Has EK been the worst decision ever?
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NS
By a factor of ten? You don't need to justify the move for our sake, just your own. As I said, I'm happy for you and glad it's working.
Captain Chipotle
Jaded? Not at all. I'm not the defender of all EK by a long mark but try to keep it real. What I do find jaded is the constant negativity by certain individuals who, several years later, are still here. If they're really that unhappy, why stay? As for my 'long list of previous ****ty airlines', there were two, both of which were anything but ****ty. And what's your point? Do we not try to better ourselves in our careers and move on or is the idea to start at the best and work backwards? Your post would imply so. 15 years ago, EK was very different regarding work schedules than now, but that can be said of the vast majority of other airlines too. Not for one minute do I think any Delta pilot is enjoying a package nowadays that is superior to his former colleagues 30 years ago. The question would be whether, if we could turn back the clock, how many of us would apply to EK again. I'm sure many would say no but there are still a large number where life has worked well for them here. It is my experience that overall, the guys from the US have been the most unsettled which is probably why we're seeing so many return. And why not. Union protection, less flying hours, guaranteed upgrades with no convoluted upgrade process to follow, happy wives near family and best of all, back home in the good ol' US of A. If that works for you and it's the long term goal, great.
As for the ALT argument, you could argue that regardless of what's happening in the cabin, as long as my salary is paid and my terms and conditions are good, I couldn't care less. Right? Well, that's where EK was 15 years ago and now look at us. Arrogance and complacency has resulted in this current debacle and it's going to be a few years before we recover. It has to, because it's simply unsustainable currently. My point was that if Delta don't up their game, the public will vote with their feet. Isn't that happening to us with Qatar and the unmentionables? Is Delta not also in the fight with 2 big other majors as well as numerous low costs that are offering far better service in the main cabin. When you pay $2400 for a four hour flight, you do expect a little more than coffee. Next time it will be Jet Blue without a doubt.
Tineetim
How perceptive. That's just the point, I was expecting fillet mignon but got ****e. When will you be leaving anyway, or are you too stuck here slaving out a meagre living?
Keepitreal
I agree, although at least we can leave here with the provident fund in our hands and not in the hands of the CEO's golden handshake packages and spent re branding and painting 400 aircraft like Delta. There can be very few pilots in this airline who find the current schedules easy, apart from a few exceptions maybe on the 380. Boeing is undoubtedly harder with hours and combined night turns and ULR but colleagues on the 380 are also suffering effects of constant ULR's with 48 hr layovers and East West variations. This is why it's got to change. And also why pilots are leaving and hardly anybody is applying!
Harry
By a factor of ten? You don't need to justify the move for our sake, just your own. As I said, I'm happy for you and glad it's working.
Captain Chipotle
Jaded? Not at all. I'm not the defender of all EK by a long mark but try to keep it real. What I do find jaded is the constant negativity by certain individuals who, several years later, are still here. If they're really that unhappy, why stay? As for my 'long list of previous ****ty airlines', there were two, both of which were anything but ****ty. And what's your point? Do we not try to better ourselves in our careers and move on or is the idea to start at the best and work backwards? Your post would imply so. 15 years ago, EK was very different regarding work schedules than now, but that can be said of the vast majority of other airlines too. Not for one minute do I think any Delta pilot is enjoying a package nowadays that is superior to his former colleagues 30 years ago. The question would be whether, if we could turn back the clock, how many of us would apply to EK again. I'm sure many would say no but there are still a large number where life has worked well for them here. It is my experience that overall, the guys from the US have been the most unsettled which is probably why we're seeing so many return. And why not. Union protection, less flying hours, guaranteed upgrades with no convoluted upgrade process to follow, happy wives near family and best of all, back home in the good ol' US of A. If that works for you and it's the long term goal, great.
As for the ALT argument, you could argue that regardless of what's happening in the cabin, as long as my salary is paid and my terms and conditions are good, I couldn't care less. Right? Well, that's where EK was 15 years ago and now look at us. Arrogance and complacency has resulted in this current debacle and it's going to be a few years before we recover. It has to, because it's simply unsustainable currently. My point was that if Delta don't up their game, the public will vote with their feet. Isn't that happening to us with Qatar and the unmentionables? Is Delta not also in the fight with 2 big other majors as well as numerous low costs that are offering far better service in the main cabin. When you pay $2400 for a four hour flight, you do expect a little more than coffee. Next time it will be Jet Blue without a doubt.
Tineetim
How perceptive. That's just the point, I was expecting fillet mignon but got ****e. When will you be leaving anyway, or are you too stuck here slaving out a meagre living?
Keepitreal
I agree, although at least we can leave here with the provident fund in our hands and not in the hands of the CEO's golden handshake packages and spent re branding and painting 400 aircraft like Delta. There can be very few pilots in this airline who find the current schedules easy, apart from a few exceptions maybe on the 380. Boeing is undoubtedly harder with hours and combined night turns and ULR but colleagues on the 380 are also suffering effects of constant ULR's with 48 hr layovers and East West variations. This is why it's got to change. And also why pilots are leaving and hardly anybody is applying!
Harry
Last edited by harry the cod; 8th Mar 2017 at 11:16.
