Be aware of Korean air

[dbrown76]

Originally Posted by tomuchwork

Well, it is Korea for gods sake. Of COURSE they are complicated, of course they do not like expats. But the expats actually safe their ass because they cant by themself as their culture does not allow them to be proper pilots. Korean in a nutshell.

Tried a very long time ago to join their outfit, thanks god they did not accept my application back in 2010. Had tons of hours on a A300-600 in command, their only reply was "he has no experience of any significance to our operation". Was upset a bit back then but I learned that it was most likely very good for me not being accepted. Very strange culture and airline. No wonder about their accident record.

From current posts - they are still searching right now? My god. A country like south Korea is not able to fill the slots of it's own lousy airline with own people speaks a very clear language. This is ongoing now for at least 10 years.

More and more glad to stick with my crappy european low cost operator before dealing with this mungos. Especially - what are they paying to a skipper this days in Korean? And this for 8 days off?

Yeah, you don't have a chip on your shoulder or anything...

[Mgggpilot]

Originally Posted by DALTA

any thought on that ?

I love asia, i am single and no plan to get a wife nor kids. I have 2000 hrs on the 737NG and i am currently flying for Ryanair with 4 sectors days. I am not in a rush to get the upgrade and i can still move after few years in KAL.

How is the atmosphere in the cockpit ?
How is the interview process ? how many guys are successful ?

I would like to get a neutral advice please

Thanks a lot !

are you serious no plans to get a kid or wife?
Ooh dear let me stop here.
Good luck by the way.

[DALTA]

Originally Posted by Mgggpilot

are you serious no plans to get a kid or wife?
Ooh dear let me stop here.
Good luck by the way.

Yes currently no plans to get a kid or wife, that's a personal choice, probably later on when i will be 35+

I've sent a message to a FO who worked for them for 4 years on the 737NG. He is French and in his late 20's. I asked him what is his opinion and there is his anwser :

​​​​​​
Korean Air was for me, so far, the best airline experience. I’ve seen charter airlines flag carrier (KAL) and now low cost and I would, at all times, choose for flag carriers again. In my case, I needed the job at KAL because my company went bust. If you go to KAL, you have to realise that you may have the opportunity to go on longhaul, but you will NEVER be able to upgrade within KAL. You would have a 5 year contract and therefore no seniority as opposed to the Koreans who have permanent contracts. As the Korean culture is very different from my own, it took me about 1-1,5 years to realise what the hell they want from me, but after that I had a fantastic time. The advantage of the 737 fleet is that it is the “beginners fleet” for both the left and right seat, which means your captain who spent about 10-15 years as an FO on longhaul will most of the time just have finished with his upgrade. They are mostly young and in a new function, so most of the time they are very nice and open to suggestions. The key is how you communicate with them. Diplomacy is key. If you master this, you get pretty much whatever you want in this company. KAL is not a “raw data manual flight” kind of airline. They have a “no failure policy” with regards to their maintenance, which means you’ll always have a spotless (and clean) airplane. I can remember of only two MEL’s in 4 years. Also, we shut down the engines everytime with around 5-10 tons of fuel. KAL flies under FAR rules which means discretionary fuel is subject to a joint responsibility between the PIC and the dispatcher, . This means you’ll always get extremely conservative flight plans in terms of fuel. Training. It takes 5-8 months in which they don’t let you go home. These months are, for most, not perceived as funny. There is a life before final line check and one after that. It’s the life after training in KAL thats really nice. The roster. You have 6 “hard days” off, additionally you have 3 “soft days” off (which KAL would use to get you from home in case the Koreans would go on strike). Additionally you have 3 travel days. Also, you have 24 annual leave days which you can add to any of your off days. Then you have 10 sick leave days per year, which many make use of as well. Salary. On the 737, I earned 6500 USD per month tax free. South Korea has a tax agreement with many countries which enables you to avoid taxation. I addition, you’ll get per diems on an two accounts in a korean bank. One in Won for domestic flights, one in USD for Intl. flights. To conclude my story, if there would have been possibility or another to, one day, upgrade to captain, I would have stayed in KAL until retirement. This company doesn’t necessarly makes a lot of net profit (in fact except from 2017, they always made loss), but I think it’s safe to bet on the fact that, as long as the Korean flag is shown on their airplanes’ tail, they will not let it go bust.

[bia botal]

Originally Posted by Armani

Any Commanders currently working there on the B777 that can shed light on how things are, and the failure rate?

read all above!

