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Emirates A388 - Moscow UUDD, GA from 400 feet AGL, 8nm out.

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Emirates A388 - Moscow UUDD, GA from 400 feet AGL, 8nm out.

Old 19th Sep 2017, 17:23
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what you don't think that being at a 8 mile final at 400 ft agl or lower isn't a huge deal ?
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Old 19th Sep 2017, 17:25
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the title of the thread needs to be changed, egpws at 400 AGL instead of a simple go around, comprende
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Old 19th Sep 2017, 18:21
  #43 (permalink)  
 
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Must have been just after sunset.

10nm from Domodedovo Rwy 14 would put them just over the outer edges of the well-lit Moscow suburbs. Reported as Cavok.
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Old 19th Sep 2017, 18:30
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Guys, if you look at it from another angle, would it be possible the crew intercepted and were flying down a ILS sidelobe with a false glide path, which would them shown an on glide indication right until impact.
At 400 agl they then penetrated the terrain clearance floor, and got the GPWS too low terrain.
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Old 19th Sep 2017, 18:31
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False or temporarily spoofed (possible?) GS?
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Old 19th Sep 2017, 18:48
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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From the FlightRadar24 .kml file of the EK 131 track the lowest point I see prior to the successful approach is:

2017-09-10 17:53:39 UTC

Altitude: 975 ft
Speed: 157 kt
Heading: 201°
Originally Posted by DaveReidUK
Avherald has a history of misinterpreting ADS-B data, so the "400 feet AGL" needs to be taken with a pinch of salt.

No mention anywhere of the prevailing QNH, so no way of telling what adjustment the transponder data needs in order to produce an accurate height AMSL or AGL, or whether that was done by AH.
Originally Posted by gearlever
uudd 101800z 18004mps cavok 15/11 q1015 r88/010095 nosig
975 feet minus field elevation of 593 gives 382 feet above the field at what I measure to be about 7 nm to the runway threshold. QNH is 1015 hPa so the correction is small (~50 feet?) and we don't know the local elevation where they were but it doesn't look like a valley to me.

So, 400 feet, 600 feet or 300 feet, it's nowhere an A380 should be on approach that far out.

On the first pass it appears that they never intercepted the centerline for 14R and continued on about a 190 heading for the go around. On the second approach they seemed to make a level pass at approach speed at a FR24 indicated altitude of 2550 feet after overshooting final slightly and then paralleling the extended runway centerline slightly to the left. The third approach appears normal with a dogleg intercept to final and an appropriate descent.
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Old 19th Sep 2017, 20:15
  #47 (permalink)  
 
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GoAround of EK-131 on 12. and 13. of Sep as well.
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Old 19th Sep 2017, 21:07
  #48 (permalink)  
 
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There muss indeed be more to the story
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Old 20th Sep 2017, 01:01
  #49 (permalink)  
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If you are flying on QNH, set both sides, it doesn't hurt to put the standby altimeter on QFE? Way, way back I seem to remember we did this very occasionally on the B744, possibly Jo'burg..
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Old 20th Sep 2017, 03:23
  #50 (permalink)  
 
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We did the opposite on the Global-main altimeters in QFE, standby on QNH. Gave a cross check.
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Old 20th Sep 2017, 05:29
  #51 (permalink)  
 
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A380 Go Around(S)

The only thing I know about A380 is that it is butt ugly!
However, modern airliners that I am familiar with, like the 787,777, and 744 all have radio altimeters that depict absolute height above ground below 2500' AGL. Regardless of problems with setting QNH, QFE, QNE or other pressure measuring instrument.
The EGWPS on these aircraft, and I am sure on the A380, is an extremely complicated piece of technology designed to handle just about every screw up, including mine and yours.
The thing must have been going crazy when these folks ended up at less than 400' from the ground and nowhere near a landing runway! Especially in day VFR with good visibility.
I have no problem with going around, but perhaps airlines like Emirates should take a pause in their quest for conquering the globe and pay more attention to crew rest, training, experience, and overall safety!
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Old 20th Sep 2017, 05:42
  #52 (permalink)  
 
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Yes indeed you know nothing about the 380 and trust me it s a great plane to fly and yes it has the all the technology you need even a radio altimeter which starts at 2500 agl and if you read a bit more it was by night 1800 utc in Russia.Your last sentence make a bit more sense
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Old 20th Sep 2017, 06:38
  #53 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Airbubba
we don't know the local elevation where they were but it doesn't look like a valley to me
Correct.

