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Has EK been the worst decision ever?

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Has EK been the worst decision ever?

Old 5th Feb 2017, 21:27
  #61 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: DXB
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Originally Posted by polax52 View Post
Anson: In the Airline world simply put over the span of a Pilot career; Salary+pension versus days in uniform is better at Unionised U.S. carriers than anywhere else.
Is that a true statement for all the guys who lost their pension after the 911 airline crisis?
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Old 5th Feb 2017, 21:32
  #62 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
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Well in my experience: even after bankruptcy and furlough it is still a true statement, I've worked in Europe, China, the middle east and the U.S.
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Old 6th Feb 2017, 03:10
  #63 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
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Originally Posted by polax52 View Post
Well in my experience: even after bankruptcy and furlough it is still a true statement, I've worked in Europe, China, the middle east and the U.S.
... but I bet you haven't lost your ENTIRE pension, as some of our more "at age" colleagues from the US have!

BOF
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Old 6th Feb 2017, 17:40
  #64 (permalink)  
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Well, he applied 05 Jan, at 24 years old, 2600 hours, and his app made it through and he's been invited for an interview in Dubai. Think we're hard pressed to find pilots???
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Old 6th Feb 2017, 19:57
  #65 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
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Originally Posted by A6EchoEchoUniform View Post
Well, he applied 05 Jan, at 24 years old, 2600 hours, and his app made it through and he's been invited for an interview in Dubai. Think we're hard pressed to find pilots???
Amazing! I personally feel a career at EK is far better than any of the US3. Additionally, a 24 year old with 2600 hours has little to no chance of getting an interview invite at any of the US3. He should go for it and never look back.
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Old 6th Feb 2017, 21:00
  #66 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
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Said the person that's never worked at EK?
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Old 6th Feb 2017, 21:31
  #67 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
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Originally Posted by polax52 View Post
Anson: In the Airline world simply put over the span of a Pilot career; Salary+pension versus days in uniform is better at Unionised U.S. carriers than anywhere else.
None of the US3 have pensions anymore.
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Old 6th Feb 2017, 22:25
  #68 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
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In the old days you retired from British Airways at 55 on a full pension.
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Old 7th Feb 2017, 07:43
  #69 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
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And therein Metro man, lies the rub. The industry today is NOT what it was 'in the old days'.

50 years ago, the likes of PanAm, TWA, BOAC, Cathay etc provided a career and lifestyle very different to what even the best today can offer. Senior Captains did indeed retire at 55, often on full pensions. Those that were on wife number 4 had no trouble finding work in the independents. Nowdays, the glamour, security and financial benefits are very different, especially with the likes of Ryanair around. The games changed. Airlines are run by accountants today, not eccentric billionaires, flamboyant CEO's, playboys or government corporations.

For every unhappy pilot in EK, I'll find you one in BA. For every unhappy one in BA, they'll find you one in Delta....and Southwest and Jet Blue and Cathay and Malaysian and Qantas. We're pilots. We moan and complain and we're famous for it. The US pilots may well be in a good place for now but they weren't a few years back. Many pilots lost their livelihood, many senior guys lost jobs and pensions. All of it. Many were furloughed and there's a lot of guys and girls struggling at the foot of this industry trying to survive on $20,000 a year. For the responsibility the job entails, that's criminal in my opinion. Some Pilots, it would appear, have short memories.

Very few, if any airlines, now provide full pilot sponsorships. Even BA will be stopping theirs soon. They'll accept you for a course, but you'll be paying for it all yourself. That's 100,000. 5 years ago, the airline paid.

So, while the thread may well be asking a very valid question, we'll never really know whether it was the right move or not until the day we hang up our flying goggles for the last time. From the comfort of your armchair, as you stare out the window with brandy in hand, only then will you be truly in a position to look back on your entire career and answer that question.

Of course, the quality of the brandy and the view out of the window will answer that question for you!