[badmannen]

Originally Posted by Oliver72

Hi,
I'm currently flying the B737 in Europe for a low cost, commuting contract on 5-5. Working 5 days, 2 days commute, 3 days at home.
Flying a 50-50 4 sectors, 2 sectors.
I'm considering applying for DEC at KE on the 737, mostly to reduce my monthly commuting and spend more quality time at home.
One of the reason also is that I would like one day to move to a long haul fleet without going back on the right seat.

I have 2 questions
-Comparing to what I'm doing atm, how is the 737 roster and destination like ? We'll it be kind of similar to what I have now? Lot of 4 sectors, small airport with no procedures,...
-Will I have a chance one day to move to the 777? Absolutely no rush, I'm not the kind of person who change company every 2 years so I will have no problem with a wait of even 8 years let's say..

Any recent infos on the 737 roster, salary, will be appreciate.

Oliver

Internet is good tool . use it =D

here you go Oliver, here you see all the routes on KAL with 737
https://www.flightsfrom.com/ICN/dest...&aircrafts=737

PM. me if you would like a roster example for the fleet

[badmannen]

small update if anyone is interested.

I do not pretend to know how it actually is to work in KAL. but I went to the interview process recently,
Everything is very well organised and no surprises,

Currently there are more or less 100 cpts from Emirates applying to KAL for various reasons , I don´t say that is any indication of that Emirates is not good or that KAL is better, Everyone have their own reasons for changing company but it is just a fact as of today.

All info you can get from the various agencies that are you can apply through seems to mostly accurate regarding .,, roster , salary, commuting etc.
They are all very friendly and if you go there you better adjust to their way of doing the things, (just like in any company you will join anywhere )

Any if anyone is interesting to have a look at it it takes about 4 days to go until you are back again, once day for each test is the normal, Psychology test, Simulator, medical tests and the interview. You travel back and forth in confirmed Business class so it is a very nice and relaxed experience all together.

[lucky_strike]

Hi Badmanen

Can you please share about the questions asked in the interview and about the psychometric test what it is exactly ?

Also so if you have time to shed some light on the medical tests and sim profile it would be even better.

If you can pm me the 737 roster too it will be much appreciated.

Thanks a a ton in advance

[badmannen]

Originally Posted by lucky_strike

Hi Badmanen

Can you please share about the questions asked in the interview and about the psychometric test what it is exactly ?

Also so if you have time to shed some light on the medical tests and sim profile it would be even better.

If you can pm me the 737 roster too it will be much appreciated.

Thanks a a ton in advance

Hey lucky_strike I would suggest you to just contact any agency of interest , they will provide you with the most up to date information of what you are asking . they do not bite

[Miks737]

Hi Jack, I’m considering the 737 captain vacancy in Korean. You mentioned your best friend worked 8 years with them. May I request some more information please? Maybe better still, his email address after checking with him. Thanks

[tgo15]

captain from chinese airlines company to kal, anyone?

hello guys,
any expat pilots who used to work in China before joining KAL?
if yes please PM me.

[tomuchwork]

I don't know. Had a read throught the last page of 737 drivers going(or thinking about) joining KAL. Now, some of them are obviously RYR(easy to pick really), now, I thought joining them(KAL) on the 737 by myself, contacted an agency, got a nice answer. JUST - the figures are just not right. More or less I would earn LESS(yes, not a mistake) then I do currently in RYR in my prefered base on a RYR contract. So, I thought to myself, why the hell would I go on a KAL contract(which is not KAL but some agency) to earn less and be away from Europe and home.

Now, there was this 5/5 guy, obviously a contractor for RYR making a S**tload of money on that and complaining about commuting. Well, go 13/5 then. Do you think you will not commute on a KAL contract(on significantly less money you make on a 5/5 agency if I make already more on 5/4 RYR)?

Get you facts straight. I understand the urge to leave(I was young once by myself and preferd to shoot out of "the hip" instead of thinking through things. But hell - leaving RYR for KAL. My god. Not a chance. To many improvements here and to less of the same in Korea. Plus a long commute(don't care if it is "Gold" class, still have to deal with annoying security every month, immigrations, sit in a bloody tube for hours to go home. Instead here I go to the airport, have a quick walk through security(you need to choose your country and base wisely in RYR), fly my 4 sectors, go home. More flying for sure, minimum same money, plus retirement, plus social. And then there is Korean. Hard choice.

[Jetstreamer737]

Originally Posted by badmannen

small update if anyone is interested.