The 975' AMSL point (± the QNH correction, which we now know was negligible) occurred just as the track was approaching the Gorki Leninskiye ("Lenin Hills" - the clue's in the name), one of the highest points in the Greater Moscow area at approximately 720' AMSL.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sparrow_Hills
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Old 20th Sep 2017, 07:43
  #54 (permalink)  
 
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Situational awareness: Fail

Last edited by ManaAdaSystem; 20th Sep 2017 at 11:38.
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Old 20th Sep 2017, 10:00
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Originally Posted by DaveReidUK
Correct.

The 975' AMSL point (± the QNH correction, which we now know was negligible) occurred just as the track was approaching the Gorki Leninskiye ("Lenin Hills" - the clue's in the name), one of the highest points in the Greater Moscow area at approximately 720' AMSL.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sparrow_Hills
according to "A6EEZ_eceac34" from FR24

1505066057, 2017-09-10T17:54:17Z, UAE131, "55.502243, 37.761009", 2150, 142, 208
1505066034, 2017-09-10T17:53:54Z, UAE131, "55.515976, 37.767918", 1550, 146, 176
1505066025, 2017-09-10T17:53:45Z, UAE131, "55.523365, 37.767906", 1125, 154, 188
1505066019, 2017-09-10T17:53:39Z, UAE131, "55.527603, 37.769794", 975, 157, 201
1505066012, 2017-09-10T17:53:32Z, UAE131, "55.532257, 37.773743", 1075, 156, 211
1505066005, 2017-09-10T17:53:25Z, UAE131, "55.536346, 37.77932", 1275, 157, 221
1505065999, 2017-09-10T17:53:19Z, UAE131, "55.539001, 37.783482", 1450, 157, 221
1505065992, 2017-09-10T17:53:12Z, UAE131, "55.542572, 37.789223", 1675, 155, 222

the lowest altitude 975 ft is hereabout with local elevation ~580 ft

It looks like farm field
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
975 ft.jpg (271.6 KB, 108 views)
File Type: jpg
975 ft -2.jpg (349.6 KB, 107 views)
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Old 20th Sep 2017, 10:16
  #56 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by DaveReidUK
For the sake of correctness the link should be this one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorki_Leninskiye

Lenin's hills and Sparrow hills are way too far from each other.
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Old 20th Sep 2017, 10:40
  #57 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Anvaldra
It looks like farm field
I said "approaching", not "overhead".

The dark area in the bottom left of your first GE screenshot, just below the pin in your second, is start of the wooded hill overlooking the Moscow river, which he would have directly overflown had he continued the left turn onto the runway heading.
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Old 20th Sep 2017, 11:32
  #58 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Anvaldra
the lowest altitude 975 ft is hereabout with local elevation ~580 ft
I agree with that. (elev 580').

As mentioned in another thread, for a flight tracking project I've learned how to position a camera point of view precisely in Google Maps/Earth.

Using the data above, this should simulate the approximate view from the cockpit at the lowest point in the approach (camera positioned at the respective coordinate, 120m AGL, heading 201°) (click on the link, needs a WebGL capable browser)
https://www.google.de/maps/@55.52760.../data=!3m1!1e3

Last edited by End_of_Descent; 20th Sep 2017 at 12:29.
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Old 20th Sep 2017, 11:58
  #59 (permalink)  
 
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Dave, believe me - it's hardly to call it "hill". I drive there often. It's just a relief drop towards Pakhra river (not Moscow, but it matters little)
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Old 20th Sep 2017, 15:06
  #60 (permalink)  
 
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FlightAware has this point in its EK 131 dataset which seems to correlate with the FR24 data:

Sun 17:53:36 UTC
N55.5289 E37.7707
Course 204° Southwest
156 knots
1,000 feet
-200 v/s
Reporting Facility: FlightAware ADS-B (DME / UUDD)
Flight Track Log UAE131 10-Sep-2017 DXB / OMDB - DME / UUDD FlightAware (may require a login to view)
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