EK / Seychelles near miss - 14 July '17
Roger is nobodies buddy PJ. He is the guy who drinks your beer and throws up in your car.
Sorry Praise Jebus, ROGER is still in the AIP in Australia as a useable term.
ROGER: I have received all of your last transmission (under NO circumstances to be used in reply to a question requiring READBACK or a direct answer in the affirmative or negative).
Source: Australian AIP GEN 3.4 - 20
ROGER: I have received all of your last transmission (under NO circumstances to be used in reply to a question requiring READBACK or a direct answer in the affirmative or negative).
Source: Australian AIP GEN 3.4 - 20
Not sure whitey but I believe he can't surf.
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Charlie x 2 is from maritime signals, the flags used to communicate stand for individual letters. In addition some flags have a single word meaning as well, it happens that the flag that means YES is the "C" flag or of course Charlie. (I'll mention TCAS, and SA to add relevance to this thread)
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Originally Posted by fliion
Can any of the Bus guys shed light on what these 380 headset/noise canceling ASR's are all about.
Specifically what is the issue?
Specifically what is the issue?
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Of course PJ; I didn't think of maritime flags. And I still use 'roger' to indicate that I've understood a message that doesn't pertain to a clearance or similar
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"Instructions transmitted are to be complied with and, in most cases, should be read back to reduce the chance of any ambiguity or misunderstanding, e.g. ‘G-ABCD, taxi to the apron via taxiway Charlie’. Chapter 2 specifies those instructions that are to be read back in full. However, if the instruction is short, clear and unambiguous, acknowledgment of the instruction using standard phraseology such as ‘Roger’ (I have received all your last transmission) or ‘Wilco’ (I understand your message and will comply with it) is preferred for the sake of brevity in the use of radiotelephony transmission time." - UK Radiotelephony Manual CAP 413
https://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP413v21_6.pdf
http://www.skybrary.aero/bookshelf/books/115.pdf
https://contentzone.eurocontrol.int/...y/Default.aspx
So yes, "Roger" has a place in RT. As long as mandatory items are read back, it is not misused. ("Charlie, Charlie" however,... that's just nonsense, unless you sail a ship.)
Don't tell me that when ATC tells you: "Traffic, 10 o'clock, passing left to right, climbing to FL360, 1000 feet below you, Airbus 320", you read back the entire message?
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Don't tell me that when ATC tells you: "Traffic, 10 o'clock, passing left to right, climbing to FL360, 1000 feet below you, Airbus 320", you read back the entire message?
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Not just in AIPs, but it's ICAO standard phraseology.
"Instructions transmitted are to be complied with and, in most cases, should be read back to reduce the chance of any ambiguity or misunderstanding, e.g. ‘G-ABCD, taxi to the apron via taxiway Charlie’. Chapter 2 specifies those instructions that are to be read back in full. However, if the instruction is short, clear and unambiguous, acknowledgment of the instruction using standard phraseology such as ‘Roger’ (I have received all your last transmission) or ‘Wilco’ (I understand your message and will comply with it) is preferred for the sake of brevity in the use of radiotelephony transmission time." - UK Radiotelephony Manual CAP 413
https://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP413v21_6.pdf
http://www.skybrary.aero/bookshelf/books/115.pdf
https://contentzone.eurocontrol.int/...y/Default.aspx
So yes, "Roger" has a place in RT. As long as mandatory items are read back, it is not misused. ("Charlie, Charlie" however,... that's just nonsense, unless you sail a ship.)
Don't tell me that when ATC tells you: "Traffic, 10 o'clock, passing left to right, climbing to FL360, 1000 feet below you, Airbus 320", you read back the entire message?
"Instructions transmitted are to be complied with and, in most cases, should be read back to reduce the chance of any ambiguity or misunderstanding, e.g. ‘G-ABCD, taxi to the apron via taxiway Charlie’. Chapter 2 specifies those instructions that are to be read back in full. However, if the instruction is short, clear and unambiguous, acknowledgment of the instruction using standard phraseology such as ‘Roger’ (I have received all your last transmission) or ‘Wilco’ (I understand your message and will comply with it) is preferred for the sake of brevity in the use of radiotelephony transmission time." - UK Radiotelephony Manual CAP 413
https://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP413v21_6.pdf
http://www.skybrary.aero/bookshelf/books/115.pdf
https://contentzone.eurocontrol.int/...y/Default.aspx
So yes, "Roger" has a place in RT. As long as mandatory items are read back, it is not misused. ("Charlie, Charlie" however,... that's just nonsense, unless you sail a ship.)
Don't tell me that when ATC tells you: "Traffic, 10 o'clock, passing left to right, climbing to FL360, 1000 feet below you, Airbus 320", you read back the entire message?
Charlie Charlie is not such a term.
Last edited by The Outlaw; 27th Jul 2017 at 06:34.
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But No Noise Cancelling on the Noisy Tractor?
Yet, on the famously noisy Tractor flight deck, there are rarely noice cancelling headsets, and yet there are never any ASR from the Boeing side for this matter.
Not trying to start a flame-war of A vs. B, I'm just honestly curious about this seemingly ironic matter, the quiet airplane gets the noise cancelling?
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At the risk of thread drift, I'm curious why the A380 whose flight deck is known to be very quiet, require noise cancelling headsets and it seems to be an "Air Safety" event when one is not found,
Yet, on the famously noisy Tractor flight deck, there are rarely noice cancelling headsets, and yet there are never any ASR from the Boeing side for this matter.
Not trying to start a flame-war of A vs. B, I'm just honestly curious about this seemingly ironic matter, the quiet airplane gets the noise cancelling?
Yet, on the famously noisy Tractor flight deck, there are rarely noice cancelling headsets, and yet there are never any ASR from the Boeing side for this matter.
Not trying to start a flame-war of A vs. B, I'm just honestly curious about this seemingly ironic matter, the quiet airplane gets the noise cancelling?
The Company should first find a few bucks to retrofit the whole fleet with hot mic feature.
The problem is one pilot will have noise cancelling and the other won't. 380 ops are done on intercom. It isn't undoable but it isn't the way it was designed to be done. If the issue isn't raised it won't be fixed.
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There is much more to this story and we've all been in this situation before. Let's not judge based on conjecture and some u tube video produced by someone with obvious ties to the Seychelles.
Thanks for the clarification Bus driver man. Good intel
Another threat drift: Can some of you guys, more specifically on the 777 move the mic a little further away from your mouth? Thanks - the rest of us trying to understand you.
Thanks for the clarification Bus driver man. Good intel
Another threat drift: Can some of you guys, more specifically on the 777 move the mic a little further away from your mouth? Thanks - the rest of us trying to understand you.
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On climb-out with gear up and maximum climb power (no de-rate) the cockpit is about 80-82db. Noise cancelling headsets are not needed, especially when most wear it over one ear.
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Then how will all the yanks answer yes/no questions?
