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Emirates - Trying to understand the financial Equation

Middle East Many expats still flying in Knoteetingham. Regional issues can be discussed here.

Emirates - Trying to understand the financial Equation

Old 14th May 2018, 19:00
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Up north
Posts: 1,609
Originally Posted by burnable gomi View Post
Why not consider getting a biz jet job overseas? You can make 2-3 times your current salary as a biz jet captain in Asia without working nearly as hard or being treated as badly as EK. As an experienced Challenger captain it should be a relatively easy prospect to find a job.
Yep, USD20K + in HK or Shanghai should be perfectly doable. Tax rate around 15% and housing will obviously cost you USD4000 per month perhaps but with this level of income that's pretty acceptable. Lots of companies desperate for experienced Challenger / Falcon / Gulfstream / GLEX pilots in Asia at the moment.

CP
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Old 15th May 2018, 11:53
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
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Originally Posted by Camelonglide View Post


$3300 us saving a month on a FO salary?
Hard to believe unless wife is working, very senior FO plus overtime and no extra curriculum kids activities (swim, soccer, music) and ... dinner always at home with rice ....
Why? Using 15,000+ aed of the basic salary to live on each month is plenty. Seems quite doable if you are disciplined.
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Old 15th May 2018, 12:33
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Knoteatingham
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Originally Posted by pilotguy1222 View Post
Why? Using 15,000+ aed of the basic salary to live on each month is plenty. Seems quite doable if you are disciplined.
Quite right. It does depend though on how you choose to spend what passes for days off in Dubai.

if you are a new expat it is understandable that you want to sample a wide variety of what Dubai has to offer - and it isn't cheap.

If you have children at school, car loan, training bond to consider, credit card, etc, etc then salary can go very quickly.

The secret imho is to resist all the easy bank loan temptations in the first 18 months or so and just consolidate your financial positions. Some guys take out big car loans on day one and never really catch up.

Before you come to EK just ask yourself why you are coming. If it is for $ then you are going to have to miss out on a lot of brunches, second car loans and high end restaurant meals.

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Old 15th May 2018, 15:21
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
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Originally Posted by pilotguy1222 View Post
Why? Using 15,000+ aed of the basic salary to live on each month is plenty. Seems quite doable if you are disciplined.
Doable but you need to be very + very + very disciplined with lots limitations: no brunches, no dinner out, no travels ... and your wife and family needs to apply them as well ...
Very hard with a family + kids on a single income.
You can save but not that amount.
I think 1,800 - 2,000$ is more realistic on an FO salary.
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Old 15th May 2018, 15:57
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: bahamas
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I came as a single guy , lived out , had lots of fun , no fancy car , many nights out ..... 15 a month can do as single guy .
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Old 15th May 2018, 16:04
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: South of North
Posts: 656
Buy ONE car and buy it used off one of the many expats that are leaving. You can get GREAT vehicles for next to nothing! You get driven to work so avoid the second car. Furnish your place via Dubizzle etc as well. Lots of beautiful furniture for sale (again expats leaving) that is almost new. Make a plan and stick to it. But if you think you are going to move to DXB and enjoy the high life AND save you are sadly mistaken. It is a VERY expensive place if you want to play. You can still enjoy life and have some fun but, like back home, you have to be reasonable. Too many come here, buy two cars, a motorbike or boat (or both), have wives who spend lavishly etc etc. Ten years later and they still have nothing to show for it.

You can also write off the first year in terms of savings - moving and setting up is expensive.

It was good when the upgrades were 3-4 years. Now at over 5 years and climbing it becomes far less of a draw to come to EK. Plan on 7 years to the upgrade and you won't be disappointed. If you believe the hype and base your finances on a 4 year upgrade you'll be sorely disappointed.
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Old 15th May 2018, 16:22
  #27 (permalink)  
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Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: toronto
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Originally Posted by Visual Procedures View Post
Not sure which department you work for dustyflightdeck, but I certainly didn't get a 3% pay rise this year.

As an EK 777 captain, when I fly 900 hours again this year, my pay rise works out at 281.25 dhs per month.
I'm confused? Is there a 3 percent increase every year?
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Old 15th May 2018, 16:35
  #28 (permalink)  
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Join Date: Dec 2016
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Originally Posted by thatsme View Post
Crewdude,

Your numbers are about right. 2 flaws. You have not taken into account the provident fund. No clue how much an junior FO takes but my guess is you save another CAD$1200 a month on top of it. The other flaw is that I think you under estimate the cost of food ( at home or outside) in Dubai. Its quite expensive, think New York/Londen.

