End of FY2016-17
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End of FY2016-17
So, now the EK financial year has come to a close. Can't we have a little debate about the results and bonus (a.k.a profit share) just for laughs?
Will the figures be in red or black? Will there be a discretionary token payout as has happened before when the target wasn't met. What will the salary review look like?
Go ahead!
Will the figures be in red or black? Will there be a discretionary token payout as has happened before when the target wasn't met. What will the salary review look like?
Go ahead!
Judging by the lack of loading staff, crew buses and passenger bus drivers over the past 2 weeks or so it would appear that various dept heads have tried their best to "massage" the figures as much as possible.
It's just the typical mentality that exists in a place where ones sense of accomplishment and value is based purely on financial performance...never mind the 50 pax waiting 45 minutes for a bus, all of whom miss their connections.
It's just the typical mentality that exists in a place where ones sense of accomplishment and value is based purely on financial performance...never mind the 50 pax waiting 45 minutes for a bus, all of whom miss their connections.
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FG1 and CSVs forced back into shared accommodation, cabin crew now having to pay 30/10% (depending on hospital) of medical bills. The latter only effective from today though so no impact on last year...
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Heard on a flight recently we're talking about 1.5billion aed loss for this FY. This would tie in with the rumour that deliveries will be cancelled/postponed indefinitely and EK had to pay a penalty...
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EK is now caught between a rock and a hard place and they know it. Given the undoubtedly bad trading figures, redundancies, forced leave, unpaid cabin crew leave, parked/deferred A380's and pilot shortage, it will be difficult to justify a substantial across the board pay rise and discretionary bonus. But if they don't award front line staff a substantial pay rise and discretionary bonus as a first step in acknowledging they made mistakes and trying to put things right, then pilot attrition will worsen, pilot recruitment will continue to be 'challenging' and the master plan, along with brand image, will take yet more serious hits.
There comes a time when they have to stop saying 'we can't afford a pay rise' (and just expect us to suck it up) and have to acknowledge that they can't afford not to award a substantial payrise.
That time is now.
There comes a time when they have to stop saying 'we can't afford a pay rise' (and just expect us to suck it up) and have to acknowledge that they can't afford not to award a substantial payrise.
That time is now.
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The thread I wait for each year.
They will start jerking us off with teaser emails from whoever and rumors from "someone in the know" about this and that telling us to just hold on, it will get better, it's going to be great.
Then it will go past May with the email telling us pay is still under review, they will make you feel like there is some kind of internal turmoil between the good guys and bad guys, that will make you think there is hope and cause you to stay just a little bit longer and the next thing you know, summer is over, kids are in school and you are here for another year.
Anyhow, the way I see it:
Are they going to make a profit, mature airlines have good years and bad years and survive, just the nature of the game, my guess is that they will show a loss on the airline side for a few reasons that they just can't hide anymore, but who really cares, Shake Mo is going to get his "payment to the owner" from the group.
Token bonus, maybe, maybe not, but again, who really cares.
Now for the interesting one, pay raises,
This one has me a little stumped, as I have never seen an airline in this situation before, they are still growing, at least for now, flying wide body aircraft all over the world, yet losing their experienced pilots and can barely attack entry level pilots.
10%, that will not even get anyone's attention.
20%, might get a few to sit up and take notice, but I don't think that it will change the situation much.
30%, now you have people taking notice, don't get me wrong, I think that 30% just brings us back into the realm of being in the lower tier mature airlines pay with the amount of flying and general bull**** we put up with, but it makes you sit up a little straighter in your chair.
So, do they give 30%, no way, they might as well give us nothing and hope for the best, which seems to be the way things go around here.
They will start jerking us off with teaser emails from whoever and rumors from "someone in the know" about this and that telling us to just hold on, it will get better, it's going to be great.
Then it will go past May with the email telling us pay is still under review, they will make you feel like there is some kind of internal turmoil between the good guys and bad guys, that will make you think there is hope and cause you to stay just a little bit longer and the next thing you know, summer is over, kids are in school and you are here for another year.
Anyhow, the way I see it:
Are they going to make a profit, mature airlines have good years and bad years and survive, just the nature of the game, my guess is that they will show a loss on the airline side for a few reasons that they just can't hide anymore, but who really cares, Shake Mo is going to get his "payment to the owner" from the group.
Token bonus, maybe, maybe not, but again, who really cares.
Now for the interesting one, pay raises,
This one has me a little stumped, as I have never seen an airline in this situation before, they are still growing, at least for now, flying wide body aircraft all over the world, yet losing their experienced pilots and can barely attack entry level pilots.
10%, that will not even get anyone's attention.
20%, might get a few to sit up and take notice, but I don't think that it will change the situation much.
30%, now you have people taking notice, don't get me wrong, I think that 30% just brings us back into the realm of being in the lower tier mature airlines pay with the amount of flying and general bull**** we put up with, but it makes you sit up a little straighter in your chair.
So, do they give 30%, no way, they might as well give us nothing and hope for the best, which seems to be the way things go around here.
Last edited by north flyer; 1st Apr 2017 at 11:16.
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Pay raise.
To put it in historical perspective - Pay increases /bonus since 2000.
I have combined step or lack thereof in the increase number and called it an increase for simplicity (yes I know step is not an increase)
I do not have profit share or Edu support allowance numbers from 2000-2007.
