donpizmeov

Agreed. Give some control over roster by getting ride of those stupid rules and life will improve quickly and greatly. Also man the individual fleets so all leave can be taken and attrition will decrease.
But as gloi has stated. ATC is the instigator and he ain't about to change a thing.

The Outlaw

Quit rocking the boat and let the company die the slow undignified death that management has set forth. Who are you to go against their plan anyway?

RK Blue sky

The sooner the company dies the better off so many people will be. They might not know it but it’s true.

motojet

In my opinion way too many suggestions in the letter. Too easy for the company to grant a few of the minor requests, ignore the important major requests and then say, "See, we're doing a lot for you pilots". Stick to a few major points.

felixthecat

A few points...

It is great that someone has taken the trouble to write out this PDF documenting the points that they feel should be raised at the forum, however..... I believe that this was taken from opinions gathered from 1300 of 4000+ pilots. It was the first I had heard or seen of it so I am one of the 68% who had no knowledge of something purporting to be on my behalf.

Whilst many of the points have validity, there is far too much niff naff and trivia for this stage of 'negotiation'. Giving the management a million options to claim improvement to the terms and conditions whilst skirting around the main issues of pay, leave, rostering and time off does us no good. Examples of irrelevance at this stage include EFBs, no training over Christmas etc etc, stick to the bones of the matter.

fatbus

Some of the points make the pilot group look childish. As stated already sick to the big issues , rosters / manpower/ pay, everything else will follow.

777-200LR

Felixthecat is spot on!

AfricanSkies

Very true. Releasing such a ridiculous list of demands in public will work against your aims.

The 5 major areas should have been identified and specific figures justified with rational arguments, which reflect the bottom line.

Calculate how much the VAT and other risen expenses costs the pilot, have a number. Calculate how much the company would have to pay for such a pay rise in toto. Offset it against the costs of staff turnover.

The bottom line is that unless the Company is feeling financial pain or corporate image deterioration, it has no motive to increase compensation and leave whilst reducing workload.

If I were a manager at EK I would dismiss this letter with significant irritation to say the least.

aussiefarmer

We all know maturity and common sense are only attained at age 35 (fleet specific). Surely an underage career FO has composed this.

SunNFun

Pretty amazing to see the desire to self censor a starting point to a negotiating based on what you think is achievable.

The Stockholm syndrome is very strong in EK Pilots and you only realize this once you're a year or two removed from it.

Panther 88

NEGOTIATING? When has anything been negotiated in the ME? You don't negotiate with this company. There are no table openers to give and take. Be realistic man. The only give and take is.....you give, they take. Oh, and is there a committee that will represent pilots' wishes? Who elected the negotiation team? Contract study group? Informational picketing? ID lanyards stating, "I support the EPA" (Emirates Pilot Association)?

But also stating that going is a waste of a day off, is the same folly. Having worked in management before many of you were born, if a meeting such as this is called and no one came......"well they're not as upset/mad whatever as the noise makers on the Prune make it seem".

radial090

Dear all,

If a company was serious about making changes to its employee benefits, they would send out proper questionnaires, collect data and make cost effective changes to improve employee satisfaction.

A couple hours in an auditorium does not allow time or focus to seriously discuss any issues.

It may be entertaining for managers to be on stage fielding questions from the hostile mobs, employees vent and feel better but this is not how serious change in large complex organisations gets done.

If you get a chance, attend the forum and vigorously voice your concerns, in addition everyone can email our relevant manager and HR continually with your personal list of concerns on a daily or weekly basis.

777-200LR

If they don’t keep it simple and to the bigger issues then expect the May email to look something like this:

-We are issuing all pilots with a tie clip. Many of you were concerned about your ties flapping in the wind from the bus to the aircraft.
-We have approved the “Avoid to Fly With Staff#”. We don’t want anyone flying with a colleague they don’t want to.
-We have informed IT to come up with a fix to enable the EBT to have a shade of blue as many of you were concerned about your eyes getting tired during the 0001-0559 time period.
-We have also enabled a bid option to have a Christmas free PPC. However due to bid limitations, you can only select LOWEST option for this bid.

Naturally as there were a large number of requests, it could not be possible review them all. We thank you for your support and see you next year!

Fuzuma

Whilst reading that reply, you’ll be subjected to a morose tune played on the worlds smallest violin.......stolen from Yorkshire Puddings’ post.......

Enos

At least LTF got the ball rolling so we shouldn't shoot the guy for trying.

Like it's been said for those who manage to attend keep it simple and stick to the main points, Salary Vs Roster, remember how many emails we got about getting new BMWs it was a distraction from the main problems.

Bottom line we are not the only airline that needs a lot of pilots this year, weather they are making money or not if they don't attract pilots by upping their conditions they will be no different to Ryan and Norwegian, they couldn't crew their aircraft last year.

What did happen to the guy at Ryan Air who they blamed for the lack of pilots, hence cancelled flights or was it something to do with all the pilots needing to take leave at the same time??

Calmcavok

The document is fine and well, if we were working for a different airline in a different country with a proper negotiating team. We’re not

KISS

For me
> Pay
> Roster
> Seniority in bidding preferences
> Full 42 days of leave
> Relax the restrictive eswap/roster build rules

High Energy

The same was send to flydubai management. Same issues, same results. Blank stares and nothing happens.

GKOC41

It's a Christmas list more like but plenty of stuff which you'd have half a chance for if you had a Union....
Some of the comments on CRC and 24hour layovers are more like common sense or FRMS if you had a good system in place

yardman

R-E-S-P-E-C-T.

As long as the company continues to lack respect for its employees nothing will ever change. Everything else is simply trying to put lipstick on a pig.

The Turtle

64 posts about 2 women flying and only 43 about your professional career speaks for itself....

Focus, gentlemen!