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Emirates 3 crew long haul destinations this Summer

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Emirates 3 crew long haul destinations this Summer

Old 17th May 2018, 19:07
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
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Originally Posted by my salami View Post


Yes, many of the US Carriers are operating with 3 man crew....

MS
Not with 15 hrs duty ... !! Come on be serious
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Old 17th May 2018, 19:20
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
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Alertness will be "Acceptable"

Originally Posted by gtaflyer View Post
I wonder how long the current fatigued crews will last in their jobs before dropping like flies.....I mean summer season is here already
Remember when our rosters were always published late, it was because the company needed, in their words "EXTREME" flexibility, for financial gain of course.

But when it comes to safety, we only need "ACCEPTABLE" levels. Gotta love how alertness will merely be "Acceptable" according to the "SAFE" analysis. Shouldn't we be having "optimum" or "superior" or even "EXTREME" levels of alertness / safety enroute? I guess that kind of cost/benefit ratio is not ranking so highly these days.
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Old 17th May 2018, 20:27
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
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The pace of decline in this airline is unreal.

If we knew it’d get better, we might see a future here. But we know it’s going to get worse.

Pure desperation to crew flights with complete disregard for safety or wellbeing of their employees - where’s CNN now?

The most infuriating thing, habibis sat around thinking how smart they are.

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Old 17th May 2018, 21:14
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
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Well it didn’t take long for BBJ’s short haul experience to make its mark on the long haul.

Anyone know anyone or ever had any ‘one on one’ feedback from the FRMS Dept after your fatigue reports?

It’s the lack of honesty that really goads “Guys we are massively short, this is temp, we’ll pay you $xxx in the interim if you are on a 3 man ULR”

Nope - and if you are not convinced about his quick assimilation- notice the part where he mentions how they have great candidates for the DCP position- “ but the window is still open!”

riiight

Just when you think it can’t get any worse....it’s actually making pilots who stay here - look really stupid

Now that pisses people off





Last edited by fliion; 17th May 2018 at 22:17.
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Old 17th May 2018, 23:38
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
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Originally Posted by aeropix View Post
Who’s going to operate the GIG EZE flight if there’s only 3 crew to GIG?

Who’s going to operate GRU-SCL if there’s only 3 man crew to GRU?

Will it be single pilot? That would be efficiency!
that assumes EZE stay as a layover.
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Old 17th May 2018, 23:38
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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Maybe it's just me but I am finding BBJ's weekly address to now become a rather patronising read at times. Whilst it's good for him to engage with us at regular intervals, his words should be few and well chosen. Keep the points concise and leave out all the layers of justification, as it will only result in his credibility diminishing with him in turn, looking like an idiot!!!
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Old 18th May 2018, 00:48
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by my salami View Post


Yes, many of the US Carriers are operating with 3 man crew....

MS

You are correct, sort of.....if the flight historically (50.1%) is 8 hours or over 3 crew needed. EK doesn't. But if the flight is over 12, the FAA requires a full augmenting crew. NO three man crews over 12 hours. Get your facts straight.
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Old 18th May 2018, 01:19
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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"It's all your fault Habibis. If you hadn't let your colleagues depart in such numbers, and let them tell such lies to prospective pilots saying life here was bad, then we wouldn't have crewing issues, and we wouldn't have had to make these flights 3 crew. There is no such thing as fatigue. You will all do these flights and we will get no paperwork stating fatigue issues. It is just a few rotten dates infesting the rest of you good slaves.........cough cough........ I mean good 'ones' habibis. It is ok habibis, as soon as summer is over and we have enough pilots we will return to 4 crew operations. Like we did with the Productivity Pay habibis. Happy Ramadan habibis."

Last edited by mmmbop; 18th May 2018 at 06:55.
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Old 18th May 2018, 02:05
  #29 (permalink)  
Longtimelurker
 
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Originally Posted by my salami View Post


Yes, many of the US Carriers are operating with 3 man crew....

MS
Anything over 11:59 is a 4 man crew in USA ( FAA )
filejw is online now  
Old 18th May 2018, 02:35
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: uae
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I think this is ludicrous!
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Old 18th May 2018, 04:25
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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Just The beginning

Incase your wondering why only a select few flights to SYD / MEL and not all of them went 3 crew and why leave out BNE ?
It would be because GCAA approval process requires a trial period and review of reports prior to final approval.
Newsletter did not state this or that the GCAA will also require to review all the ASRs and CSR and Fatigue reports submitted during this trial period.

