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EK pilot shortage admitted by TC

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EK pilot shortage admitted by TC

Old 12th Apr 2018, 08:50
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Originally Posted by Joker11
Yes. You go direct to Eurowings. Austria was hiring for their fleet and Swiss just got new labour contracts.
So the legacy carrier, Lufthansa, is not looking for pilots its the LCC that need them.

I agree there is a pilot shortage. The pilot shortage is with LCC, companies that pay bellow market value, practice bad management and run on the smell of a oily rag. If you look for pilot jobs, those companies that fall under the above descriptions, do indeed need pilots. US legacy carriers are an exception to the rule.
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Old 12th Apr 2018, 11:17
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Originally Posted by Mango
So the legacy carrier, Lufthansa, is not looking for pilots its the LCC that need them.

I agree there is a pilot shortage. The pilot shortage is with LCC, companies that pay bellow market value, practice bad management and run on the smell of a oily rag. If you look for pilot jobs, those companies that fall under the above descriptions, do indeed need pilots. US legacy carriers are an exception to the rule.
Pretty much. Thats the latest information my mate gave me. He said you go to Eurowings and not legacy or LH classic how it is called
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Old 12th Apr 2018, 12:44
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Originally Posted by Australopithecus
Mango QF can’t hire 737 direct F/O due to the pilots' contract. They can and do however offer F/O before S/O training starts. I think around 35 new hires chose that option.

Qantas has far fewer applicants than they did ten years ago. So much so that QF is planning to start an academy to train 500 pilots/yr...200+ of whom will be for the QF group.
Who is going to train them?!
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Old 12th Apr 2018, 12:46
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Not occurred to Emirates or unacceptable to simply offer commuting contracts? With the right deal plenty of UK pilots would operate from here into the network, work for a couple of weeks, then position home for R&R.
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Old 12th Apr 2018, 12:55
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Originally Posted by Bigpants
Not occurred to Emirates or unacceptable to simply offer commuting contracts? With the right deal plenty of UK pilots would operate from here into the network, work for a couple of weeks, then position home for R&R.
Yes it’s been proposed by many a manager who has passed through the system only to be shot down.

This time it’s different - the Freighter contract (I use that word loosely) - was a dip in the water.

I don’t believe they have any other choice now - but pride over logic usually prevails in these parts.
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Old 12th Apr 2018, 13:45
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One Year facts from 1st april 2017 to 1st april 2018.
169 pilots joined and 231 left, bringing the total number from 4227 to 4164.
Attrition of 5,505 percent.
Im not aware of the total increase in fleet aircraft this year, but even with a slight increase this is quite alarming with most pilot already working to the absolute limit.
It would be very arrogant and unwise of management not to finally give in and increase TC & pay significantly. Its about time. A serious number of colleges is already in the pipeline for China.
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Old 12th Apr 2018, 13:48
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Originally Posted by Joker11
I see CPT has been reduced to two dailys. Wonder of that has to do with it...
They usually cut down CPT to 2 flights during winter and during summer in SA they increase it back to 3 flights per day.
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Old 12th Apr 2018, 15:45
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Originally Posted by Besser
One Year facts from 1st april 2017 to 1st april 2018.
169 pilots joined and 231 left, bringing the total number from 4227 to 4164.
Attrition of 5,505 percent.
Im not aware of the total increase in fleet aircraft this year, but even with a slight increase this is quite alarming with most pilot already working to the absolute limit.
It would be very arrogant and unwise of management not to finally give in and increase TC & pay significantly. Its about time. A serious number of colleges is already in the pipeline for China.
Any idea of net aircraft on property from 1/4/17 to 1/4/18 ?
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Old 12th Apr 2018, 17:31
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Originally Posted by Cantbebothered
They usually cut down CPT to 2 flights during winter and during summer in SA they increase it back to 3 flights per day.
I wasn't aware of that, thanks for pointing it out. I was looking to use EK779 for fly back to DXB. I was searching on trips and the flight wasn't available.
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Old 12th Apr 2018, 19:02
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Mango.

Lufty are looking for 380 trainers I hear🤪😁.
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Old 12th Apr 2018, 19:29
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Originally Posted by Craggenmore
Mango.

Lufty are looking for 380 trainers I hear🤪😁.
You been drinking too much whiskey again?
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Old 12th Apr 2018, 20:11
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You thought it was just FD, it gets better - there's also no CC.

We have all recently seen full flights all going short of Cabin Crew. Post it notes given to Pursers with GD's explaining we are short of crew and they must make do with -1, -2, -3. Followed by a smiley face. You probably heard them on their phones outside the cockpit pleading for additional crew until the doors were closed and they were forced to deal with it.

