EK 40k $ bond for Captain Upgrades
Filion , a good nicely balanced post .
CM is an accomplished accountant specialising in developing lcc behaviours in older more stick in the mud carriers, with some success and equally some flops. No marked benefit to EK pilots will occur ... that’s not on anyone’s agenda
CM is an accomplished accountant specialising in developing lcc behaviours in older more stick in the mud carriers, with some success and equally some flops. No marked benefit to EK pilots will occur ... that’s not on anyone’s agenda
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Flion,
With much due respect, it all comes down to what you would want to get paid to be in your home country. I read your post and it’s spot on how the company corners you to stay in Dxb.
10yr 777 captain at Delta makes $335+ per credit hour. With work rules, profit sharing (that’s transparent), leave that’s awarded, sick time, and overall treatment there is no comparison. Somebody can correct me, but last year was just under 20% profit share. Do the math.
I fly a narrow body airplane at Delta and was previously an EK tractor captain. Hands down, a narrow body captain at Delta makes more money, has more benefits, and way better QOL than anyone at EK.
The ability to drop trips, move trips, and enjoy life is paramount.
You can have your money, I got my life back.
Safe flying to all,
CC
With much due respect, it all comes down to what you would want to get paid to be in your home country. I read your post and it’s spot on how the company corners you to stay in Dxb.
10yr 777 captain at Delta makes $335+ per credit hour. With work rules, profit sharing (that’s transparent), leave that’s awarded, sick time, and overall treatment there is no comparison. Somebody can correct me, but last year was just under 20% profit share. Do the math.
I fly a narrow body airplane at Delta and was previously an EK tractor captain. Hands down, a narrow body captain at Delta makes more money, has more benefits, and way better QOL than anyone at EK.
The ability to drop trips, move trips, and enjoy life is paramount.
You can have your money, I got my life back.
Safe flying to all,
CC
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+1 Captain Chipotle. 12 years at EK, and now flying NB at Delta. Prefer the 777 to the Maddog but I’ve got my life back and averaging 7-8 hours of sleep a night after being sleep deprived the last 12 years.
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I’m honestly perplexed that you guys are comparing EK to Delta. Delta is a first tier, first choice airline located in a first world country. Emirates is none of those things. No doubt it once was first choice, it probably was when some of you came, but those days are long gone. As Flion wrote, there are plenty of reasons people stay, and plenty of reasons why some still come, but no one should kid themselves that there is any comparison between the sh*t sandwiches continually served up out of EGHQ and the treatement exprerienced by those in a real airline.
Now, returning to the original subject of thread, real airlines don’t bond their Captains- they don’t have to.
Now, returning to the original subject of thread, real airlines don’t bond their Captains- they don’t have to.
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Every airline is going down the ****ter, not just EK. My previous airline did, the airline before that too.... This is an industry wide problem. I'm just glad that I'm not too far from retirement!!
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Okay I’ll give you my pay but before I dive into that I want to emphasize the treatment and conditions at both companies which is hard to put a realistic monetary value on but it’s significant.
$241 an hour X 80 paid flying hrs of which I maybe fly 74-75 and hardly ever between the hours of 11pm and 6am. In fact I only did 1 (ONE) Red Eye all of this year. That’s $19,762 which is the bare min. Most months I can do that in 12-13days working a month. If I want to pick up trips it’s usually at double time. That’s almost $500an hour. Also we get 16% since we gave up our pension so Im almost up to $23,000 a month. Yes I have to pay taxes but so does every American working in Dubai and at the high rate after the standard overseas deductions.
On just face value an EK widebody captain and a Delta narrow body captain are probably close with regards to pay but then the extras kick in and that’s where it doesn’t even get close. Ex;
I haven’t even brought up the widebodies at Delta since I can’t hold them but I think the pay is around $320 an hour.
I work 13 days.
I stay within 1-2 time zones.
I don’t work at night, in the middle of the night.
The pay comparison above is with me at 80 and EK at 95-100. That’s 15-18% difference just right there.
You get school allowance but you are suppose to pay taxes on the allowance and it doesn’t cover the whole tuition.
I have ATC the FAA and labor laws looking out for me and if those entities don’t do their job the union comes in with full force.
So if the pay is comparable but favors Delta and the intangibles aren’t even close it’s hands down Delta. Defending Emirates or by trying to justify its actions is a sick disease. It does you and your family no good. You can tell yourself many times that I’m better off in the sand but once you escape you realize what a Huge mistake it was to stay even one day longer than you have to. How many pilots that have left have said how much better they feel and how many pilots that have left say they want to come back? The answers to above are All and None.
