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Old 12th Dec 2017, 01:33
  #101 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Airbubba
Here, emphasis mine:

Originally Posted by Killaroo
A little Commuter Jetstream appeared at the Holding Point on the opposite side of the runway and was given barked instructions to line up after a landing Air France A330 on short finals, and be ready immediate.


If Air France was on short finals [sic] I guess it means he hadn't passed.
Airbubba, I suggest you drop your 'confirmation bias', re-read that statement S L O W L Y and try to see a different (the correct) meaning. Feel free to insert a comma somewhere, if it makes you happier.
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Old 12th Dec 2017, 01:37
  #102 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Capn Bloggs
So how would you expect Emirates, in a 380, to do that? Tell ATC to "b@gger, off, we want the ILS"?
This.

We all know what would happen in that scenario in JFK.
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Old 12th Dec 2017, 02:29
  #103 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Wingman82
Flush your bright idea down the toilet - Rosters are bad at ek but no one does 5 night turns in a row be real! Plenty of incidents or accidents with senior ans old guys happened as well
Yeah, but you can do 4.
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Old 12th Dec 2017, 02:32
  #104 (permalink)  
 
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AA MD-11’s were based in DFW, ORD, MIA, and SEA.

Not based in JFK and don’t recall them operating out of JFK.
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Old 12th Dec 2017, 02:47
  #105 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Killaroo
Airbubba, I suggest you drop your 'confirmation bias', re-read that statement S L O W L Y and try to see a different (the correct) meaning. Feel free to insert a comma somewhere, if it makes you happier.
Thanks for the correction, it was just a typo, no problem. Groucho Marx once shot an elephant in his pajamas. And most of my flying tales are based on a true story.

Still, I somehow think you've got me confused with someone else.

Originally Posted by Killaroo
What is interesting about your weasly denunciation is that you are obviously upset and embarrassed, and wish to make the truth about JFK ATC go away.
What did you think was my weasly [sic] denunciation? How am I upset and embarrassed? I honestly had no intent to make you feel threatened, paranoid or insecure. I'm not involved in a coverup about JFK ATC. Really.

I don't think I've said much at all here about JFK ATC except that they don't do those conditional takeoff clearances as far as I know.

However, it was good that the tower controller was watching and gave a couple of low altitude alerts to let the Emirates crew know something was wrong. EGPWS alerts are sometimes inhibited until very late on non-precision approaches due to configuration as one recent Airbus CFIT mishap at BHM showed.
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Old 12th Dec 2017, 03:09
  #106 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Killaroo
Airbubba, I suggest you drop your 'confirmation bias', re-read that statement S L O W L Y and try to see a different (the correct) meaning. Feel free to insert a comma somewhere, if it makes you happier.
Okay feel free to question my English comprehension. So WTF does ‘short finals’ mean in bogan?
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Old 12th Dec 2017, 03:11
  #107 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Capn Bloggs
You lot need to get with the program; we've been doing that for decades.
Great. We’ll do it right after your governing authority adopts realistic FAR 117 style Rest rules for longhaul esp when you operate in US airspace. Let me know when your lot gets with that program.

Last edited by shedsd330; 12th Dec 2017 at 03:24.
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Old 12th Dec 2017, 03:20
  #108 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by shedsd330
Great. We’ll do it right after your governing authority adopts realistic FAR 117 Rest rules for longhair esp when you operate in US airspace. Let me know when your lot gets with that program.
What are "rest rules for longhair"? I didn't find anything in the grooming manual.
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Old 12th Dec 2017, 03:26
  #109 (permalink)  
 
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Read a fair amount of bunk in this, my 10 cents.

The ‘Visual’ call is standard in the states to allow tighter separation to traffic ahead, same in Dubs.

Last time I went to JFK, a couple of months ago, we flew the carnasie approach.

Ignored VOR approach as per LIDO text, pluged the RNAV approach in the FMS which flies the VOR and the turn, flew it Nav / FPA; then looked out the window to make sure it is matching the real world.

It flew us nicely round the corner and we then disconnected at 200 feet and landed.