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Pilots have always been a selfish bunch of individuals. If you think it's unique to the ME, then you're being very naive.
And in case you didn't realise, we don't have unions here!
Harry
And in case you didn't realise, we don't have unions here!
Harry
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From the same people that brought you Level 2 pay...latest rumour is that due to recruiting problems, low houred pilots will be hired to the 777, 777 FOs will be transferred to the 380. 380 FOs will be upgraded, and 380 Capts swapped to the 777.
This 777 FO ain't happy.
This 777 FO ain't happy.
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Tich, which low houred pilots? Turboprop candidates pool is pretty much finito.
The big group hired in 2010 is reaching the 7 years this year. Their exodus is beginning as we speak. The 2011 guys are sending out cv's excited to leave as well. There will be a huge vacuum in the left hand seat on both types.
Pretty much every other airline sees this and tries to catch as many as they can by sending roadshows to this area, a lot with the lifestyle option in place.
Emirates is Emirates and sticking their head just a bit deeper in the sand, pretending everything is alright. Not trying to keep the present workforce in place.
Arrogancy is killing this airline...
The big group hired in 2010 is reaching the 7 years this year. Their exodus is beginning as we speak. The 2011 guys are sending out cv's excited to leave as well. There will be a huge vacuum in the left hand seat on both types.
Pretty much every other airline sees this and tries to catch as many as they can by sending roadshows to this area, a lot with the lifestyle option in place.
Emirates is Emirates and sticking their head just a bit deeper in the sand, pretending everything is alright. Not trying to keep the present workforce in place.
Arrogancy is killing this airline...
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Five Year and 7 year milestones...they are coming
There have always been two important milestones in terms of time for EK pilots:
5 years:
This marks the end of the training bond timeline meaning pilots can resign without forking money over to pay off any remaining balance.
Many of our colleagues have now reached that point.
7 years:
100% payout of the provident.
Keep in mind that schools in Dubai have already been given the approval to increase fees (approved in February) by between 3% and 5%.
Transport companies have also been given the OK to increase their fees by similar amounts.
Remember, the best deal you will ever get in Dubai is the one you receive on the day you arrive.
It does not get any better with time or by upgrade to the left seat.
5 years:
This marks the end of the training bond timeline meaning pilots can resign without forking money over to pay off any remaining balance.
Many of our colleagues have now reached that point.
7 years:
100% payout of the provident.
Keep in mind that schools in Dubai have already been given the approval to increase fees (approved in February) by between 3% and 5%.
Transport companies have also been given the OK to increase their fees by similar amounts.
Remember, the best deal you will ever get in Dubai is the one you receive on the day you arrive.
It does not get any better with time or by upgrade to the left seat.
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There have always been two important milestones in terms of time for EK pilots:
5 years:
This marks the end of the training bond timeline meaning pilots can resign without forking money over to pay off any remaining balance.
Many of our colleagues have now reached that point.
7 years:
100% payout of the provident.
Keep in mind that schools in Dubai have already been given the approval to increase fees (approved in February) by between 3% and 5%.
Transport companies have also been given the OK to increase their fees by similar amounts.
Remember, the best deal you will ever get in Dubai is the one you receive on the day you arrive.
It does not get any better with time or by upgrade to the left seat.
5 years:
This marks the end of the training bond timeline meaning pilots can resign without forking money over to pay off any remaining balance.
Many of our colleagues have now reached that point.
7 years:
100% payout of the provident.
Keep in mind that schools in Dubai have already been given the approval to increase fees (approved in February) by between 3% and 5%.
Transport companies have also been given the OK to increase their fees by similar amounts.
Remember, the best deal you will ever get in Dubai is the one you receive on the day you arrive.
It does not get any better with time or by upgrade to the left seat.
The training bond was only recently extended from three to five years. But 5 years is significant for the Prov Fund too as it is when you get 75% of the company contribution and 100% of your own contribution.
Most people I talk to will wait for the 7 year point if they are already close to it but the 5 year point is not really a deal breaker.
In short, I agree. Emirates crewing problems are about to get a whole lot worse.
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And even admitted to, by some 3rd floor dwellers. They know the end of the school year approaches. They are expecting a pretty hefty exodus. But who would know with a hidden seniority list?
Thread Starter
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The individual who I started this thread about us been interviewed and offered a job as a pilot here. Nothing set in stone yet, but it sounds like he intends to accept the offer, and stick around for 5-10 years.
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24 years and single, why not. EK isn't the worst deal on earth.
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The amount of junk emails I'm getting from both QR and EK asking me to apply because I'd shown some interest in the dim and distant passed but had since said I was not interested seems to be just one sign of the carriers finding it harder and harder to recruit.
Each time I visit Dubai friends seem to be more and more demoralised and bitter about it. Last visit included one friend who had just got his 777 command a month earlier but was already fed up by it and just waiting to have the experience (and presumably 7 years) to leave.
Each time I visit Dubai friends seem to be more and more demoralised and bitter about it. Last visit included one friend who had just got his 777 command a month earlier but was already fed up by it and just waiting to have the experience (and presumably 7 years) to leave.
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Thread Starter
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They're saying they want him in Dubai basically immediately, and expect to have him flying no sooner than six and no longer than ten months. Is training that backed up??
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Is training that backed up??