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Finally a commuting roster on the 777!

Middle East Many expats still flying in Knoteetingham. Regional issues can be discussed here.

Finally a commuting roster on the 777!

Old 6th Apr 2017, 08:51
  #61 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: South of North
Posts: 656
$19,000 including housing etc. A captain who has been at EK 10 years (upgraded in about 3-4 years) takes home about 45,000 AED a month with flying pay.

If you want to include housing in your analysis then you have to also factor in things like the interest/income lost on the 30% you must put down for the house. The fact that the fees etc will require about 3 years of EK's contributions to break even. Add to this the volatile market and it becomes a real mugs game. Yes, if you bought 10 years ago then you may be ahead of the game - though a few guys who bought 9 years ago are STILL behind in value. Which shows just how tenuous the housing market here can be.

To truly compare 'pay' you should really be looking at what you take home versus what it costs you to live. EK will no longer compare to a US carrier.

Their new freighter deal doesn't even touch Korean or the Chinese.
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Old 6th Apr 2017, 10:25
  #62 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Been around the block
Posts: 588
It sounds like "productive" is a euphemism for working a lot. Pilot unions had to force companies to truly be productive. I.E. using your time away from home to operate the most hours in the shortest time. I found that outside the US, you may work more days but fly fewer hours. This also translates into less efficient aircraft and staff utilization. In other words, shitty(shittier) management.
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Old 6th Apr 2017, 10:40
  #63 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: overthere
Posts: 2,932
Thread drift...thread drift...thread drift.

Trader,

You have to remember that the money you use to pay off the house in DXB is money that you would otherwise not have access to. So your exposure is only the deposit, fees, and any investment you make in the property. So having paid the mortgage for a decade with basically free money, even if the property value has gone down, as long as the mortgage has decreased enough you may still be in front.
This is different to investing at home where its your after tax dollars that pay down the loan. Still takes some intestinal fortitude and not for the faint hearted.
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Old 6th Apr 2017, 10:46
  #64 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Earth
Posts: 33
After reading all the posts here on PPRuNe about EK, it seems it would be difficult to actually trust them and of course the freighter market that these conditions will stay the same?? as currently advertised! Looking at the freighter market trackrecord this in combination of EK's trackrecord you must ask yourself in the long term future if this offer would be acceptable? The freighter schedules are extremely volatile and you never know what you're up to. Combine this with the current volatility in the airline industry, this new offer might prove to be a recipe for a divorce if you're married with kids! I know it sounds to tempting. Perhaps something to take into consideration before signing up for this.
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Old 6th Apr 2017, 11:48
  #65 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: South of North
Posts: 656
don-- agree wholeheartedly. IF you stay for a longer period you should come out ahead. When I looked at it - and I looked hard since i very much wanted my own place - it didn't make sense.

I figured that at 2.4 million dhms (approx) or below it might have been a doable proposition. Beyond that it didn't make much financial sense, or at least, the break even vs risk was too high.

It takes almost 3 years EK payments less the mortgage, utilities, yearly fees etc to just cover the FEES associated with the purchase. After that the 180,000/year allowance has to be reduced by utilities, yearly fees, maintenance etc to be truly reflective of what you 'gain' in the end.

Today, if you buy a villa it will be in the neighborhood of $1 million US. Your $300,000 deposit would earn, conservatively, 5% invested anywhere else (not to mention the ability to invest that in a broad, diversified relatively risk free set of investments). That is another $15,000 US (50,000 dhm).

So if you plan to stay for a longer period of time then it may well make sense. Of course plans change and if you want to leave sooner then it may well cost you a bundle.
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Old 6th Apr 2017, 11:53
  #66 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: korea
Posts: 156
details out...basically 15% pay reduction, no provident fund, fixed and lower rate for housing, days off down route everything else the same.
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Old 6th Apr 2017, 11:57
  #67 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: london
Posts: 103
Originally Posted by allaru View Post
details out...basically 15% pay reduction, no provident fund, fixed and lower rate for housing, days off down route everything else the same.
Dont forget the kids education allowance ONLY paid if the attend in Dubai which for me is the BIGGEST joke of all... I guess older more senior guys whos kids have finished school it might be ok?? As crap as expected !!!!! One step fwd 3 steps back as usual with these snakes!!!!!!!!
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Old 6th Apr 2017, 12:08
  #68 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: overthere
Posts: 2,932
No provident fund, they encash any leave you have now, they give you a full 12 days leave per year after that. You get kicked out of company accommodation and get a reduced allowance instead. No education allowance for kids outside of DXB. And a 15% pay cut. And have paid sick leave reduced to 6 months.
Looks legit...should be a long line of applicants. Good work with this one TICH.
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Old 6th Apr 2017, 12:14
  #69 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: South of North
Posts: 656
As guessed. The 15% pay reduction is because you fly less (600 hours per year). The bean counters STILL do not get the concept that it is DAYS AT WORK that meter to a person. They want to pay you less for sitting somewhere in a hotel.