$241 an hour X 80 paid flying hrs of which I maybe fly 74-75 and hardly ever between the hours of 11pm and 6am. In fact I only did 1 (ONE) Red Eye all of this year. That’s $19,762 which is the bare min. Most months I can do that in 12-13days working a month. If I want to pick up trips it’s usually at double time. That’s almost $500an hour. Also we get 16% since we gave up our pension so Im almost up to $23,000 a month. Yes I have to pay taxes but so does every American working in Dubai and at the high rate after the standard overseas deductions.
On just face value an EK widebody captain and a Delta narrow body captain are probably close with regards to pay but then the extras kick in and that’s where it doesn’t even get close. Ex;
I haven’t even brought up the widebodies at Delta since I can’t hold them but I think the pay is around $320 an hour.
I work 13 days.
I stay within 1-2 time zones.
I don’t work at night, in the middle of the night.
The pay comparison above is with me at 80 and EK at 95-100. That’s 15-18% difference just right there.
You get school allowance but you are suppose to pay taxes on the allowance and it doesn’t cover the whole tuition.
I have ATC the FAA and labor laws looking out for me and if those entities don’t do their job the union comes in with full force.
So if the pay is comparable but favors Delta and the intangibles aren’t even close it’s hands down Delta. Defending Emirates or by trying to justify its actions is a sick disease. It does you and your family no good. You can tell yourself many times that I’m better off in the sand but once you escape you realize what a Huge mistake it was to stay even one day longer than you have to. How many pilots that have left have said how much better they feel and how many pilots that have left say they want to come back? The answers to above are All and None.
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What the US airlines offer is way in excess of what a Brit can get moving back to Europe.
So what are the options for someone who has the right to work and live in Europe only?
Fly brutal low cost multisector short haul rosters at 25% less pay as a DEC than our Delta friends,with only 10/11 days off a month (pinched by finishing late and starting early) and no way to control your roster? Or start at the bottom of a long list with a load of twenty somethings at BA or Virgin, more than halving your take home pay while aged in your forties?
Without the option of the wonderful US airlines, one can see why an EK captain would stay put and try to rationalise that it ain’t that bad.
Seniority ruins this career and stops the healthy movement of experienced labour that forces employers in other industries to up their game and retain staff.
So what are the options for someone who has the right to work and live in Europe only?
Fly brutal low cost multisector short haul rosters at 25% less pay as a DEC than our Delta friends,with only 10/11 days off a month (pinched by finishing late and starting early) and no way to control your roster? Or start at the bottom of a long list with a load of twenty somethings at BA or Virgin, more than halving your take home pay while aged in your forties?
Without the option of the wonderful US airlines, one can see why an EK captain would stay put and try to rationalise that it ain’t that bad.
Seniority ruins this career and stops the healthy movement of experienced labour that forces employers in other industries to up their game and retain staff.
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Okay I’ll give you my pay but before I dive into that I want to emphasize the treatment and conditions at both companies which is hard to put a realistic monetary value on but it’s significant.
$241 an hour X 80 paid flying hrs of which I maybe fly 74-75 and hardly ever between the hours of 11pm and 6am. In fact I only did 1 (ONE) Red Eye all of this year. That’s $19,762 which is the bare min. Most months I can do that in 12-13days working a month. If I want to pick up trips it’s usually at double time. That’s almost $500an hour. Also we get 16% since we gave up our pension so Im almost up to $23,000 a month. Yes I have to pay taxes but so does every American working in Dubai and at the high rate after the standard overseas deductions.
On just face value an EK widebody captain and a Delta narrow body captain are probably close with regards to pay but then the extras kick in and that’s where it doesn’t even get close. Ex;
I haven’t even brought up the widebodies at Delta since I can’t hold them but I think the pay is around $320 an hour.
I work 13 days.
I stay within 1-2 time zones.
I don’t work at night, in the middle of the night.
The pay comparison above is with me at 80 and EK at 95-100. That’s 15-18% difference just right there.
You get school allowance but you are suppose to pay taxes on the allowance and it doesn’t cover the whole tuition.
I have ATC the FAA and labor laws looking out for me and if those entities don’t do their job the union comes in with full force.
So if the pay is comparable but favors Delta and the intangibles aren’t even close it’s hands down Delta. Defending Emirates or by trying to justify its actions is a sick disease. It does you and your family no good. You can tell yourself many times that I’m better off in the sand but once you escape you realize what a Huge mistake it was to stay even one day longer than you have to. How many pilots that have left have said how much better they feel and how many pilots that have left say they want to come back? The answers to above are All and None.
