EK pilot shortage admitted by TC
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Yes it’s been proposed by many a manager who has passed through the system only to be shot down.
This time it’s different - the Freighter contract (I use that word loosely) - was a dip in the water.
I don’t believe they have any other choice now - but pride over logic usually prevails in these parts.
This time it’s different - the Freighter contract (I use that word loosely) - was a dip in the water.
I don’t believe they have any other choice now - but pride over logic usually prevails in these parts.
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They want the money spent in Dubai...get half the salary back into the Dubai economy rather than lose 100perc of it being spent overseas. Thats why off shore bases will NEVER happen.
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They want the money spent in Dubai...get half the salary back into the Dubai economy rather than lose 100perc of it being spent overseas. Thats why off shore bases will NEVER happen.[/QUOTE]
There are approx 4000 pilots in Emirates, lets say half of them (2000) are interested in a commuting contract and will spend approx 4000 Euros less then their colleagues a month inside UAE it makes it around 96 million Euros per year, sure a lot of money but there are 2,5 million residents and god knows how many tourists! (less than 0,1% of the population are the 2000 pilots we are talking about) a piss in Mississippi! Just imagine how much money they are loosing by not having enough pilots and CC? They are stupid and proud thats it!
There are approx 4000 pilots in Emirates, lets say half of them (2000) are interested in a commuting contract and will spend approx 4000 Euros less then their colleagues a month inside UAE it makes it around 96 million Euros per year, sure a lot of money but there are 2,5 million residents and god knows how many tourists! (less than 0,1% of the population are the 2000 pilots we are talking about) a piss in Mississippi! Just imagine how much money they are loosing by not having enough pilots and CC? They are stupid and proud thats it!
Many years ago a British business advising company was paid a considerable sum, for what must have been several minutes of work, that proved based pilots would be a huge cost and lost flexibility rather than non based pilots. These findings have also been used to avoid commuting contracts.
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Maybe that same company, for an even more considerable sum, could spend a few more seconds of its invaluable work to prove that a lack of pilots could be an equally huge cost and even more lost flexibility.
But in this region it would cry for a culprit, so .....
But in this region it would cry for a culprit, so .....
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There is no way imho, even in light of the desperate crew shortages that EK now faces, that basings will ever be seriously considered.
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Basings - no, agreed.
But legally the Freighter contract is a template that they are obviously comfortable with. It’s not an overseas base, purely days off.
Just tweak it. Firm seat r/t, and less days on ratio.
Plenty of takers.
But legally the Freighter contract is a template that they are obviously comfortable with. It’s not an overseas base, purely days off.
Just tweak it. Firm seat r/t, and less days on ratio.
Plenty of takers.
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People have to stop thinking basings. As mentioned the freighter is a good template. That being said don't expect much from STC. Funny how no one that knows someone who know s someone who claims to know the profit share .
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As others have already said it, it does not need to be a "base" with all what that means, reverse roster is not illegal is it? (anybody with more info on this?)
Chinese do it all the time! Or at least a good roster, 10 on 7 off or something like that with confirmed tickets or at least be able to use the jumpseat. They would be covered with pilots like Justin Bieber is with teenage girls!
Chinese do it all the time! Or at least a good roster, 10 on 7 off or something like that with confirmed tickets or at least be able to use the jumpseat. They would be covered with pilots like Justin Bieber is with teenage girls!
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In theory, yes. But the way these things tend to go is that, first, the relevant tax authority decides you are resident for tax purposes and, secondly, there is resistance to the reverse rostering system by, and representation from, other unionised airlines who feel that their members jobs, terms, conditions and benefits are at risk of being undercut by non union airlines operating from within their country - even though it may be called reverse rostering.
Before you know where you are, either an employee has decided to try to claim the protection of the local labor laws, or other airline union representation has forced the reverse rostering practice to be cancelled.
The only airline I know that seems to make a success of it is Korean who, correct me if I am wrong, pay your Korean tax for you. As income in UAE is still (for the moment) tax free, there is likely to be a substantial tax burden on reverse rostered bases and people who pay tax tend to demand representation.
Before you know where you are, either an employee has decided to try to claim the protection of the local labor laws, or other airline union representation has forced the reverse rostering practice to be cancelled.
The only airline I know that seems to make a success of it is Korean who, correct me if I am wrong, pay your Korean tax for you. As income in UAE is still (for the moment) tax free, there is likely to be a substantial tax burden on reverse rostered bases and people who pay tax tend to demand representation.
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There's room for that in the actual conditions, without the feared basings.
- Get back to 75h as OT baseline
- Include a new request for 75, 85 or 95 hours rostering. Up to 85 a nice OT compensation, up to 95 a huge OT comp.
- Take out the punitive restriction on consecutive days off and include a request to group d/o with remaining leave ( e.g. 7 + 5).
With this possibility, you might see a lot of pilots who previously moaned when rostered 95h wishing for that, because it pays well, and less pressing 2, because it will be self requested. At the same time others will wish for 75h and group d/o+l and be able to go home and be happy as well. This may change on a monthly base and granted according seniority.