2000-2007 numbers were provided by a colleague
Month/ Year
05/00
3%
05/01
5%
05/02
6%
05/03
3%
05/04
5%
05/05
11%
05/06
10%
05/07
9%
Pay raise/profit share/Edu/housing since May 2008
05/08
12% 14 wks
05/09
0% 0 wks - GF Crisis (OT thresh 78-92)
05/10
6% 3wks
05/11 (edu fund 32-40/54-60)
8% 12wks
05/12
3%
05/13 (edu fund 40-42/60-63)
3.5%
05/14 (staff travel erosion)
3% 3wks (edu 42-46/63-70)
housing up to16075pm for CAPTs
05/15
3% 9wks (edu 46-47.5/70-72.5)
OT thresh 88h
05/16
3% 5wks (Steps + for Snr Capts, flying pay +,ground pay, sim pay)
2016/17 target 7.2bn (Live out cancelled / level 2 pay scales intro)
(1st half 1.3 achieved)
I expect annual profit # of around 2.5-2.8bn for group.
Pay raise ? Well if it's not significant- we are reminded once again that they don't get it. I doubt I'll be surprised.
But what's most depressing is that we took a 15% pay cut due OT ^ in 2009. Since then we have had a 0.5% increase in pay. Even if you take the OT 92 to 88hrs as a 4% pay raise - our salaries are down 10.5% since 2009 if you generously assume that inflation is avg fixed is 3% (*note the 6% in 2010 - 3% of that not considered a raise as it covered the 0 step owed from 2009)
And that ladies and gents is an absolute f+*#%+^g disgrace. I haven't even figured days off reduction into the equation
TICH and higher up better wake up - and understand that the above is not negative spin - it is what it is.
And if it doesn't change in the face of VAT - attrition will increase even more.
To put it in historical perspective - Pay increases /bonus since 2000.
I have combined step or lack thereof in the increase number and called it an increase for simplicity (yes I know step is not an increase)
I do not have profit share or Edu support allowance numbers from 2000-2007.
2000-2007 numbers were provided by a colleague
Month/ Year
05/00
3%
05/01
5%
05/02
6%
05/03
3%
05/04
5%
05/05
11%
05/06
10%
05/07
9%
Pay raise/profit share/Edu/housing since May 2008
05/08
12% 14 wks
05/09
0% 0 wks - GF Crisis (OT thresh 78-92)
05/10
6% 3wks
05/11 (edu fund 32-40/54-60)
8% 12wks
05/12
3%
05/13 (edu fund 40-42/60-63)
3.5%
05/14 (staff travel erosion)
3% 3wks (edu 42-46/63-70)
housing up to16075pm for CAPTs
05/15
3% 9wks (edu 46-47.5/70-72.5)
OT thresh 88h
05/16
3% 5wks (Steps + for Snr Capts, flying pay +,ground pay, sim pay)
2016/17 target 7.2bn (Live out cancelled / level 2 pay scales intro)
(1st half 1.3 achieved)
I expect annual profit # of around 2.5-2.8bn for group.
Pay raise ? Well if it's not significant- we are reminded once again that they don't get it. I doubt I'll be surprised.
But what's most depressing is that we took a 15% pay cut due OT ^ in 2009. Since then we have had a 0.5% increase in pay. Even if you take the OT 92 to 88hrs as a 4% pay raise - our salaries are down 10.5% since 2009 if you generously assume that inflation is avg fixed is 3% (*note the 6% in 2010 - 3% of that not considered a raise as it covered the 0 step owed from 2009)
And that ladies and gents is an absolute f+*#%+^g disgrace. I haven't even figured days off reduction into the equation
TICH and higher up better wake up - and understand that the above is not negative spin - it is what it is.
And if it doesn't change in the face of VAT - attrition will increase even more.
Last edited by fliion; 1st Apr 2017 at 13:21.
A major roadshow campaign has just completed trying to get more pilots. If they were about to enhance any package it would have been detailed before them to better bait the trap.
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Or maybe this last round if roadshow was to see what they could get before thorowing in any improvement.
And for what it seems it has been a complete failure........that means they have no excuses anymore......
And for what it seems it has been a complete failure........that means they have no excuses anymore......
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If one thinks that there will be any pay raise (step excluded) and/or any profit share (when no profit made, what's to share) they better check that shisha to ensure no extra "herbs" are in it.
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It's not true that no-one turned up at the roadshows. I spoke to somebody who attended the MAN roadshow hosted by the FO on maternity leave and a girl from HR.
There were a few Stobart Air FOs who were short of hours, a couple of guys with the hours but not really interested in the job just there to hear the details from the horse's mouth so to speak. And also one older guy who had 800 hours total time instructing PPLs.
Whether that's the demographic they're targeting remains to be seen, but they may just be glad to put bums on FD seats in the short term until Mueller's consolidation of fleet and routes has taken place and there is a clearer picture on numbers / experience levels needed for the long term.
There were a few Stobart Air FOs who were short of hours, a couple of guys with the hours but not really interested in the job just there to hear the details from the horse's mouth so to speak. And also one older guy who had 800 hours total time instructing PPLs.
Whether that's the demographic they're targeting remains to be seen, but they may just be glad to put bums on FD seats in the short term until Mueller's consolidation of fleet and routes has taken place and there is a clearer picture on numbers / experience levels needed for the long term.
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Not their fault though, surely? It's probably the first time a major airline has taken low-hour TP guys straight onto 350 ton jets. I'd hope there would be a special plan in place to allow for a long training period to ease them into the vastly different environment. Poor line trainers must feel the pressure a bit?