$241 an hour X 80 paid flying hrs of which I maybe fly 74-75 and hardly ever between the hours of 11pm and 6am. In fact I only did 1 (ONE) Red Eye all of this year. That’s $19,762 which is the bare min. Most months I can do that in 12-13days working a month. If I want to pick up trips it’s usually at double time. That’s almost $500an hour. Also we get 16% since we gave up our pension so Im almost up to $23,000 a month. Yes I have to pay taxes but so does every American working in Dubai and at the high rate after the standard overseas deductions.
On just face value an EK widebody captain and a Delta narrow body captain are probably close with regards to pay but then the extras kick in and that’s where it doesn’t even get close. Ex;
I haven’t even brought up the widebodies at Delta since I can’t hold them but I think the pay is around $320 an hour.
I work 13 days.
I stay within 1-2 time zones.
I don’t work at night, in the middle of the night.
The pay comparison above is with me at 80 and EK at 95-100. That’s 15-18% difference just right there.
You get school allowance but you are suppose to pay taxes on the allowance and it doesn’t cover the whole tuition.
I have ATC the FAA and labor laws looking out for me and if those entities don’t do their job the union comes in with full force.
So if the pay is comparable but favors Delta and the intangibles aren’t even close it’s hands down Delta. Defending Emirates or by trying to justify its actions is a sick disease. It does you and your family no good. You can tell yourself many times that I’m better off in the sand but once you escape you realize what a Huge mistake it was to stay even one day longer than you have to. How many pilots that have left have said how much better they feel and how many pilots that have left say they want to come back? The answers to above are All and None.
Great so we have the inside scoop on how wonderful life is back in the US for those who have that option, I’m guessing for the vast majority it merely sounds like the usual blowhard nonsense that you got sick of hearing at RTGS sessions when the upset Americans in the class started the conversation with “well back in the states...”
News flash, the ME isn’t America, it never was and it never will be, EK for it’s part demands it’s pound of flesh as it’s the nature of the beast.
For me, no amount of money could compensate me for having to endure living any length of time in America, the pervading smell of fried food, the homogeneous and generic nature of pretty much everything including news, views and a good proportion of the populace being dumbed down is reason enough to suggest to most moaning ‘mericans’ that if it’s so bloody wonderful it’s a good idea to head home and enjoy the “good life”.
The sad thing about this latest act of management malevolence is that it merely reinforces to flightcrew the reasons why they are on their way out the door. Ultimately the bond is a counterproductive policy borne out of a flawed and ill conceived reaction by those who clearly lack the intelligence and foresight to resolve the staff retention problems that are of their own making.
News flash, the ME isn’t America, it never was and it never will be, EK for it’s part demands it’s pound of flesh as it’s the nature of the beast.
For me, no amount of money could compensate me for having to endure living any length of time in America, the pervading smell of fried food, the homogeneous and generic nature of pretty much everything including news, views and a good proportion of the populace being dumbed down is reason enough to suggest to most moaning ‘mericans’ that if it’s so bloody wonderful it’s a good idea to head home and enjoy the “good life”.
The sad thing about this latest act of management malevolence is that it merely reinforces to flightcrew the reasons why they are on their way out the door. Ultimately the bond is a counterproductive policy borne out of a flawed and ill conceived reaction by those who clearly lack the intelligence and foresight to resolve the staff retention problems that are of their own making.
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Since you are Monarch I presume you are British. I have lived in Coventry . Money could make me go back . A lot , but I got a price . Sure we all do .
Look the contracts in the states are great . As the well as it being a diverse country with many different types of food . And many news channels in many languages. Wine , good wine . Lots of great stuff in the states . And Coventry . Think her name was Tracy .
Look the contracts in the states are great . As the well as it being a diverse country with many different types of food . And many news channels in many languages. Wine , good wine . Lots of great stuff in the states . And Coventry . Think her name was Tracy .
Since you are Monarch I presume you are British. I have lived in Coventry . Money could make me go back . A lot , but I got a price . Sure we all do .
Look the contracts in the states are great . As the well as it being a diverse country with many different types of food . And many news channels in many languages. Wine , good wine . Lots of great stuff in the states . And Coventry . Think her name was Tracy .
Look the contracts in the states are great . As the well as it being a diverse country with many different types of food . And many news channels in many languages. Wine , good wine . Lots of great stuff in the states . And Coventry . Think her name was Tracy .
