemic throughout management in this industry.

Just like "safety shall never be compromised" is the "stated" mantra while the actual pressure is to move airplanes is that is what is backed up by actions. Then when something goes wrong they can always fall back to their "plausibly deniable" position of "we never TOLD the (Pilot / dispatcher / planner etc.) to do that, after all we are safety-first!" etc.
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Old 28th May 2018, 05:21
  #170 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Middle East
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Originally Posted by GKOC41
I'm currently in my 10th Airline spanning nearly 40 years
Not a great track record there bud.....average of 4 years at each airline.
I certainly wouldn’t be boasting about that.....if true.
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Old 28th May 2018, 06:34
  #171 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
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It's amazing the gap between intelligence and stupidity in some of the posts here ....... Rated De .... DUX of the class .... and GKOC41, well, DUNCE of the class.
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Old 28th May 2018, 14:25
  #172 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
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Originally Posted by Buckshot16 View Post
It's amazing the gap between intelligence and stupidity in some of the posts here ....... Rated De .... DUX of the class .... and GKOC41, well, DUNCE of the class.

If we’re Emirates pilots than none of us can say we’re Eisenstein’s. After all we’re slaving away for our Sand Masters because we did not get hired by our National airlines and boy are we paying the price for it.
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Old 28th May 2018, 16:00
  #173 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Arakis
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Cerbrus

I disagree with you regarding not being hired by national airlines and paying price in UAE. The real reason is taxation back home and cost of living. For the same set of skills we earned more coming to middle east and it worked fine for a decade.But nothing lasts forever i knew this from the first day I arrived in the middle of a sandstorm and boy i was asking myself why?

you know the saying "it was a good idea at the time"
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Old 29th May 2018, 09:21
  #174 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
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you know the saying "it was a good idea at the time"

Im sure that’s what EK are saying about most of AS ideas, for example Meydan South!
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Old 29th May 2018, 12:51
  #175 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Originally Posted by gtaflyer View Post
I disagree with you regarding not being hired by national airlines and paying price in UAE. For the same set of skills we earned more coming to middle east and it worked fine for a decade.

you know the saying "it was a good idea at the time"
Even in the late 90s or early 2000s EK was never better than the National Carriers. It just seemed like it was with the quick upgrades and supposedly easy living. What a farce it all turned out to be!
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Old 29th May 2018, 13:01
  #176 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by LHR Rain View Post


Even in the late 90s or early 2000s EK was never better than the National Carriers. It just seemed like it was with the quick upgrades and supposedly easy living. What a farce it all turned out to be!
LHR Rain,

are you still in EK?
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Old 2nd Jul 2018, 09:22
  #177 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 201
Maybe apathy, Seaman?
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Old 2nd Jul 2018, 11:16
  #178 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Knoteatingham
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I think the sad realisation that the situation will never be fixed has now been understood by the last of the Kool Aid drinkers and we are now concentrating on updating resumes and arranging interviews, rather than trying to help fix something that is broken beyond repair.
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Old 2nd Jul 2018, 11:48
  #179 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Dubai - sand land.
Age: 50
Posts: 2,585
Originally Posted by Seaman Staynes
I've not see many ASRs about it
Well you won't yet! Takes a while for the ASRs to filter through to the weekly summary; seems to take a couple of weeks or so and the 3 crew rotations only started yesterday!
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Old 2nd Jul 2018, 12:45
  #180 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Dubai
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Originally Posted by BigGeordie View Post
For me it was/is a choice of stay at EK and retire in my late 50s or go back to Europe and work until I'm at least 65. It wasn't an easy choice but I decided to stay put in the land of sand....
Do you ever worry about your longevity? In a European job you're possibly more likely to make it to 65 than in EK getting whipped. The impact of a career spent to retirement in EK is as yet unknown.
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