EK207 Jfk
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Every Go-Around in EK is analysed. There is the 'no Jeopardy, no ASR' 1000' rule for G/As, but the simple fact is that every time an EK jet does a G/A they analyse what happened, and yes, crew have been questioned about it, despite not having to put in paperwork. And it's not 'trying to become a better airline by looking at incidents' analysis.
Join Date: Jan 2016
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Don't know if that's true but not disagreeing with you.
However, do the go around before 1000' and you're not likely to get "the call" unless you bugger it up.
It's time to stop looking over our shoulders all the time and get on with the job, put the big boy/girl pants on and make some decisions. Combine experience and awareness or inexperience and suspicion (choose your own mix). Take the extra fuel if you need it, use the ALT button (380), tell ATC "no" if appropriate. We can't take charge of management but we can take charge of ourselves and the a/c.
I still love the job, just keep the office wallahs at arms length!
However, do the go around before 1000' and you're not likely to get "the call" unless you bugger it up.
It's time to stop looking over our shoulders all the time and get on with the job, put the big boy/girl pants on and make some decisions. Combine experience and awareness or inexperience and suspicion (choose your own mix). Take the extra fuel if you need it, use the ALT button (380), tell ATC "no" if appropriate. We can't take charge of management but we can take charge of ourselves and the a/c.
I still love the job, just keep the office wallahs at arms length!
Join Date: Oct 2015
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Don't know if that's true but not disagreeing with you.
However, do the go around before 1000' and you're not likely to get "the call" unless you bugger it up.
It's time to stop looking over our shoulders all the time and get on with the job, put the big boy/girl pants on and make some decisions. Combine experience and awareness or inexperience and suspicion (choose your own mix). Take the extra fuel if you need it, use the ALT button (380), tell ATC "no" if appropriate. We can't take charge of management but we can take charge of ourselves and the a/c.
I still love the job, just keep the office wallahs at arms length!
However, do the go around before 1000' and you're not likely to get "the call" unless you bugger it up.
It's time to stop looking over our shoulders all the time and get on with the job, put the big boy/girl pants on and make some decisions. Combine experience and awareness or inexperience and suspicion (choose your own mix). Take the extra fuel if you need it, use the ALT button (380), tell ATC "no" if appropriate. We can't take charge of management but we can take charge of ourselves and the a/c.
I still love the job, just keep the office wallahs at arms length!
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: In Fresh Air
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Ah, the ASR. If you just put in, "GA at 1100ft AAL", you MAY get a call. However, if you include the reason, mitigating circumstances, root cause and maybe how to prevent it the next time, it's almost a guarantee you will not get a call. Eleven years, numerous ASRs, and I got only one call to provide me with info I was unaware of. Say what you will, but you screw up something and provide a very limited amount of info...beware. Re, MAN. If "they" think you're hiding something....beware. Simple, in my experience. and this is recent, not 2014. You're the master of your own destiny....most of the time.
Join Date: Oct 2004
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Because there is no RNAV Approach for RWY13L.
To be honest JFK is one the absolute worst airports in the Western Hemisphere.
Giving non precision approaches with lead-in tight visual manoevring in marginal weather is an absolute insult to Safety, yet accepted by the FAA and all Operators, including the one I fly for. Luckily, we do train this approach almost every sim.
The whole JFK operation, from approach to taxi into the gate is full of Safety issues, compounded by less than impressive, obnoxious and non standard ATC.
To be honest JFK is one the absolute worst airports in the Western Hemisphere.
Giving non precision approaches with lead-in tight visual manoevring in marginal weather is an absolute insult to Safety, yet accepted by the FAA and all Operators, including the one I fly for. Luckily, we do train this approach almost every sim.
The whole JFK operation, from approach to taxi into the gate is full of Safety issues, compounded by less than impressive, obnoxious and non standard ATC.
Join Date: Oct 2004
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New York ATC is some of the best in the world; scapegoating the controllers is definitely misplaced, when its quite evident that the UAE suffers from a significant lack of training and ability to learn from its mistakes. Spoken by someone who has been based in both arenas....
Notice, US pilots aren't flying fatigued anymore and receive non-jeopardy AQP training and are overseen by a governmental body that is able to critique itself and its own rules. EK and FZ will continue to threaten their passengers safety until they learn from their mistakes by developing truthful self-reflection and proper CRM application.
Don't blame New York controllers because you don't know how to fly a visual approach...
Notice, US pilots aren't flying fatigued anymore and receive non-jeopardy AQP training and are overseen by a governmental body that is able to critique itself and its own rules. EK and FZ will continue to threaten their passengers safety until they learn from their mistakes by developing truthful self-reflection and proper CRM application.
Don't blame New York controllers because you don't know how to fly a visual approach...
Join Date: Oct 2004
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Just last week at LGA
“Traffic on crossing runway on short final and landing traffic has yet to clear be ready Delta”.....
Since I’m not a dumb ass and have common sense I stood the throttles up and when ATC cleared us for takeoff we were rolling in no time.
Has common sense left the cockpit or do we need everything spelled out for us?
I have always loved the CRI approach since it gives us a chance to do something different. The River Visual into DCA is another fun one but some of the posters on this forum should stay away from those approaches. Please!
“Traffic on crossing runway on short final and landing traffic has yet to clear be ready Delta”.....
