EK207 Jfk
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short flights long nights
777 up..this may come as a shock to you. My first jet was the F28, my second was the 737-200. What you were required to do was FLY the aircraft!!!! There was nothing to programme....the only "programme" was the one in your head as you flew the aircraft.
Oh, I forgot, my first airline aircraft was the F27....we had to fly real NDB approaches in that using a needle....
Oh, I forgot, my first airline aircraft was the F27....we had to fly real NDB approaches in that using a needle....
So if you are in the bunk when something happens, can you be fired for that?
One of the crew in question was halfway into a 3 hour break when the alleged infraction occurred. When he presented management with this info, he was told the complainant 'had more clout in the company and would be believed'. aka wasta. If they want you gone, they will find a way regardless if you were even on the bl00dy aircraft!
Be glad you got out while you could. The place is beyond belief and the last 2-3 months you couldn't make this sh!t up...
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Not mutually exclusive...
Plenty of aircraft have flown into the ground with pilots flying the aircraft without any FMS guidance.
Using both to the best of our ability, is what we're paid to do.
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Thread Starter
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This is an old interesting post concerning the approach in question:
https://www.pprune.org/archive/index.php/t-340679.html
In any case, either moscow and jfk highlight gross unacceptable errors, you can discuss as much as you want about fmc, visual etc etc but being at that height over the distance is a sign of poor airmanship imho.
I feel sorry for the affected crew that work for that disgraced airline with a safety record similar to sudan air, the 777 accident is a perfect example.
All of this not only for some less skilled pilots but also thanks to the ppl in the office that are only good in complicating things with useless fci’s and improper procedures.
https://www.pprune.org/archive/index.php/t-340679.html
In any case, either moscow and jfk highlight gross unacceptable errors, you can discuss as much as you want about fmc, visual etc etc but being at that height over the distance is a sign of poor airmanship imho.
I feel sorry for the affected crew that work for that disgraced airline with a safety record similar to sudan air, the 777 accident is a perfect example.
All of this not only for some less skilled pilots but also thanks to the ppl in the office that are only good in complicating things with useless fci’s and improper procedures.
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BobDole
All were showing rosters but I'm told that the operating crew have been fired along with the augmenting captain. Augmenting FO has a final written warning (despite the fact that he can't see a thing from his seat).
All the guys or just the augment have rosters?
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Procedures ARE Manufacturer FCOM...
. They are Airbus factory FCOM. If you don't believe me, look in the A380 AFM & factory FCOM, available online from a variety of sources.For example, the previous ILS glideslope 'intercept from above' procedure of setting FCU altitude 'above' is pure Airbus factory FCOM. Recently changed by operator to set 'below' (similar to Boeing factory FCOM) that is a way of doing intercept from above on ILS that avoids flying into the ground in V/S.
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Safer
While there's no perfect solution, setting FCU/MCP altitude BELOW on 'intercept G/S from above' procedure, at least ensures the aircraft should not hit the ground while trying to intercept G/S.
It could mean altitude capture during intercept attempt or 'unrestricted climb' during go-around, however those are less serious than unrestricted descents in V/S. Boeing 777 factory FCOM agrees.
It could mean altitude capture during intercept attempt or 'unrestricted climb' during go-around, however those are less serious than unrestricted descents in V/S. Boeing 777 factory FCOM agrees.
If you have the GS armed, how can you descend into the ground? Stabilization criteria would would mean a go around from 1000 agl or 3.3 dme if not established on the glide right? A cross check of distance vs ALT let's you know how ya going. Or a peak at the VD.
I don't think this new procedure (well new on the bus anyway) would have prevented any of these incidents. Remember DOH and BOM were 777s.
You might want to check that answer against what the FCI now states Gloie.
I don't think this new procedure (well new on the bus anyway) would have prevented any of these incidents. Remember DOH and BOM were 777s.
You might want to check that answer against what the FCI now states Gloie.
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Ask Moscow Guys...
Ask the Moscow guys, Don. If crew descends early, before LOC, G/S capture can't happen.
If ALT is set BELOW in such a CASE, 1,000ft level-off is worst that can happen. If ALT is set ABOVE, no AUTOFLIGHT mode is going to stop you from hitting the ground.
If ALT is set BELOW in such a CASE, 1,000ft level-off is worst that can happen. If ALT is set ABOVE, no AUTOFLIGHT mode is going to stop you from hitting the ground.
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don
7-up was referring to the Boeing factory FCOM and goafer asked what it was, thus my answer.
Up to the two dugong hick-ups we low-life tractor drivers followed that Boeing procedure, now EK decided to change it higher for both fleets.
7-up was referring to the Boeing factory FCOM and goafer asked what it was, thus my answer.
Up to the two dugong hick-ups we low-life tractor drivers followed that Boeing procedure, now EK decided to change it higher for both fleets.
Only half a speed-brake
Unfortunately, not-yet-the-worst that could happen is this: https://aviation-safety.net/database...?id=20071028-0. One way of evaluating a procedure is to run a study of what happens if not-followed properly or mis-applied.
G/S intercept from above was a mandatory item in Toulouse check ride a while back. Wonder why they decided for it? If the car is dirty, wash it. Painting it over rarely brings satisfactory results, even if the new colour is more fashionable.
(Out of airspace necessity I've become fairly proficient with both techniques as per each manufacturers' recommendations. Coat, hat and back to my continent)
G/S intercept from above was a mandatory item in Toulouse check ride a while back. Wonder why they decided for it? If the car is dirty, wash it. Painting it over rarely brings satisfactory results, even if the new colour is more fashionable.
(Out of airspace necessity I've become fairly proficient with both techniques as per each manufacturers' recommendations. Coat, hat and back to my continent)
My point being glofish that the holy Boeing FCOM did not prevent the BOM nor the DOH events.