EK 40k $ bond for Captain Upgrades
Join Date: Dec 2012
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Eye tracking technology!
If “trainers” were tracking where hands were, EK 521 would not have happened.
Perhaps a “ trainer on this site, could bring it up with the B777 training manager. ( oh, but after the sevens are over, of course)
If “trainers” were tracking where hands were, EK 521 would not have happened.
Perhaps a “ trainer on this site, could bring it up with the B777 training manager. ( oh, but after the sevens are over, of course)
Join Date: Mar 2007
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Jockey69, judging by the rest of your posts that are in the 'Wannabies' section from only the last couple of years, you are a young cadet/trainee with little experience of the industry and its tactics. When you have a family and see them less and less each month, and the shiny jet syndrome has worn away then you may understand a little better.
Join Date: Oct 2009
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In all of this, people seem to be missing the biggest issue...the bond contract says that should you fail to complete the course FOR ANY REASON (excepting medical or redundancy) you are liable to pay back the 40k.
That means that should you fail the course, or should, for example, fleet decide at the end of your course that you've had more sick days than you should have, they'll simply turn around, kick you back to the Rhs and take your 40k. Fail twice, and as the document is written, you'll physically repay them 80k.
What reasonable, independent appeal process is there? And by extension then, what is to stop them failing every upgrade on the first go and only letting people through on the second go...thereby making sure they get their 40k off each and every NaC candidate?
I used to be glad that despite all the crap here, I'd be able to upgrade here, get some good money together and leave with a strong cv. No more. I will not start any course where the financial penalty is so great and the appeals process is so tenuous. Everybody knows someone who has been kicked off a course for questionable reasons.
I am really disappointed but I will turn down any command course in this airline until this absurd clause is removed.
That means that should you fail the course, or should, for example, fleet decide at the end of your course that you've had more sick days than you should have, they'll simply turn around, kick you back to the Rhs and take your 40k. Fail twice, and as the document is written, you'll physically repay them 80k.
What reasonable, independent appeal process is there? And by extension then, what is to stop them failing every upgrade on the first go and only letting people through on the second go...thereby making sure they get their 40k off each and every NaC candidate?
I used to be glad that despite all the crap here, I'd be able to upgrade here, get some good money together and leave with a strong cv. No more. I will not start any course where the financial penalty is so great and the appeals process is so tenuous. Everybody knows someone who has been kicked off a course for questionable reasons.
I am really disappointed but I will turn down any command course in this airline until this absurd clause is removed.
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I haven't read the contract, but the way i see it, you don't have to repay anything. You simply have to stay the amount of time stipulated, or pay a pro rate of the mentioned sum. So even if you fail the upgrade, no payment or loss of salary involved, unless you leave before time.
I don't particularly such tactics, they only blatantly expose the incompetence of the management, however let's keep it in a reasonable context. Even DECs were bonded since 2003 and no one complained there!
I don't particularly such tactics, they only blatantly expose the incompetence of the management, however let's keep it in a reasonable context. Even DECs were bonded since 2003 and no one complained there!
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Join Date: Oct 2009
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I haven't read the contract, but the way i see it, you don't have to repay anything. You simply have to stay the amount of time stipulated, or pay a pro rate of the mentioned sum. So even if you fail the upgrade, no payment or loss of salary involved, unless you leave before time.
I don't particularly such tactics, they only blatantly expose the incompetence of the management, however let's keep it in a reasonable context. Even DECs were bonded since 2003 and no one complained there!
I don't particularly such tactics, they only blatantly expose the incompetence of the management, however let's keep it in a reasonable context. Even DECs were bonded since 2003 and no one complained there!
See your inbox!
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Join Date: Jun 2005
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I dont understand why people are making a fuss over bonding. Its common place in most companies to tie their employees down in order to recoup the outlay for training. In my company it is 3 years F/O and 1.5 years Cpt, and that´s in Europe......
My question has been answered guys thanks .. so as I see it, if you are returned to the Rhs,for any reason, you will be bonded for a job that you already have ?? The only difference is the license will be endorsed as P1 but you can’t operate as commander ...
