EK 25/3 Pilot forum Agenda .pdf
Join Date: Apr 2011
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If they don't know why people are leaving , it is very scary and they should not be in charge of a huge company like EK...
I am sure they know but they don't want to do anything about it because here the " if you don't like it , you can leave " is the rule.
They have been able , untill now , to find pilots to replace the one leaving so why should they change something and show a sign of weakness
Don't forget the local pride ; it's like on the road , using your indicator is a sign of weakness for most of them so they don't use it...
I am sure they know but they don't want to do anything about it because here the " if you don't like it , you can leave " is the rule.
They have been able , untill now , to find pilots to replace the one leaving so why should they change something and show a sign of weakness
Don't forget the local pride ; it's like on the road , using your indicator is a sign of weakness for most of them so they don't use it...
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KL, I’m not saying it isn’t an issue. It’s just not a big issue. The whole room collectively rolls it’s eyes when people bring up minor stuff and we create the perception of being cheap. It’s all about knowing how to play it, I totally agree that it’s an issue that needs addressed but perhaps not at the first forum where we should be presenting a united front on big issues we all agree on.
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The forum will be like all other management forums in all airlines. A 30sec question followed by a 10min response. After 90mins the management will leave saying they’ve engaged with the work force. This is good, but not what you want i think.
If it was me I’d go for the relevance aspect already suggested by someone above. With almost 30000 crew we are a large part of the organization. I’d phrase my questions like this....
Emirates is a world leader in innovation and as part of that company we would like to lead the industry with pilot user technology. Replacing the current EPT with the latest iPad running the latest software would both improve our ability to work and report in real time, but would also allow us to improve departmental communication. What are your views on this?
Emirates is a world leader in terms of size and reach. It looks for the best of the best in terms of passenger service and facilities. To match that it needs a top level of experienced pilots to crew the fleet, and it has become apparent over the last few years that this experience is now coming with an increased cost. Do you think that experience and crew numbers will need a higher level of financial renumeration to attract the crew to match Emirates needs?
With its Global reach Emirates covers the world. It’s multicultural workforce that come from all over the world is a defining element of this. As crew we would like a greater ability to control our ability to make use of this world wide network both through leave, roster selection and post roster release swapping. What do you think you could do to achieve this?
Just my viewpoint though.
If it was me I’d go for the relevance aspect already suggested by someone above. With almost 30000 crew we are a large part of the organization. I’d phrase my questions like this....
Emirates is a world leader in innovation and as part of that company we would like to lead the industry with pilot user technology. Replacing the current EPT with the latest iPad running the latest software would both improve our ability to work and report in real time, but would also allow us to improve departmental communication. What are your views on this?
Emirates is a world leader in terms of size and reach. It looks for the best of the best in terms of passenger service and facilities. To match that it needs a top level of experienced pilots to crew the fleet, and it has become apparent over the last few years that this experience is now coming with an increased cost. Do you think that experience and crew numbers will need a higher level of financial renumeration to attract the crew to match Emirates needs?
With its Global reach Emirates covers the world. It’s multicultural workforce that come from all over the world is a defining element of this. As crew we would like a greater ability to control our ability to make use of this world wide network both through leave, roster selection and post roster release swapping. What do you think you could do to achieve this?
Just my viewpoint though.
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I don't know when you left, but these guys have been called more than a year after leaving ek.
and obviously I don't even know what are their guidelines for doing it, so maybe that are not even contacting everyone.
KL
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The forum will be like all other management forums in all airlines. A 30sec question followed by a 10min response. After 90mins the management will leave saying they’ve engaged with the work force. This is good, but not what you want i think.
If it was me I’d go for the relevance aspect already suggested by someone above. With almost 30000 crew we are a large part of the organization. I’d phrase my questions like this....
Emirates is a world leader in innovation and as part of that company we would like to lead the industry with pilot user technology. Replacing the current EPT with the latest iPad running the latest software would both improve our ability to work and report in real time, but would also allow us to improve departmental communication. What are your views on this?
Emirates is a world leader in terms of size and reach. It looks for the best of the best in terms of passenger service and facilities. To match that it needs a top level of experienced pilots to crew the fleet, and it has become apparent over the last few years that this experience is now coming with an increased cost. Do you think that experience and crew numbers will need a higher level of financial renumeration to attract the crew to match Emirates needs?
With its Global reach Emirates covers the world. It’s multicultural workforce that come from all over the world is a defining element of this. As crew we would like a greater ability to control our ability to make use of this world wide network both through leave, roster selection and post roster release swapping. What do you think you could do to achieve this?
Just my viewpoint though.
If it was me I’d go for the relevance aspect already suggested by someone above. With almost 30000 crew we are a large part of the organization. I’d phrase my questions like this....
Emirates is a world leader in innovation and as part of that company we would like to lead the industry with pilot user technology. Replacing the current EPT with the latest iPad running the latest software would both improve our ability to work and report in real time, but would also allow us to improve departmental communication. What are your views on this?
Emirates is a world leader in terms of size and reach. It looks for the best of the best in terms of passenger service and facilities. To match that it needs a top level of experienced pilots to crew the fleet, and it has become apparent over the last few years that this experience is now coming with an increased cost. Do you think that experience and crew numbers will need a higher level of financial renumeration to attract the crew to match Emirates needs?
With its Global reach Emirates covers the world. It’s multicultural workforce that come from all over the world is a defining element of this. As crew we would like a greater ability to control our ability to make use of this world wide network both through leave, roster selection and post roster release swapping. What do you think you could do to achieve this?