Talk to you Purser tomorrow, but do not dare ask for a cappuccino. They are livid.

In typical EK style, our brave leaders decided it prudent to send out an email on Thursday at 1500 (just before a long weekend) to CC and state that crew complement is to be officially reduced on flights but implicitly reminded everyone that the high standards are to be maintained.

On 2 Class A/C 1 SFS officially gone and Purser to take their role and responsibilities in Business Class. On ULR 1 FG1 gone, Purser to take their role and responsibility.

Pursers to take the slack of reduced crew.

Headcount ratio at EGHQ vs operational staff skewed too high compared to any other airlines already, and now our bread and butter - customer service - the worlds best airline has decided to reduce the amount of crew onboard. Why?

Problems retaining operational employees, while maintaining full employment in an inefficient back office full of DSVPs and their followers is bound to end in tears. Why is everyone leaving? We all know the answer. The question is, who will take responsibility, who will take charge to ensure it doesn't continue? EGHQ is full of MBAs but no one with a Mbackbone. Grow up, this is what you are being paid for: Analyse, suggest improvements that cost nothing, implement change - fix things - otherwise stop wasting space and just adding to costs.

We are an airline! If you do not take care of and respect the operational employees, who actually do the work - flying the planes and serving customers - what will you be left with soon? If we all leave, you are out of a job. Think about that.

Start treating us as people and remember you need us more than we need you......

How can you possibly run an international airline that promotes itself as the best in the world and be short of pilots and cabin crew. What does this say about the management....shame on you....

Last edited by Econ101; 12th Apr 2018 at 20:32. Reason: Alcohol - spelling
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Old 12th Apr 2018, 20:14
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Alcohol to sleep.

Caffeine to stay awake.

The Emirates way 👍🏼😎
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Old 12th Apr 2018, 20:30
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Tankengine
Who is going to train them?!
I didn’t say it was going to happen...I wrote that they were planning it. The whole scheme strikes me as a Joyce thought bubble that took on a life of its own before actual experienced aviation people pointed out the many hurdles.

They just want to have a steady stream of applicants to ensure the pilots never get the upper hand.
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Old 13th Apr 2018, 05:39
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Very well said
Originally Posted by Econ101
You thought it was just FD, it gets better - there's also no CC.

We have all recently seen full flights all going short of Cabin Crew. Post it notes given to Pursers with GD's explaining we are short of crew and they must make do with -1, -2, -3. Followed by a smiley face. You probably heard them on their phones outside the cockpit pleading for additional crew until the doors were closed and they were forced to deal with it.

Talk to you Purser tomorrow, but do not dare ask for a cappuccino. They are livid.

In typical EK style, our brave leaders decided it prudent to send out an email on Thursday at 1500 (just before a long weekend) to CC and state that crew complement is to be officially reduced on flights but implicitly reminded everyone that the high standards are to be maintained.

On 2 Class A/C 1 SFS officially gone and Purser to take their role and responsibilities in Business Class. On ULR 1 FG1 gone, Purser to take their role and responsibility.

Pursers to take the slack of reduced crew.

Headcount ratio at EGHQ vs operational staff skewed too high compared to any other airlines already, and now our bread and butter - customer service - the worlds best airline has decided to reduce the amount of crew onboard. Why?

Problems retaining operational employees, while maintaining full employment in an inefficient back office full of DSVPs and their followers is bound to end in tears. Why is everyone leaving? We all know the answer. The question is, who will take responsibility, who will take charge to ensure it doesn't continue? EGHQ is full of MBAs but no one with a Mbackbone. Grow up, this is what you are being paid for: Analyse, suggest improvements that cost nothing, implement change - fix things - otherwise stop wasting space and just adding to costs.

We are an airline! If you do not take care of and respect the operational employees, who actually do the work - flying the planes and serving customers - what will you be left with soon? If we all leave, you are out of a job. Think about that.

Start treating us as people and remember you need us more than we need you......

How can you possibly run an international airline that promotes itself as the best in the world and be short of pilots and cabin crew. What does this say about the management....shame on you....
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Old 13th Apr 2018, 06:18
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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Econ101.... precisely. CC morale is already extremely low, this is not going to help matters.

The Purser on A380 is already part of the J/C service, and all hands are needed on deck just to get the service done (let alone to the pretty impossible standards EK set) having them take on extra responsibility is going to add even more pressure.

Be sure to highlight the extra time that will be needed when operating with less crew for security checks. They are already very rushed; some crew will be required to double up their areas and some need 20-25 minutes minimum if they are to be done correctly. Already a sore point, this will get worse.
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Old 13th Apr 2018, 06:29
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Great post 101, you’ve nailed it, and please let me add to it if I may.