The P2 rating no longer exists and is not an option once you get the new licence anyway.
You’re correct, my mistake, but you cant build CM1 time from the rhs unless you are providing training . essentially it would be an extension of the F/o bond, you will sit in the rhs be paid as an f/o and still be subject to the upgrade bond, have I got that right ?
Join Date: May 2014
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Can we please stop with the comparisons with EK and The Majors? There is no comparison unless one likes to be treated like crap with veiled threats and substandard pay.
A Delta narrowbody Captain makes more than a Emirates widebody captain and works considerably less in far more humane conditions. Full stop and end of discussion. I know I have worked at both. How many of the posters here can say the same? Some I know but certainly not even close to half.
We can argue about T and Cs hourly rates days off anything at all but the big takeaway is at the end of each month I have more money in my pocket and I feel a whole helluva lot better than I did at EK. No question and it’s not even close.
This just makes me think when pilots try and defend Emirates what are they trying to defend and why the defense? There is no comparison!
A Delta narrowbody Captain makes more than a Emirates widebody captain and works considerably less in far more humane conditions. Full stop and end of discussion. I know I have worked at both. How many of the posters here can say the same? Some I know but certainly not even close to half.
We can argue about T and Cs hourly rates days off anything at all but the big takeaway is at the end of each month I have more money in my pocket and I feel a whole helluva lot better than I did at EK. No question and it’s not even close.
This just makes me think when pilots try and defend Emirates what are they trying to defend and why the defense? There is no comparison!
Join Date: Oct 2016
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Can we please stop with the comparisons with EK and The Majors? There is no comparison unless one likes to be treated like crap with veiled threats and substandard pay.
A Delta narrowbody Captain makes more than a Emirates widebody captain and works considerably less in far more humane conditions. Full stop and end of discussion. I know I have worked at both. How many of the posters here can say the same? Some I know but certainly not even close to half.
We can argue about T and Cs hourly rates days off anything at all but the big takeaway is at the end of each month I have more money in my pocket and I feel a whole helluva lot better than I did at EK. No question and it’s not even close.
This just makes me think when pilots try and defend Emirates what are they trying to defend and why the defense? There is no comparison!
A Delta narrowbody Captain makes more than a Emirates widebody captain and works considerably less in far more humane conditions. Full stop and end of discussion. I know I have worked at both. How many of the posters here can say the same? Some I know but certainly not even close to half.
We can argue about T and Cs hourly rates days off anything at all but the big takeaway is at the end of each month I have more money in my pocket and I feel a whole helluva lot better than I did at EK. No question and it’s not even close.
This just makes me think when pilots try and defend Emirates what are they trying to defend and why the defense? There is no comparison!
1) Costa trolls
2) like you mentioned, people who do not have that experience. and, among those, the young and single ones.
They defend it because they like it and it gives them food.
If I could I'd quit aviation altogether.
since I can't, if I could I'd accept any job at Delta. even bag handler.
since I can't.....
in EK I stay, and I love it. wait... No.
Regards,
Kippa
Join Date: Dec 2002
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Can we please stop with the comparisons with EK and The Majors? There is no comparison unless one likes to be treated like crap with veiled threats and substandard pay.
A Delta narrowbody Captain makes more than a Emirates widebody captain and works considerably less in far more humane conditions. Full stop and end of discussion. I know I have worked at both. How many of the posters here can say the same? Some I know but certainly not even close to half.
We can argue about T and Cs hourly rates days off anything at all but the big takeaway is at the end of each month I have more money in my pocket and I feel a whole helluva lot better than I did at EK. No question and it’s not even close.
This just makes me think when pilots try and defend Emirates what are they trying to defend and why the defense? There is no comparison!
A Delta narrowbody Captain makes more than a Emirates widebody captain and works considerably less in far more humane conditions. Full stop and end of discussion. I know I have worked at both. How many of the posters here can say the same? Some I know but certainly not even close to half.
We can argue about T and Cs hourly rates days off anything at all but the big takeaway is at the end of each month I have more money in my pocket and I feel a whole helluva lot better than I did at EK. No question and it’s not even close.