Yes there are some hidden fees here and there, but we are talking dirhams here. Always found it a bit embarrassing hearing guys bitching about there once a year CAD$60 liquor permit while clearing CAD$25.000 a month.

Your CAD$500 for Ubers and taxis is enough. I would recommend a car, you will not regret during the summer!! You pick em up dirt cheap over here. Insurance and petrol compared to back home is cheap. For your cheap leisure take the EPC membership. Dirt cheap , access to the best gyms, beachclubs, tennis, squash, pools, golf in DXB.

The key is to stay single!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I came with a family in tow, but that was 13 years ago. Would not recommend that anymore.
Stay 7 years, bond gone, provident fund in the pocket, take the savings and start again back home in a junior position but with a nice pension fund in the back pocket, and a Nice expat experience.

Forget about Qatar. Its a shit hole. It will only work for young single Europeans who do a bit of commuting to europe. To big of a distance for you.
Thanks for your response! So how does the provident fund work? To my understanding 5 percent off your paycheck? Cant touch that money for how long? Where does that money get invested? Is there interest being applied to that? Bond is 7 years?

I'm single now. I assume there wouldn't be any time to date?? My guess days off are spent catching up or resting.

I spent a week in Qatar 3 years ago. Boss had a trip there. I enjoyed my time, however, I was also staying at the 4 seasons where he was sleeping. It was a nice spot, but, I realize that's not reality. Tell me why Qatar not the place to be?

Again, thank you!!
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Old 15th May 2018, 16:39
  #29 (permalink)  
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Join Date: Dec 2016
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Originally Posted by IEFCL View Post
A bit of the offtopic, but would FZ be a better sanity-wise option? As far as I am aware of, money for FOs are almost the same, quicker upgrades, no jetlag and people do not seem complayning as much in the FZ thread. If someone can shed light upon the matter, it would be appreciated.
Good afternoon from CYYZ

I`m starting to take some interest in Asia. As for the Corporate operators they want time on gulfstream 450/550/650 or a Global. I have a G4 rating which they dont care for. The G450 is a new course with new screens so an initial type rating will be required. Seems like Hong Kong Airlines is expanding.
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Old 15th May 2018, 16:48
  #30 (permalink)  
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Join Date: Dec 2016
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Originally Posted by Trader View Post
Buy ONE car and buy it used off one of the many expats that are leaving. You can get GREAT vehicles for next to nothing! You get driven to work so avoid the second car. Furnish your place via Dubizzle etc as well. Lots of beautiful furniture for sale (again expats leaving) that is almost new. Make a plan and stick to it. But if you think you are going to move to DXB and enjoy the high life AND save you are sadly mistaken. It is a VERY expensive place if you want to play. You can still enjoy life and have some fun but, like back home, you have to be reasonable. Too many come here, buy two cars, a motorbike or boat (or both), have wives who spend lavishly etc etc. Ten years later and they still have nothing to show for it.

You can also write off the first year in terms of savings - moving and setting up is expensive.

It was good when the upgrades were 3-4 years. Now at over 5 years and climbing it becomes far less of a draw to come to EK. Plan on 7 years to the upgrade and you won't be disappointed. If you believe the hype and base your finances on a 4 year upgrade you'll be sorely disappointed.
Thank you. All great points. Everything noted too. It`s a tough decision. Still based on my salary, which is considered to be okay, we are heavily taxed. Like I said earlier, at 120k I pay 48k to the government. That's a big percentage then plus need to cover the roof too. The saving plan that I am on now isn`t the strongest.
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Old 15th May 2018, 16:58
  #31 (permalink)  
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Join Date: Dec 2016
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Originally Posted by Camelonglide View Post
Doable but you need to be very + very + very disciplined with lots limitations: no brunches, no dinner out, no travels ... and your wife and family needs to apply them as well ...
Very hard with a family + kids on a single income.
You can save but not that amount.
I think 1,800 - 2,000$ is more realistic on an FO salary.
Hello from CYYZ

I was really hoping to put 3,500 away. If that's not doable not sure i can be convinced by myself. Dont know why I would assume its manageable tho?? Yes I'm aware of the going out life. Its the same everywhere. But at a salary of 7,000k usd (lets use this number to be conservative) you would think after a car payment, insurance, gas, bla bla bla bla you could count on that everywhere month???

