Angry cabin crew (forum rumor)
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Givemewings, please tell us how medical benefits isn’t a huge issue affecting the entire crew population? This was changed overnight and screwed all the cabin crew collectively for Co-payment and reduced cover. Maybe you can’t see how important this is? This is the main reason why they went to the forum and rosters and so on was to be discussed at a subsequent forum. Effectively making staff unpaid when they get pregnant is deplorable as well and is an important part of the medical discussion. In any civilised country it would be illegal.
Why didn’t you go to the forum or are you another ex employee with an unhealthy interest in your former employer?
I think it’s fantastic the crew attended and stood up to them, respect to everyone that showed up.
Why didn’t you go to the forum or are you another ex employee with an unhealthy interest in your former employer?
I think it’s fantastic the crew attended and stood up to them, respect to everyone that showed up.
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I don't really read Pprune much nowadays. It tends to be the same people moaning about the same issues and achieving very little.
I was pleasantly surprised to hear the news that over 1,000 cabin got off their butts and tried to make a difference. I was saddened at that point to read the sarcastic critique that so often you read on here. The discussion at the beginning about percentages of cabin crew that were perhaps in Dubai, compared to the percentages that actually turned up. The thought that what was done would achieve very little.
I think all of you still working for this company should learn from what has just taken place. The cabin crew had their managers on the ropes. Their issues may not be the issues that you would necessarily negotiate or discussion, but they actually stood as one and took the bosses on. I don't see the pilots doing that.... for the most part you just sit here and pontificate about how bad things are. In the end you either leave or continue to moan. Maybe there is something to learn from this???
I was pleasantly surprised to hear the news that over 1,000 cabin got off their butts and tried to make a difference. I was saddened at that point to read the sarcastic critique that so often you read on here. The discussion at the beginning about percentages of cabin crew that were perhaps in Dubai, compared to the percentages that actually turned up. The thought that what was done would achieve very little.
I think all of you still working for this company should learn from what has just taken place. The cabin crew had their managers on the ropes. Their issues may not be the issues that you would necessarily negotiate or discussion, but they actually stood as one and took the bosses on. I don't see the pilots doing that.... for the most part you just sit here and pontificate about how bad things are. In the end you either leave or continue to moan. Maybe there is something to learn from this???
Hiflier, speedbir because it wasn't "medical benefits" that got reinstated, it was a benefit that was never given in the first place, and that all crew knew when joining was not paid. Ditto with the live out not being given at that time. It was no secret allowances stopped if crew took unpaid leave for pregnancy.
Unlike the company reducing the overall medical coverage and bringing in the 30% co-pay which was a reduction in established conditions. As I said it's good they achieved a result but I'd rather have seen a win that covered everyone (like putting medical coverage back to where it was) and getting rid of the new co-pat which is still quite expensive for the average crew.
My worry is the management will concede this one, to quell the fuss then stall on everything else as they always have. And the crew go on getting hammered with high hour rosters and high medical costs.
Hopefully there's more wins to come, and they benefit everyone, not just some.
Unlike the company reducing the overall medical coverage and bringing in the 30% co-pay which was a reduction in established conditions. As I said it's good they achieved a result but I'd rather have seen a win that covered everyone (like putting medical coverage back to where it was) and getting rid of the new co-pat which is still quite expensive for the average crew.
My worry is the management will concede this one, to quell the fuss then stall on everything else as they always have. And the crew go on getting hammered with high hour rosters and high medical costs.
Hopefully there's more wins to come, and they benefit everyone, not just some.
Last edited by givemewings; 8th Feb 2018 at 07:42.
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The Cabin Crew will likely get a lot of sympathy from those workers in HQ. I doubt they would show the same sympathy for whinging overpaid (over worked) Pilots if you turned up en mass.
I
I
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I don't really read Pprune much nowadays. It tends to be the same people moaning about the same issues and achieving very little.
I was pleasantly surprised to hear the news that over 1,000 cabin got off their butts and tried to make a difference. I was saddened at that point to read the sarcastic critique that so often you read on here. The discussion at the beginning about percentages of cabin crew that were perhaps in Dubai, compared to the percentages that actually turned up. The thought that what was done would achieve very little.
I think all of you still working for this company should learn from what has just taken place. The cabin crew had their managers on the ropes. Their issues may not be the issues that you would necessarily negotiate or discussion, but they actually stood as one and took the bosses on. I don't see the pilots doing that.... for the most part you just sit here and pontificate about how bad things are. In the end you either leave or continue to moan. Maybe there is something to learn from this???