This just makes me think when pilots try and defend Emirates what are they trying to defend and why the defense? There is no comparison!
I’m a 10+ yr Capt on the tractor
Salary 43100
Flying /prod low avg 6000
Housing 16,100
Prov 6500
Per diem low avg 2000
Edu support for 2 kids 12,100 (I include this because I can use that to send them to any private boarding school in world). I do not need to live in a high Tax municipality in the US in order to get into a good school district
Medical/ dental essentially very low cost - both kids braces paid for by Co.
Transport to from work free.
So in total
85,800 = $23,315 essentially Tax free. I pay some but not much so you need to multiply that number by 1.2 to account for taxes and that’s being conservative.
That’s gross of 27,978 or $335,736pa
If you have a spouse that works you would also need to add the tax advantages to the overall picture as it would be an immediate hit to the family’s bottom line should her line of work be transferred to a taxed state. So if both parents working the tax advantages need to be taken into account - they are quite significant.
No one arguing about the treatment - it’s a pure disgrace here - but when wife and kids are happy and you add up the numbers it becomes less easy for some to justify the move while kids are thriving in school, sports & social.
The problem is the Co knows it - and it’s the handcuffs they use.
I am not for a minute suggesting anyone stay but let’s be objective when we are talking numbers.
I suspect Delta is higher than above but it’s not a no brainer even if you take away the Edu support it’s still $288,391 here - gross.
Above open to correction - and yes Dubai is expensive for staples.
Go ahead with you rates.
Join Date: Jul 2002
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Filion.
I have to disagree
I am hearing where you are comming from. However. Your figures regarding housing cannot be compared. If you think paying 16100 aed to love in a concrete block in the desert is appropriate then that's cool. As for education. At this moment I'm not too sure yet. I have 1 child just started but I'm not sure we get same international standard as we would in some other place in the world. Just my two cents and not arguing against you.
I wonder what is worth being in the desert tho under present conditions.
At the moment there are so many contracts out there that pay more. It may mean being away from family for 2 weeks but the end game is more in the pocket I would say.
Respect for all. Fly safe folks. Just opening dialogue
I have to disagree
I am hearing where you are comming from. However. Your figures regarding housing cannot be compared. If you think paying 16100 aed to love in a concrete block in the desert is appropriate then that's cool. As for education. At this moment I'm not too sure yet. I have 1 child just started but I'm not sure we get same international standard as we would in some other place in the world. Just my two cents and not arguing against you.
I wonder what is worth being in the desert tho under present conditions.
At the moment there are so many contracts out there that pay more. It may mean being away from family for 2 weeks but the end game is more in the pocket I would say.
Respect for all. Fly safe folks. Just opening dialogue
Join Date: Jul 2002
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At the end of the day. If your earning 23k each month as a 10 year captain at emirates then if your spending 20k just being here and putting up with it all then why are we here.
Join Date: Dec 2002
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Filion.
I have to disagree
I am hearing where you are comming from. However. Your figures regarding housing cannot be compared. If you think paying 16100 aed to love in a concrete block in the desert is appropriate then that's cool. As for education. At this moment I'm not too sure yet. I have 1 child just started but I'm not sure we get same international standard as we would in some other place in the world. Just my two cents and not arguing against you.
I wonder what is worth being in the desert tho under present conditions.
At the moment there are so many contracts out there that pay more. It may mean being away from family for 2 weeks but the end game is more in the pocket I would say.
Respect for all. Fly safe folks. Just opening dialogue
I have to disagree
I am hearing where you are comming from. However. Your figures regarding housing cannot be compared. If you think paying 16100 aed to love in a concrete block in the desert is appropriate then that's cool. As for education. At this moment I'm not too sure yet. I have 1 child just started but I'm not sure we get same international standard as we would in some other place in the world. Just my two cents and not arguing against you.
I wonder what is worth being in the desert tho under present conditions.
At the moment there are so many contracts out there that pay more. It may mean being away from family for 2 weeks but the end game is more in the pocket I would say.
Respect for all. Fly safe folks. Just opening dialogue