Won't even comment on the rest.
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Old 6th Apr 2017, 12:28
  #70 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Honkytown
Posts: 205
Originally Posted by donpizmeov View Post
No provident fund, they encash any leave you have now, they give you a full 12 days leave per year after that. You get kicked out of company accommodation and get a reduced allowance instead. No education allowance for kids outside of DXB. And a 15% pay cut. And have paid sick leave reduced to 6 months.
Looks legit...should be a long line of applicants. Good work with this one TICH.
Ouch.

They really can't help themselves. I reckon this had the potential to be a really easy fix to some of the problems. A win/win, if you like.
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Old 6th Apr 2017, 13:35
  #71 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: 149 Mil. Km from the sun
Posts: 39
I think this will be very difficult to swallow, even for the die-hard cargo chaps. An opportunity lost once again.
BTW.. Wasn't "April 1st" last week??
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Old 6th Apr 2017, 14:14
  #72 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: florida
Age: 39
Posts: 4
Originally Posted by UAL777 View Post
Give it a rest. You do not make more than EK 380 captains as a Delta 737 first officer. Do you make more than $230k a year tax free? I didn't think so. Now go back to airline pilot central and play your game there. You and your retarded buddy 80 knots clamp on APC are a joke.
I did make more than $230,000 last year, but it wasn't tax free. You win. Enjoy flying 2-3 times more than me for the same money. At least yours is tax free.
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Old 6th Apr 2017, 14:19
  #73 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: uk
Posts: 502
How are they consistently so unaware / lacking in eq, certainly when it comes to pilots? It is not difficult to understand why they are haemorrhaging pilots / not attracting any. It is quite simple: money or lifestyle. No money and no life equals no takers. Baffling.
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Old 6th Apr 2017, 15:08
  #74 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Eternal Beach
Posts: 1,071
They want this up and running by the 1st of June?

Tell 'em they're dream'n.

Quick figures works out at a loss to me of US$100,000+ per year.

My average days off last 12 months with leave is more than their total offer by 20 days.
Sure there will be many more days off both in DXB and down route.
That works out at 11 duties on per year with 8 days off. Total 88 days ( - 20 extra days off l have already) = US$1,470 per extra day off out of my pocket.

halas
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Old 6th Apr 2017, 15:37
  #75 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Houston
Posts: 21
The devil is in the details or lack thereof.

Not getting the provident fund is effectively a further 12% reduction in salary so you are actually looking at a 27% basic pay reduction.

To meet operational requirements, you can be assigned 2 blocks of 13 days off, which means they can then assign you 2 blocks of 28 days, in other words you can do a 56 day continuous block.

Days off can be assigned at outstation so theoretically you could leave Dubai on a duty and not return until the end of your duties, 28 or 56 days away.

A monthly accommodation allowance only, does that mean you won’t receive it when you are on your 13 or 26 day off block.

And so on...

Sorry but they can't be trusted.
Life Vest is offline  
Old 6th Apr 2017, 16:13
  #76 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Up in the air
Posts: 547
Originally Posted by Life Vest View Post
The devil is in the details or lack thereof.

Not getting the provident fund is effectively a further 12% reduction in salary so you are actually looking at a 27% basic pay reduction.
You can't just add 15%+12% and make it 27%. If you do the actual calculation it's closer to 24%. Considering EOSB adds 5.7% to the basic (for the first 5 years) the actual reduction is approximately 20%. Still not good though...
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Old 6th Apr 2017, 16:23
  #77 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Been around the block
Posts: 588
Originally Posted by UAL777 View Post
Give it a rest. You do not make more than EK 380 captains as a Delta 737 first officer. Do you make more than $230k a year tax free? I didn't think so. Now go back to airline pilot central and play your game there. You and your retarded buddy 80 knots clamp on APC are a joke.
There are Widget(Delta) FO's that are over 300k a year on narrow bodies. They have to pick up open time on occasion, but if you know how to work the contract and are flexible, it isn't difficult at all to make that. I don't make that much and I'm not rubbing it in anyone's face. I'm also not trying to insult a an EK guy. You guys deserve better. I want you to achieve better.
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Old 6th Apr 2017, 17:12
  #78 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: usa
Posts: 1,007
Thanks 4Runner & Co in US - that's all noted, now can we move on.

Right back to the 'Commuting roster'.

I'm genuinely concerned at the lack of connection to reality of this offer. I'm not not engaging in hyperbole here, I thought there would be a pseudo nickel & dime-ing, but it turned into a hatchet job.

These guys obviously have no idea of how restless the troops are. This was a great chance for them - nope, fail.

TICH really starting to hit his stride here.

I wonder how many of his turkeys will invite themselves to Easter dinner?
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Old 6th Apr 2017, 19:53
  #79 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: UAE
Posts: 203
The next Pilot Forum should be an interesting affair.
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Old 6th Apr 2017, 21:06
  #80 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Behind you
Age: 73
Posts: 227
Originally Posted by hockeypilot44 View Post
The regional jets was a major attack on our labor force. We have successfully won that battle. Regional first officers now start at $60,000 per year. It is now a stepping stone job to the legacies. I make more money in a year than an A380 captain at your airline and I'm a 737 first officer. I already knew that. What I didn't know was how few days off you guys get. I can't believe you would compare wages on a 70 seat aircraft against an international wide-body.
Hey, but you don't get to say
"Super" when you check in with ATC...

MS
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