I was pleasantly surprised to hear the news that over 1,000 cabin got off their butts and tried to make a difference. I was saddened at that point to read the sarcastic critique that so often you read on here. The discussion at the beginning about percentages of cabin crew that were perhaps in Dubai, compared to the percentages that actually turned up. The thought that what was done would achieve very little.
I think all of you still working for this company should learn from what has just taken place. The cabin crew had their managers on the ropes. Their issues may not be the issues that you would necessarily negotiate or discussion, but they actually stood as one and took the bosses on. I don't see the pilots doing that.... for the most part you just sit here and pontificate about how bad things are. In the end you either leave or continue to moan. Maybe there is something to learn from this???
How do you know that if there was an open forum to air grievances with AAR that pilots would not show up in force. Because from what happened the last time they were on offer - we did & in force - though we were restricted in numbers by Fleets commandments to 65 per sitting. They were all oversubscribed.
In Jan ‘16 TICH announced a new era in Flt Ops of ‘Open Communication’ with the introduction of MONTHLY Fleet Forums. Since then there have been 7. So in essence the Co has dialed ‘2’ on us 17 times in the last 24 months. I wonder how we would be treated if we dialed ‘2’ 17 Times in the last 24 months - I digress.
I was at one of these forums and I can tell you it was heated, pointed and downright confrontational. The pilots there spoke passionately about their grievances - too many to air here. As a result of the first four which occurred previous to May 2016 - we achieved a number of objectives which were conceded to us in the Pay Review of May/June 2016. They were:
1. Increased Steps for Snr Captains
2. Flying Pay increase
3. Ground Pay
4. Sim Pay
5. Dubai duty start 1:25 previous to Departure.
Many of us put our names forward for additional forums but were told it was restricted to those who had not yet attended.
While the above may seem minor they were important. One of the issues with smaller forums is that they can be monitored and it appeared the more passionate the individual pilots were - the more furious the note takings were from the HR ladies who were writing away. ‘Attitudinal ‘ addition to my HR file I suspect.
You ask rhetorically “Maybe there is something to learn from this?”
Yes there is - and I believe the Co will learn very fast - as they did with our Fleet Forums - no more.
Go easy on the generalizations without facts.
Xulu, C2C began as a management sanctioned group. They know it exists, IIRC there were managers in the group as well. So I doubt they're just learning of the fact that the videos are there...
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Come on Harry, you need to come on here and quickly castigate those unruly CC for showing a total lack of respect for their "leaders" and explain again why all should be grateful to be employed by EK at all.
Don't think I have ever seen Harry suggest a thing.
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I’m not sure that Harry has any agenda to be honest. He argues both sides, I think.
It’s just that he’s a patronising pragmatist... (I now await a patronisingly pragmatic reply
)
It’s just that he’s a patronising pragmatist... (I now await a patronisingly pragmatic reply
)
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We all need a Harry on a public forum like this, don't see why he has to be shot down every time he offers balance to a topic!
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Starbear
Not sure why you felt the need to make such a comment but perhaps you should stick with posting your own opinions first before rather ignorantly assuming you know mine!
I can only offer my admiration for the CC in organising such a mass meeting and for their determination to be heard. Unlike some, they were prepared to stand up and be counted, far more so than certain individuals who pervade these forums under the cover of anonymity spouting how terrible EK is...and has been for years...and years..
Well, if you're not happy with your lot, get off your backside and do something about it. Most moaners will not even have the guts to spend an hour on an e-mail for fear of a personal management backlash, but will happily post on a public forum cajoling and persuading others to do their dirty work for them. They haven't even got the balls to join the EK only forum.
Sluggs
Hopefully not too patronising this time!!
Harry
Not sure why you felt the need to make such a comment but perhaps you should stick with posting your own opinions first before rather ignorantly assuming you know mine!
I can only offer my admiration for the CC in organising such a mass meeting and for their determination to be heard. Unlike some, they were prepared to stand up and be counted, far more so than certain individuals who pervade these forums under the cover of anonymity spouting how terrible EK is...and has been for years...and years..
Well, if you're not happy with your lot, get off your backside and do something about it. Most moaners will not even have the guts to spend an hour on an e-mail for fear of a personal management backlash, but will happily post on a public forum cajoling and persuading others to do their dirty work for them. They haven't even got the balls to join the EK only forum.