Since I’m not a dumb ass and have common sense I stood the throttles up and when ATC cleared us for takeoff we were rolling in no time.
Has common sense left the cockpit or do we need everything spelled out for us?
I have always loved the CRI approach since it gives us a chance to do something different. The River Visual into DCA is another fun one but some of the posters on this forum should stay away from those approaches. Please!
Yeah you'd think these third world pilots would be well suited to the third world ATC provided in the good ol usa
Well said, mate! God forbid (this is big coming from an atheist) if these Third World airliners/pilots have to fly the Expressway Visual in to LGA. Then LGA ATC would be fault
Join Date: Mar 2015
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Fatigue
...Notice, US pilots aren't flying fatigued anymore and receive non-jeopardy AQP training and are overseen by a governmental body that is able to critique itself and its own rules. EK and FZ will continue to threaten their passengers safety until they learn from their mistakes by developing truthful self-reflection and proper CRM application.
...
...
Fatigue is a treacherous monster with so many effects on body and soul. You won't be yourself anymore but may be the last to notice (sometimes after the wife and kids ran away).
The constant grind of tiring hours and mental abuse that EK pilots are exposed to will get to you. How badly you will only understand after months of breathing freedom again.
EK is firmly embedded in an obsolete model of society. Change from within seems impossible.
I hope that the crew who lost everything over this incident will find the time to get in touch with the FAA and tell them what is really behind this incident, including the years of illegal rostering. But please wait until you are safe and sound outside the Gulag perimeter.
Let me know if you need contact details. Sometimes it's not straightforward to get to the right desk.
I hope that the crew who lost everything over this incident will find the time to get in touch with the FAA and tell them what is really behind this incident, including the years of illegal rostering. But please wait until you are safe and sound outside the Gulag perimeter.
Let me know if you need contact details. Sometimes it's not straightforward to get to the right desk.
Join Date: Mar 2015
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I know as a matter of fact that they do care. But they also need some more men with balls to speak up.
I fully understand that one has to protect oneself and the family while under the UAE rule. Don't do anything stupid. The one thing they are good at is surveillance and suppression of dissidents.
But after leaving the place I believe it's our duty as pilots to report what's happening there to the independent authorities, however sleepy they may seem. There's a clear trend for Flight Safety at EK and FZ and it's not good. Even though EASA and the FAA are not directly responsible for regulating these airlines, they record all input you will give.
This will be helpful to avoid the simple headline "pilot mistake" on the inevitable day. And this information also slowly makes its way into the awareness of politicians responsible for handing over the aviation business to unregulated airlines.
I fully understand that one has to protect oneself and the family while under the UAE rule. Don't do anything stupid. The one thing they are good at is surveillance and suppression of dissidents.
But after leaving the place I believe it's our duty as pilots to report what's happening there to the independent authorities, however sleepy they may seem. There's a clear trend for Flight Safety at EK and FZ and it's not good. Even though EASA and the FAA are not directly responsible for regulating these airlines, they record all input you will give.
This will be helpful to avoid the simple headline "pilot mistake" on the inevitable day. And this information also slowly makes its way into the awareness of politicians responsible for handing over the aviation business to unregulated airlines.
Join Date: Jun 2006
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I feel sorry for the pilots that were sacked. Flying 14 hrs and piloting an approach they are unprepared for while landing at 6am body time.
However just about every pilot who had been fired from EK has ended up in a better position. No one wants to leave involuntary but chances are you’ll be far better off and you won’t have to put up w Emirates anymore.
However just about every pilot who had been fired from EK has ended up in a better position. No one wants to leave involuntary but chances are you’ll be far better off and you won’t have to put up w Emirates anymore.
Join Date: Mar 2015
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They are also illegal on several levels:
- at company level for reporting false check-in times. Do you think they changed the India nightturns into layovers for nothing after the WSJ article? Try fitting 544/545 etc into the regulations even with the new check in times (not saying they reflect the truth). That's a simple example.
- at company level for the farce of a Fatigue Management system. Try your rosters with a standard Western ruleset for Fatigue Management. At DHL they couldn't believe the difference that made on top of legal requirements.
- at company level for bullying Captains into discretion as a default
- at GCAA level for covering up the false check-in times
- at GCAA level for granting all the Annex exceptions
- at GCAA level for factoring the Augmenting Hours
- at GCAA level for disclosing confidential crew reports to the employer
- at Aeromedical level for following Employer wishes versus independent medical judgment
...
All of that is violating quite a few laws.
- at company level for reporting false check-in times. Do you think they changed the India nightturns into layovers for nothing after the WSJ article? Try fitting 544/545 etc into the regulations even with the new check in times (not saying they reflect the truth). That's a simple example.
- at company level for the farce of a Fatigue Management system. Try your rosters with a standard Western ruleset for Fatigue Management. At DHL they couldn't believe the difference that made on top of legal requirements.
- at company level for bullying Captains into discretion as a default
- at GCAA level for covering up the false check-in times
- at GCAA level for granting all the Annex exceptions
- at GCAA level for factoring the Augmenting Hours
- at GCAA level for disclosing confidential crew reports to the employer
- at Aeromedical level for following Employer wishes versus independent medical judgment
...
All of that is violating quite a few laws.
Last edited by in freedom; 7th Jan 2018 at 19:19.
Join Date: Oct 2015
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It IS legal. Because country B’s CAA audited country A’s regs and made the decision to allow them to operate into country B.