Just my viewpoint though.
PPPPPPP....... your profile location says Ëarth"............. but im not so sure..
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well, I personally know some pilots who were called.
I don't know when you left, but these guys have been called more than a year after leaving ek.
and obviously I don't even know what are their guidelines for doing it, so maybe that are not even contacting everyone.
I don't know when you left, but these guys have been called more than a year after leaving ek.
and obviously I don't even know what are their guidelines for doing it, so maybe that are not even contacting everyone.
It has even got to the point I’m told of finger pointing and in one case a screaming match that caused alarm on the floor it took place on.
Wether this will change anything when the cultural deficiency of not being willing to admit to a mistake is considered sacrosanct, we shall see I guess, personally I can’t see any admission of an error anytime soon.
I didn’t get a call either.
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No dog in the fight but would U.S. style, or long haul European airlines, rostering improve retention or hiring? The U.S. pilots at EK would be a good resource to ask about U.S. style improvements that would work in EK’s system.
Open access to the Jumpseat for commuting, PBS system for bidding (seniority based), trip trading system, allowing trips to be stacked against each other, minimum hours credit per day, etc. Depending upon the trip length and sign-in times, with mostly long haul flying, you could end up with 15-21 days off per month. And local guys might fly the turns maximiizng the hours per day credited.
It’s the exception to follow the entire month of the schedule you were assigned in the U.S. Access to a trip trading system allows that. One man’s vinegar is another man’s wine.
With front loading a month and back loading the following month you’re able to get 8-20 day breaks every other month if you desire.
Because of the different scheduling systems approx half of all U.S. pilots commute and few actually flew their entire assigned schedule.
Drop the monthly bids down to 80-85 hrs, while allowing higher pickup limits, with Jumpseat access for commuting and active trip trading might make EK one of the most desirable non U.S. jobs for Europe based pilots.
The sort of stuff a union would propose but we know that’s not happening.
For your sakes hopefully supply and demand problems force meaningful changes at EK.
Open access to the Jumpseat for commuting, PBS system for bidding (seniority based), trip trading system, allowing trips to be stacked against each other, minimum hours credit per day, etc. Depending upon the trip length and sign-in times, with mostly long haul flying, you could end up with 15-21 days off per month. And local guys might fly the turns maximiizng the hours per day credited.
It’s the exception to follow the entire month of the schedule you were assigned in the U.S. Access to a trip trading system allows that. One man’s vinegar is another man’s wine.
With front loading a month and back loading the following month you’re able to get 8-20 day breaks every other month if you desire.
Because of the different scheduling systems approx half of all U.S. pilots commute and few actually flew their entire assigned schedule.
Drop the monthly bids down to 80-85 hrs, while allowing higher pickup limits, with Jumpseat access for commuting and active trip trading might make EK one of the most desirable non U.S. jobs for Europe based pilots.
The sort of stuff a union would propose but we know that’s not happening.
For your sakes hopefully supply and demand problems force meaningful changes at EK.
Last edited by misd-agin; 25th Mar 2018 at 22:19.
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misd, rostering is one of the things that does need to be improved to help retain and recruit pilots. The trouble is there aren't enough pilots now to enable the system you describe and because of that we can't get new people to join. Hence there aren't enough pilots and so on and so on.
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misd, rostering is one of the things that does need to be improved to help retain and recruit pilots. The trouble is there aren't enough pilots now to enable the system you describe and because of that we can't get new people to join. Hence there aren't enough pilots and so on and so on.
Quite right Geordie,
Emirates has held off from giving a substantial pay rise for so long that they have well and truly painted themselves into a corner.
It's not rocket science to realise that the company MUST address both retention and recruitment and that the only way left to do that is with $.
And, to be honest, the negative inertia from most employees is now such that it would have to be a VERY substantial increase in $ to have any effect.
Local culture will therefore be tested like never before as they are reaching the point where they have to either lose face or run the airline into the ground.
It would seem even present recruiting numbers, as large and unrealistic of being met as they are, still only plan on 30 days leave per year. Until they remove this type of thinking it ain't gonna change.
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It would seem even present recruiting numbers, as large and unrealistic of being met as they are, still only plan on 30 days leave per year. Until they remove this type of thinking it ain't gonna change.
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Questions Asked?
Not to water-down the major issues at all...
I’m just curious -
Did anyone ask them to justify the glaring lack of information to the pilot body and, even the rest of the company (except the cabin crew), regarding the death-on-duty incident in EBB? I find it beyond belief that not a single notification or simple statement of fact (with the required “we await the results of the official investigation”) has been uttered by any senior leadership figure from HH down.
I’m just curious -
Did anyone ask them to justify the glaring lack of information to the pilot body and, even the rest of the company (except the cabin crew), regarding the death-on-duty incident in EBB? I find it beyond belief that not a single notification or simple statement of fact (with the required “we await the results of the official investigation”) has been uttered by any senior leadership figure from HH down.
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I'm surprised that most of the FO's I fly with who have only been here for max 3 years expect massive changes from the forum just held today. Did you not investigate before joining EK? Nothing much since then changed dramatically.
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Did anyone ask them to justify the glaring lack of information to the pilot body and, even the rest of the company (except the cabin crew), regarding the death-on-duty incident in EBB? I find it beyond belief that not a single notification or simple statement of fact (with the required “we await the results of the official investigation”) has been uttered by any senior leadership figure from HH down.
I am sure Corp Comms will be wanting to ensure that EBB is treated no differently.
Not that I agree with the above however!