Sluggs
Hopefully not too patronising this time!!
Harry
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I don't mean to diminish the achievement of the CC banding together with some semblance of solidarity. Truly. Kudos to them.
But if one is rational - and honest - it's far easier to be "brave" when you have far less, or nearly nothing, to lose. (Which is why people fitting that description are far more dangerous, as well.)
The average profile of cabin crew at EK: young, single, few years invested in the company, and no designs on a career there; is nothing like that of the average profile of a pilot at EK: older, often with a family to support, and highly invested in their career. (This demographic is shifting by EK design to favour pilots fitting in the former profile, I know!)
This is a generalization and of course there are many exceptions in both groups. And again, this is NOT intended to disrespect those cabin crew who DO have a great deal to lose and showed up anyway.
But as such, especially given the vastly larger employee group, it is perfectly logical that a "revolt" should gather far larger numbers of cabin crew than pilots. Good old Harry though, never missing a chance to disparage his colleagues as lacking "balls"...do you need a link to the definition of "patronizing" or what...?
But if one is rational - and honest - it's far easier to be "brave" when you have far less, or nearly nothing, to lose. (Which is why people fitting that description are far more dangerous, as well.)
The average profile of cabin crew at EK: young, single, few years invested in the company, and no designs on a career there; is nothing like that of the average profile of a pilot at EK: older, often with a family to support, and highly invested in their career. (This demographic is shifting by EK design to favour pilots fitting in the former profile, I know!)
This is a generalization and of course there are many exceptions in both groups. And again, this is NOT intended to disrespect those cabin crew who DO have a great deal to lose and showed up anyway.
But as such, especially given the vastly larger employee group, it is perfectly logical that a "revolt" should gather far larger numbers of cabin crew than pilots. Good old Harry though, never missing a chance to disparage his colleagues as lacking "balls"...do you need a link to the definition of "patronizing" or what...?
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I don't mean to diminish the achievement of the CC banding together with some semblance of solidarity. Truly. Kudos to them.
But if one is rational - and honest - it's far easier to be "brave" when you have far less, or nearly nothing, to lose. (Which is why people fitting that description are far more dangerous, as well.)
The average profile of cabin crew at EK: young, single, few years invested in the company, and no designs on a career there; is nothing like that of the average profile of a pilot at EK: older, often with a family to support, and highly invested in their career. (This demographic is shifting by EK design to favour pilots fitting in the former profile, I know!)
This is a generalization and of course there are many exceptions in both groups. And again, this is NOT intended to disrespect those cabin crew who DO have a great deal to lose and showed up anyway.
But as such, especially given the vastly larger employee group, it is perfectly logical that a "revolt" should gather far larger numbers of cabin crew than pilots. Good old Harry though, never missing a chance to disparage his colleagues as lacking "balls"...do you need a link to the definition of "patronizing" or what...?
But if one is rational - and honest - it's far easier to be "brave" when you have far less, or nearly nothing, to lose. (Which is why people fitting that description are far more dangerous, as well.)
The average profile of cabin crew at EK: young, single, few years invested in the company, and no designs on a career there; is nothing like that of the average profile of a pilot at EK: older, often with a family to support, and highly invested in their career. (This demographic is shifting by EK design to favour pilots fitting in the former profile, I know!)
This is a generalization and of course there are many exceptions in both groups. And again, this is NOT intended to disrespect those cabin crew who DO have a great deal to lose and showed up anyway.
But as such, especially given the vastly larger employee group, it is perfectly logical that a "revolt" should gather far larger numbers of cabin crew than pilots. Good old Harry though, never missing a chance to disparage his colleagues as lacking "balls"...do you need a link to the definition of "patronizing" or what...?
We need around 750-800 pilots over the next 12-14 months. We're getting a fraction of that number. Cabin crew recruitment has been frozen for the last 18 months and only now is it planned to re start with the earliest course being late April, early May. Without wishing to sound like the patronising git you accuse me of, if you were running this Company, which group do YOU think is the one the Company needs the most. Some of those cabin crew you refer to are just as much invested in their job as us. I would say that a large number of our pursers, CSV's and FG1's have spouses and children and, unlike the majority of pilots, also use their income to support extended family back home.
As for the disparaging comments, I'll stand by that. When I see your name on the EK dedicated forum along with Talparc and his like, then I'll retract my opinion that the majority of moaners haven't the balls!
Harry
Last edited by harry the cod; 13th Feb 2018 at 09:53.
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