I do not pretend to know how it actually is to work in KAL. but I went to the interview process recently,
Everything is very well organised and no surprises,

Currently there are more or less 100 cpts from Emirates applying to KAL for various reasons , I don´t say that is any indication of that Emirates is not good or that KAL is better, Everyone have their own reasons for changing company but it is just a fact as of today.

All info you can get from the various agencies that are you can apply through seems to mostly accurate regarding .,, roster , salary, commuting etc.
They are all very friendly and if you go there you better adjust to their way of doing the things, (just like in any company you will join anywhere )

Any if anyone is interesting to have a look at it it takes about 4 days to go until you are back again, once day for each test is the normal, Psychology test, Simulator, medical tests and the interview. You travel back and forth in confirmed Business class so it is a very nice and relaxed experience all together.

Can I check which agency you went with? The Emirates Cpts - 777 or 380 mostly?

[bringbackthe80s]

Just ALWAYS remember any advise is as good as the person giving it.

Just with reference to some of the comments above.
If I were in your position I would only listen to people who ACTUALLY flew both in Asia and Europe (not someone who’s only seen london and malaga), do anything with an open mind, and you’ll enjoy if you choose to change.

The money for a captain is similar at all decent airlines (I stress decent, both for too much money or very little money) so salary should have little meaning in your decision making.

[Emma Royds]

CCL were in the UAE last week. Steady recruitment for the 777 for the foreseeable future. Not sure about the A380 though.

What is of interest is the demographics of those applying from EK has changed. More younger Captains are applying with the average length of service at EK reducing in years too. Make of that what you will.

[motley flight crue]

Korean have been steadily recruiting since the late 80’s, read into that as you will.

[The Dominican]

So has Air Japan been on a constant hiring cycle, you can't judge these gigs for that reason alone. There is a simple fact about all these expat gigs and it is the fact that there are no better options back home for us because of age, marital status, economic reasons and so forth, all these expat gigs fill a gap, they are not ideal by far nor this was the career we envisioned for ourselves when we started flying!
Both Korean and Air Japan have the best commuting conditions of any other expat gig out there so for people that want to escape the sandbox or are tired of the ridiculous nonsense that is China, then they become a choice but only as default and certainly NOT because they are your ideal choice for a retirement job; Both of them come plagued with cultural implications that can be from annoying to just plain stupid, and in both cases the local pilots believe that it is good airmanship, they are convinced of that and if you don't conform that will make your life in those two companies very hard indeed!
Do people make it work? Sure, I've been at Air Japan for 13 years but if there was a chance back home, even for a lot less money, I wouldn't put up with the ridiculous stupidity that is training in Asia!

It might work for you until it doesn't, it is that simple! And it doesn't matter one bit if it is contract or direct employment, you work for them until it no longer works for them, they have many ways to make it unbearable enough for you that you will do the dirty work for them and leave!

[bringbackthe80s]

Absolutely agree.
It’s all about how you want to live your life, and if you see these expats jobs as a means to experience new places and environments then we can agree that our generation has many opportunities that would have been unthinkable decades ago. Yes, there will be a lot of head nodding and many, many times you’ll be wondering if they’re seriously asking you to do what they’re asking you to do.
On the flip side, in many of these countries you’ll be treated with most respect and professionalism and not like a high school kid, given much much time for training, and enjoy probably the best mantainance and airport ops you’ll ever see.

If you’re someone who thinks mostly about pension contributions and the next holiday with extended family, then I strongly suggest to stay home or very close to home.

Would I advise a young copilot to come to Asia? Absolutely not.
But if you’re an experienced captain with years or decades of good training, then flying as an expat will expose you to many new situations and will eventually make you a better pilot than someone who spent the last 20 years in the same environment, but most importantly will make you a better and more flexible person.

[ironbutt57]

change the name of the thread to "Beware of Aviation" and be done with it....L.O.B.

[md-100]

Anyone hired in last months here?

[nolimitholdem]

I get spammed with contract jobs on LinkedIn all the time, idly picking through the latest KAL offering it seemed they've reduced the package from 10 days to 9 - is that correct?

Benefits

• 11 consecutive days off at home each month (9 days off + 2 annual leave days) + an additional 2-3 travel days

I always thought it was 10 days (+2 annual leave days, + 2 travel days).

If that's the case I would think reducing your T & C by 10% isn't a great strategy to stoke interest lol.

Much better options in Vietnam these days in pay and roster, not to mention culture - if commuting's your thing.