Harry
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Old 7th Feb 2017, 09:13
  #70 (permalink)  
 
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And that Harry sums it up very well👍🏻
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Old 7th Feb 2017, 10:54
  #71 (permalink)  
 
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...assuming you make it to the chair
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Old 7th Feb 2017, 11:33
  #72 (permalink)  
 
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Not trying to point fingers but notable of these american guys are getting hired by the big airlines, if fact some have failed and sit here at EK now with their tail between their legs. PPRuNe has become to much EK us US . Time to move on, bigger problems ahead for some.
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Old 7th Feb 2017, 12:09
  #73 (permalink)  
 
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Speaking of the good old days, a Captain at a major airline would be drawing his pension with around 20 000hrs in his logbook. I'm still a good fifteen years off getting my tie cut in half and being pushed out of the crew room in a wheelchair but will crack my 20k later this year.

With current flight time limitations, sorry TARGETS, I can expect to retire in the low to mid 30k hour range with no pension.

My various employers will have extracted nearly twice as much work out of me and paid me a lot less over the course of my career.
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Old 7th Feb 2017, 13:34
  #74 (permalink)  
 
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fliion

Absolutely true. Don't know exact figures off the top of my head but several studies into airline pilot retirees has highlighted the difference in life expectancy based on retirement age. Something like 20 years + if you finish at 55, only 2-3 years of retirement if you leave it till 65.

It's those last 10 years that kill you and with the current EASA FTL's debacle, it's only going to get worse.

Still, I guess not having much of a pension will be irrelevant if you only need it for a few years!

Harry
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Old 7th Feb 2017, 14:54
  #75 (permalink)  
 
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Nice try Harry. Keep it up.
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Old 8th Feb 2017, 05:43
  #76 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by harry the cod View Post
fliion

Absolutely true. Don't know exact figures off the top of my head but several studies into airline pilot retirees has highlighted the difference in life expectancy based on retirement age. Something like 20 years + if you finish at 55, only 2-3 years of retirement if you leave it till 65.

It's those last 10 years that kill you and with the current EASA FTL's debacle, it's only going to get worse.

Still, I guess not having much of a pension will be irrelevant if you only need it for a few years!

Harry
Alpa did a study back when the age 60 rule was being challenged. Stanford compiled the data from all major global airlines, factored BA and CP that retired pilots @55. Results based on 78 hrs per month, basically every year that you worked past 59 took a year off your expiration date. Two traps, 63-67, and 72-76, if you made it past those odds were those of an average longevity curve. Sadly only 36 per cent make it, this job with these hours will simply kill you, do the math. Leave as soon as you can afford to is my advice.
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Old 8th Feb 2017, 07:23
  #77 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
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Not a bad option for the short-term

Worst decision? Not at all.

Emirates was, for me, a really interesting blip in my career. If you want to see the world in new aeroplanes and fly for a highly organised institution and be relatively well remunerated, it's a pretty good option. The tricky question is : is it sustainable? Just like many low cost airlines, Emirates will f*ck your life expectancy in return for the experience it offers you.

If you can afford to try Emirates for a few years for the experience, I would highly recommend it. If you join expecting it to be a long-term option, I would encourage you to re-read these threads.
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Old 8th Feb 2017, 12:25
  #78 (permalink)  
 
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Back in the old days aircraft didn't have the range and endurance they have today. A LHR - SYD flight would involve three stop overs with rest periods enroute and a longer time at destination, BA even had pilot postings.

These days 14 hour legs are quite normal rather than 8 hour ones. Time down route is minimised and 900 - 1000 hrs a year is expected rather than 600.

The figures given are for previous generations of Pilots who didn't work as hard. It would be frightening to see our figures in 30 years time.

Airlines could afford to offer a generous pension to those retiring at 65 as they wouldn't be paying out very much.
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Old 8th Feb 2017, 18:20
  #79 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: washington
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And none the guys in the study control group did any polar routes. As this post has eluded to, Emirates is what you make it, good or bad the hours and fatique is having an effect on our lives. May we all be blessed with good genes and a better life insurance policy. And don't forget the previous gen were pretty heavy smokers, and maybe had a bit more alcohol consumption on the 72 hr layovers!

Last edited by guts; 8th Feb 2017 at 19:09. Reason: added a last line
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Old 8th Feb 2017, 18:57
  #80 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: UAE
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Highly organized institution ?? Surely you jest ! Wherever did you work prior to joining EK ?
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