A precedent had all-ready been established with the 14 HR Dubai-Toronto 3 crew flight. This also had a trail period however not enough reports were received to deem 3 crew unacceptable so approval was given.
GCAA have a confidential report line if your concerned and want anonymity then details can be found under GCAA CAAP 57 ( VORSY) Voluntary Reporting Procedure. All aviation companies are required to notify employees of this procedure.
A direct link is provided here CAAP 57

Quote
Note: The reporter may choose to remain anonymous. GCAA will never attempt to identify, nor trace the IP address of the reporter.
Link to the reporting page here Voluntary Reporting System (VORSY)

On the flip side the ridiculous 100 hours a month thats now the norm will drop off.
When you do one of these 3 crew flights and decide not to file an ASR/CSR/Fatigue report then your part of the problem and not the solution.
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Old 18th May 2018, 06:07
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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[QUOTE=uplock;10149914]

On the flip side the ridiculous 100 hours a month thats now the norm will drop off.

I can't see how . It will be operated two Captains one FO . Captain hours will remain the same with the only reduction being in rest hours .EK is running out of FOs as they can't hire enough, so the few they have will just be shared around a bit more. So no hour reduction there, apart from rest hours of course .
We will still have people bidding for these patterns, and people willing to swap onto them without the productivity pay as per the new rules . The company will win twice, and the only complaints from the pilot body will be found here.
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Old 18th May 2018, 06:20
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
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Uplock

Incase your wondering why only a select few flights to SYD / MEL and not all of them went 3 crew and why leave out BNE ?


Just in case you book sick outstation... EASY!
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Old 18th May 2018, 08:49
  #34 (permalink)  
short flights long nights
 
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Well that did not take long...BBJ who has never flown an EK sector in his life telling you guys how it can be done!!!

Im wondering if they have taken into account (the lack)of factoring? Work with me on this one. With only 3 pilots, ( a totally insane idea) each pilot will spend less time in the bunk...therefore less hours can be factored.
Therefore they can fly you less for your 100 hours a month (lazy pilots), if you understand what I mean. So less availability to roster pilots, means they need more pilots. Are they actually chasing there own tails here?
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Old 18th May 2018, 08:52
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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Next week Brian will explain how he has reinvented the wheel (again) this version has 4 sides and won't roll downhill. (Just like the last square one!)

And Emma R, "patronising beyond clawing" springs to mind for what words you were looking for to describe BBJ's tone..................................
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Old 18th May 2018, 09:11
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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VORSY:

Note: The reporter may choose to remain anonymous. GCAA will never attempt to identify, nor trace the IP address of the reporter.

Be very careful. I used VORSY once and this is what happened:

The report was rejected by the GCAA! However a few days later EK (!) mailed me and asked why i had reported directly to the GCAA and not filed a ASR first .....

Go figure

The system is rigged and there is no hope with any reporting, anonymous or not.
The only defense, and the only language the system understands is press 2.
This is the sad truth.
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Old 18th May 2018, 09:14
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Dubai
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Don't waste your time with GCAA. of FAA/CASA get enough complaints they will investigate
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Old 18th May 2018, 09:19
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
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A few helpful links to get the ball rolling:

Civil Aviation Safety Authority anonymous reporting
https://www.casa.gov.au/about-us/web...safe-behaviour

Australian Transport Safety Bureau anonymous reporting
https://www.atsb.gov.au/voluntary/repcon_aviation.aspx

FAA anonymous reporting
Whistleblower Protection Program - Electronic Complaint Notification

Couldnt find the link to the Brazilian ANAC anonymous reporting (if they have one?), any Brazilian lads or ladettes care to provide?

Fuel-Off
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Old 18th May 2018, 09:43
  #39 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
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Originally Posted by Fuel-Off View Post
A few helpful links to get the ball rolling:

Civil Aviation Safety Authority anonymous reporting
https://www.casa.gov.au/about-us/web...safe-behaviour

Australian Transport Safety Bureau anonymous reporting
https://www.atsb.gov.au/voluntary/repcon_aviation.aspx

FAA anonymous reporting
Whistleblower Protection Program - Electronic Complaint Notification

Couldnt find the link to the Brazilian ANAC anonymous reporting (if they have one?), any Brazilian lads or ladettes care to provide?

Fuel-Off


Thank you for the links. I will definitely write to them
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Old 18th May 2018, 11:02
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
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My guess is that the 3 man ULR is here to stay. They do not have the man power to properly staff the schedule now and even if pilots came "en masse", it would take a minimum of 3 years before the line guys would see the benefits.

So its not even a question of pressing 2 anymore for your health, its really a question of pressing the "submit" button of your resignation email, your health is a long term investment as opposed to a couple days off here and there. Everyone also knows that they will start probing in to the question of " why you are not rested" with the 10 days off per month you get"? "Do you snore?" will be asked and then it gets interesting from there...ask some guys who have gone through it.

In any case, the trend has been downward, my guess for the next "knee in the package" will be income tax among other gems, a reduction in leave which has been tried before.

The trend however has become serious as it appears "safety third" has become the truth.

Stay safe.
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