There is no doubt it is less than ideal there are 3 pages dedicated to the approach that subtlety differ. For those of you from the stoneage that say WTF to ‘ignore the VOR’. The VOR is just a poorer RNAV overlay.

So choices; possibly wrong approach in FMS, didn’t read the text for the approach or pressed Approach button.

If you press the Approach button it dumps you in the weeds, seen that in the sim ; that would be my guess.

Big picture seems a bit of a screw up, picked up at some point, MAP carried out from about 500 feet and safe return.

Cue 6 pages of slagging crew, aircraft, JFK ATC, all US controllers and Emirates plus their management. Off flying tomorrow, I hope I don’t do anything to raise the ire of my sympathetic colleagues😱
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Old 12th Dec 2017, 06:36
  #110 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by misd-agin
AA MD-11’s were based in DFW, ORD, MIA, and SEA.

Not based in JFK and don’t recall them operating out of JFK.
That's probably why he screwed it up then, eh.
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Old 12th Dec 2017, 08:52
  #111 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Killaroo
That's probably why he screwed it up then, eh.
Who’s screwed what up?

As far as your story goes, I can see the AirFrance couldn’t land where they should and missed their exit which messed up all the following sequence!

So who’ to blame?
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Old 12th Dec 2017, 09:27
  #112 (permalink)  
 
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No DME at the threshold makes gross error check trickier.

Manually tune ILS so there's a GS presented always helps when doing these curved visuals/circling approaches onto an ILS runway (I don't know whether an ILS can be manually tuned in the 380...).
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Old 12th Dec 2017, 10:05
  #113 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Capn Bloggs
No DME at the threshold makes gross error check trickier.

Manually tune ILS so there's a GS presented always helps when doing these curved visuals/circling approaches onto an ILS runway (I don't know whether an ILS can be manually tuned in the 380...).
The distance/altitude checks are based on DME from CRI so pretty straight forward. And yes you can manually tune an ILS on the 380. It's really not necessary though considering you already have a vertical deviation indication on the PFD with the RNAV selected in the box.
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Old 12th Dec 2017, 10:24
  #114 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Capn Bloggs
No DME at the threshold makes gross error check trickier.

Manually tune ILS so there's a GS presented always helps when doing these curved visuals/circling approaches onto an ILS runway (I don't know whether an ILS can be manually tuned in the 380...).
Bloggs..have you ever flown into JFK..and dome the approach we are talking about?
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Old 12th Dec 2017, 10:28
  #115 (permalink)  
 
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Read my earlier post, SOP.

I have been to a dome.
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Old 12th Dec 2017, 10:31
  #116 (permalink)  
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What, a Dome Coffee shop, what are you talking about?
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Old 12th Dec 2017, 10:43
  #117 (permalink)  
 
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No DME at the threshold makes gross error check trickier.
Bloggs it’s not difficult, Rwy threshold into a fix page and hey Presto you have how far away it is, a good gross error check.
The trouble is, many at EK inhabit a space where a common sense approach is overridden by procedures that merely increase complexity as the various stakeholders seek to justify their influence and rely more than ever on infallible technology without ever considering that pilots can and will do just as good a job. The primary reason they think this way is simple, these very same stakeholders are themselves almost to a person intimidated by anything that isn’t straight forward or something that is slightly unusual or challenging, therefore the assumption is made that a procedure is required to mitigate the challenge as they judge that a normal line pilots skills are inferior to their own.
NCE is another airport where this has been highlighted which will in time present similar type events.
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Old 12th Dec 2017, 11:07
  #118 (permalink)  
 
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Thanks Falcon, I was thinking how I would "approach" it. Always learning... Wish I could have a crack at it; alas, too far away...
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Old 12th Dec 2017, 11:22
  #119 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Capn Bloggs
No DME at the threshold makes gross error check trickier.
Don't know the whale but on A320/300/340/330 it was SOP to put ldg rwy in PROG page to get a clue about distance to go.
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Old 12th Dec 2017, 11:26
  #120 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 8314
Who’s screwed what up?

As far as your story goes, I can see the AirFrance couldn’t land where they should and missed their exit which messed up all the following sequence!

So who’ to blame?
They did that in YYZ some years ago and "exited" at the end, should we blame YYZ ATC?
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