I noted with interest the latest missive from fleet encouraging openness and encouraging interaction, in a way the author is merely transferring his thoughts as to how he expects circumstances to progress, much like it possibly could back in the real world, so here is my response in the context of 101’s excellent post.

Dear Mr B.

Undoubtedly by now you are gaining an in-depth understanding of the complexities and differences between your current role and your previous roles in Luton and Swords, it is admirable that you have shown thus far a willingness to communicate your thoughts and actions in a way that shows some transparency.
I hope that as time has progressed you are becoming aware through your own methods and experience of the true nature of the organisation you now receive remuneration from. I ask you to compare the leadership style and effectiveness of your previous employer compared to the present, I’d also ask you to then view this in the context of pilot retention, recruitment and sentiment towards those that impose their missives, thoughts, whims and punitive prejudice towards the pilot workforce.
If you can achieve this, I hope as many others also do, that you will gain an understanding as to why a great many of us view anything emanating from HQ as merely lip service and animal manure designed to deflect from the key issues of ineffective leadership and autocratic ineptitude.
Mr B, until significant changes take place regarding attitudes from the top down, this growing crisis of a lack of Pilots and Cabin Crew will merely deepen as will the negative perceptions of our employer amongst potentially valuable future candidates for the roles that are needed to be filled.
In conclusion, your immediate predecessors have begun their roles in much the same way as yourself, vigour and transparency is soon replaced with compliance and non communication, until such time as change takes place get used to more resignations and a lack of suitable candidates.

Regards

MM
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Old 13th Apr 2018, 07:16
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Originally Posted by Monarch Man
Great post 101, you’ve nailed it, and please let me add to it if I may.

I noted with interest the latest missive from fleet encouraging openness and encouraging interaction, in a way the author is merely transferring his thoughts as to how he expects circumstances to progress, much like it possibly could back in the real world, so here is my response in the context of 101’s excellent post.

Dear Mr B.

Undoubtedly by now you are gaining an in-depth understanding of the complexities and differences between your current role and your previous roles in Luton and Swords, it is admirable that you have shown thus far a willingness to communicate your thoughts and actions in a way that shows some transparency.
I hope that as time has progressed you are becoming aware through your own methods and experience of the true nature of the organisation you now receive remuneration from. I ask you to compare the leadership style and effectiveness of your previous employer compared to the present, I’d also ask you to then view this in the context of pilot retention, recruitment and sentiment towards those that impose their missives, thoughts, whims and punitive prejudice towards the pilot workforce.
If you can achieve this, I hope as many others also do, that you will gain an understanding as to why a great many of us view anything emanating from HQ as merely lip service and animal manure designed to deflect from the key issues of ineffective leadership and autocratic ineptitude.
Mr B, until significant changes take place regarding attitudes from the top down, this growing crisis of a lack of Pilots and Cabin Crew will merely deepen as will the negative perceptions of our employer amongst potentially valuable future candidates for the roles that are needed to be filled.
In conclusion, your immediate predecessors have begun their roles in much the same way as yourself, vigour and transparency is soon replaced with compliance and non communication, until such time as change takes place get used to more resignations and a lack of suitable candidates.

Regards

MM

Brilliant MM.

Your letter should be forwarded to Mr B immediately, as well as being printed multiple times and stuck on the toilet walls of every bog in EGHQ.
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Old 13th Apr 2018, 08:42
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The world “According to Tim”:

- Attacks from the US airlines about subsidies for EK are unfair and untrue, because the real cause is EK’s superior product and better pricing.
- Superior product and better pricing from a very bad neighbor are unfair, because they are subsidised.
- Pilot shortage is only due to unfair better conditions at the competition.
- The competition is merely jealous, because their managers were so incompetent in not ordering the highly profitable A380.
- EK can’t get these money making machines on line fast enough.
- Recruitment problems are only due to the false and fake portrayal of the fantastic perks and conditions by EK’s ungrateful in house FD and CC.
- If countries like Canada or Germany would completely liberalise Ek’s access to all of their airports, the GDP of these countries would jump to unknown heights thanks to EK’s contribution.
- If STC wouldn’t have been knighted and HH’s doped horses would’t have been re-allowed to Ascot, Rolls Royce would have gone bankrupt ……

Last edited by glofish; 13th Apr 2018 at 08:53.
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Old 13th Apr 2018, 08:45
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Let's be realistic chaps,

Pilot shortage is all over the place and all airlines are affected or lets say most airlines are.. There is a lot of wannabes who have the minimum 250 HRS but jobless due to the 1500 HRS rule and jet time.. Companies are taking advantage of that and ripping people of with Type rating and line training packages.

EK , they should improve their offer but they wont be able to change a thing from bad things list.

They are investing in locals although..I think they should give others a chance .
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