Fellow Pilots, thanks for all this amazing information. Please keep in coming. You guys are awesome.
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Old 15th May 2018, 17:55
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
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Posts: 272
Originally Posted by Trader View Post
Buy ONE car and buy it used off one of the many expats that are leaving. You can get GREAT vehicles for next to nothing! You get driven to work so avoid the second car. Furnish your place via Dubizzle etc as well. Lots of beautiful furniture for sale (again expats leaving) that is almost new. Make a plan and stick to it. But if you think you are going to move to DXB and enjoy the high life AND save you are sadly mistaken. It is a VERY expensive place if you want to play. You can still enjoy life and have some fun but, like back home, you have to be reasonable. Too many come here, buy two cars, a motorbike or boat (or both), have wives who spend lavishly etc etc. Ten years later and they still have nothing to show for it.

You can also write off the first year in terms of savings - moving and setting up is expensive.

It was good when the upgrades were 3-4 years. Now at over 5 years and climbing it becomes far less of a draw to come to EK. Plan on 7 years to the upgrade and you won't be disappointed. If you believe the hype and base your finances on a 4 year upgrade you'll be sorely disappointed.
Upgrade letters, at least on the tractor, now down at 3 1/2 years.
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Old 15th May 2018, 19:25
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: South of North
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Originally Posted by Calmcavok View Post


Upgrade letters, at least on the tractor, now down at 3 1/2 years.
Yes, but I doubt a new hire today would see the same movement. I certainly wouldn't make a financial plan and decision based on it.
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Old 15th May 2018, 20:08
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Knoteatingham
Posts: 829
Good advice Trader.

You might also ask yourself why the current time to command has reduced so much.

It has very little to do with expansion and almost everything to do with attrition.
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Old 16th May 2018, 05:16
  #35 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: .
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Originally Posted by Trader View Post
Yes, but I doubt a new hire today would see the same movement. I certainly wouldn't make a financial plan and decision based on it.
Not suggesting one should, just sharing some facts. Last summer the upgrade letters were coming at 5 1/2 years. Iím not sure that 7+ years will become the norm though, thatís been talked about for as long as I can remember, but has never come to fruition, nor looked like it. Will it in the future? Who knows?! Too many variables and possibilities for me to guess.
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Old 16th May 2018, 06:43
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Sandpit
Posts: 16
Thumbs up

Originally Posted by crewdude View Post
Hello from CYYZ

I was really hoping to put 3,500 away. If that's not doable not sure i can be convinced by myself. Dont know why I would assume its manageable tho?? Yes I'm aware of the going out life. Its the same everywhere. But at a salary of 7,000k usd (lets use this number to be conservative) you would think after a car payment, insurance, gas, bla bla bla bla you could count on that everywhere month???

Fellow Pilots, thanks for all this amazing information. Please keep in coming. You guys are awesome.
You can save 3,500$ monthly provided you are single or with a family on a strict budget. Don't get me wrong. Most probably you will see that saving only after the first few months (furnitures, car, etc...)
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Old 16th May 2018, 07:32
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Top of the World
Posts: 137
Single FO - been saving $5k a month for several years now. Very easy if you stay away from boats and hookers.

Lifestyle inflation will kill you out here. Keep grounded.

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Old 16th May 2018, 13:21
  #38 (permalink)  
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Join Date: Dec 2016
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Originally Posted by Xulu View Post
Single FO - been saving $5k a month for several years now. Very easy if you stay away from boats and hookers.

Lifestyle inflation will kill you out here. Keep grounded.

Company accommodations or your renting off site?
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Old 19th May 2018, 03:59
  #39 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Dubai
Posts: 19
It will take you about a day to realise here that there is more to life than money! Trying flying through the night... and then on arrival at your company provided accommodation the barrage of jack hammering kicks off at 530am directly outside your bedroom, and if you're not prepared to purchase property here in Dubai there is nothing you can do about it!!! ... and the company is not interested!!! my bags are being packed as we speak!!!
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