This mix might even attenuate the actual lack of noses, but most certainly reduce the attrition.
It all comes down to have some competent guys come up with an intelligent solution.
(unfortunately therein lies the main problem at EK ... )
- Get back to 75h as OT baseline
- Include a new request for 75, 85 or 95 hours rostering. Up to 85 a nice OT compensation, up to 95 a huge OT comp.
- Take out the punitive restriction on consecutive days off and include a request to group d/o with remaining leave ( e.g. 7 + 5).
With this possibility, you might see a lot of pilots who previously moaned when rostered 95h wishing for that, because it pays well, and less pressing 2, because it will be self requested. At the same time others will wish for 75h and group d/o+l and be able to go home and be happy as well. This may change on a monthly base and granted according seniority.
This mix might even attenuate the actual lack of noses, but most certainly reduce the attrition.
It all comes down to have some competent guys come up with an intelligent solution.
(unfortunately therein lies the main problem at EK ... )
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There's room for that in the actual conditions, without the feared basings.
- Get back to 75h as OT baseline
- Include a new request for 75, 85 or 95 hours rostering. Up to 85 a nice OT compensation, up to 95 a huge OT comp.
- Take out the punitive restriction on consecutive days off and include a request to group d/o with remaining leave ( e.g. 7 + 5).
With this possibility, you might see a lot of pilots who previously moaned when rostered 95h wishing for that, because it pays well, and less pressing 2, because it will be self requested. At the same time others will wish for 75h and group d/o+l and be able to go home and be happy as well. This may change on a monthly base and granted according seniority.
This mix might even attenuate the actual lack of noses, but most certainly reduce the attrition.
It all comes down to have some competent guys come up with an intelligent solution.
(unfortunately therein lies the main problem at EK ... )
- Get back to 75h as OT baseline
- Include a new request for 75, 85 or 95 hours rostering. Up to 85 a nice OT compensation, up to 95 a huge OT comp.
- Take out the punitive restriction on consecutive days off and include a request to group d/o with remaining leave ( e.g. 7 + 5).
With this possibility, you might see a lot of pilots who previously moaned when rostered 95h wishing for that, because it pays well, and less pressing 2, because it will be self requested. At the same time others will wish for 75h and group d/o+l and be able to go home and be happy as well. This may change on a monthly base and granted according seniority.
This mix might even attenuate the actual lack of noses, but most certainly reduce the attrition.
It all comes down to have some competent guys come up with an intelligent solution.
(unfortunately therein lies the main problem at EK ... )
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This is the problem with a discussion like this, in the end everybody has their own agenda. That's why a union is so important because it unites individual agenda's into coherent, considered and reasonable solution's for the company to work with.
Last edited by polax52; 15th Apr 2018 at 02:52.
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The closest you might get is some form of Emirates Pilots Association which can liaise with the company but there would never be any negotiation. And the company would take all the positive spin from such a situation by advertising how enlightened and employee aware they are, while giving absolutely nothing back.
Its the same when you get a call asking you to work on your day off. If you are daft enough to agree, EK logs all the data and next time they want a FTL Annex Variation they go to the GCAA and say 'How can we have a fatigue problem? Our pilots are fit to fly on days off!'
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This is the problem with a discussion like this, in the end everybody has their own agenda
One thing is for sure: The local mentality does not know what win-win effectively means. They really believe that if someone else wins only a tiny little bit, it must have been taken away from their own win.
Stupidity is the last thing that gets extinct.
Last edited by glofish; 15th Apr 2018 at 09:11.
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In theory, yes. But the way these things tend to go is that, first, the relevant tax authority decides you are resident for tax purposes and, secondly, there is resistance to the reverse rostering system by, and representation from, other unionised airlines who feel that their members jobs, terms, conditions and benefits are at risk of being undercut by non union airlines operating from within their country - even though it may be called reverse rostering.
Before you know where you are, either an employee has decided to try to claim the protection of the local labor laws, or other airline union representation has forced the reverse rostering practice to be cancelled.
The only airline I know that seems to make a success of it is Korean who, correct me if I am wrong, pay your Korean tax for you. As income in UAE is still (for the moment) tax free, there is likely to be a substantial tax burden on reverse rostered bases and people who pay tax tend to demand representation.
Before you know where you are, either an employee has decided to try to claim the protection of the local labor laws, or other airline union representation has forced the reverse rostering practice to be cancelled.
The only airline I know that seems to make a success of it is Korean who, correct me if I am wrong, pay your Korean tax for you. As income in UAE is still (for the moment) tax free, there is likely to be a substantial tax burden on reverse rostered bases and people who pay tax tend to demand representation.
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Reverse rostering is nothing more than offering extended layovers, as ones base remains unchanged. There is no change to ones employment terms and conditions nor protection (or lack of) from any union. Taxation affairs will still be up to the individual to declare and it is very feasible that one may not live in the same country where they end or start their reversed pairing anyway.
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I guess it comes down to where your reserve rostered 'base' is and what the financial and other factors might be.
Certainly can work in theory.
Certainly can work in theory.