Go back and read what I wrote...beyond my personal distaste for many American cultural peculiarities.
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Originally Posted by Neptune Spear
How many pilots that have left have said how much better they feel and how many pilots that have left say they want to come back? The answers to above are All and None.
Sadly we can't all live in the 'Good Ole US of A'. Unlike MM I would be very happy to take a job there and see out the later days of my career in the country where I learnt to fly and then instructed in... But we can't all get residential status!
Maybe one day
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I don’t know how the Green Card process works but I hear a lot of accents on the VHF radio nowadays. Inquire Big Man we would love to have you.
The government knows there is a pilot shortage and the last thing they want is grounded airplanes and overpaid pilots so hence I believe a lot of overseas pilots are coming to America.
Every US airline has huge retirements so now is the time to join and the contracts are only going to get better. Contrary to what is sometimes posted here not all airlines are going down.
Good luck.
The government knows there is a pilot shortage and the last thing they want is grounded airplanes and overpaid pilots so hence I believe a lot of overseas pilots are coming to America.
Every US airline has huge retirements so now is the time to join and the contracts are only going to get better. Contrary to what is sometimes posted here not all airlines are going down.
Good luck.
short flights long nights
Flion,
With much due respect, it all comes down to what you would want to get paid to be in your home country. I read your post and it’s spot on how the company corners you to stay in Dxb.
10yr 777 captain at Delta makes $335+ per credit hour. With work rules, profit sharing (that’s transparent), leave that’s awarded, sick time, and overall treatment there is no comparison. Somebody can correct me, but last year was just under 20% profit share. Do the math.
I fly a narrow body airplane at Delta and was previously an EK tractor captain. Hands down, a narrow body captain at Delta makes more money, has more benefits, and way better QOL than anyone at EK.
The ability to drop trips, move trips, and enjoy life is paramount.
You can have your money, I got my life back.
Safe flying to all,
CC
With much due respect, it all comes down to what you would want to get paid to be in your home country. I read your post and it’s spot on how the company corners you to stay in Dxb.
10yr 777 captain at Delta makes $335+ per credit hour. With work rules, profit sharing (that’s transparent), leave that’s awarded, sick time, and overall treatment there is no comparison. Somebody can correct me, but last year was just under 20% profit share. Do the math.
I fly a narrow body airplane at Delta and was previously an EK tractor captain. Hands down, a narrow body captain at Delta makes more money, has more benefits, and way better QOL than anyone at EK.
The ability to drop trips, move trips, and enjoy life is paramount.
You can have your money, I got my life back.
Safe flying to all,
CC
I thought..what the hell..lets give it a go.
Then began the longest (12 months ) hardest recruitment process I have ever been through..( and I have worked for 3 airlines including EK).
My initial application was in March 2016..and the recruitment process was finalised in Feb 2017...in March I was advised I was selected to start my 30 week course in July.
And can I say..Im having a ball. I love it!!!. Firstly..it is such a lovely lovely place to work, everyone can not do enough for you.
On the first day of our course, the Head of Training came in and told us.."Guys we know you do not know anything about driving trains, Thats why the course is 30 weeks long.WE get thousands of applicants for this job when we advertise , we have selected 45 of you..we are here to train you and get you trough the course".
The whole training..11 weeks classroom and the 19 weeks "on track" training has been complete "no threat" training. I have 6 weeks left until my final check. I made a mistake today and was getting very pissed off with myself as I should have known better by now and my instructor said..."Relax Mate, stop being so hard on yourself..you have been driving trains for 10 weeks, I ave been driving 20 years and I have done the same error many times"
There are rules that need to be followed..many, just like flying..one rule is..you are issued with an "official" watch..it can be sync with the train clock and you are required to wear it while driving....you can wear 10 watches if you like as long as one of them s the Railcar Issue one.
The other day, I forgot to wear it..I realised s I got to work I had on my "normal" aviation watch. I straight away went into "EK mode" thinking, nasty emails, warning letters, meetings withe EGT. I went to see the Depot Master ( the FDM) and told him I did not have my watch...his response?...'Don't worry mate..you are not the first..you certainly won't be the last..thats why we have a box of spares..."
I could go on about the 10 weeks annual leave..the 6 week ahead rosters..
My point is..the Sandpit ain't everything no matter how much they pay..aviation ain't everything...what you need to evaluate is....when you are on our death bed will you be happy you spent that extra year in the Sandpit?
Sorry for the long post
Regards to all
SOPS
